Wiggy Signs! 'Stros Make Offers to Others

by Stros Bro on Jan 18, 2008 7:52 PM CST in News Comment 27 comments

The Astros avoided arbitration with third baseman Ty Wigginton by signing him to a one-year contract worth $4.35 million, plus incentives, on Friday. The club also exchanged salary figures with their four remaining arbitration-eligible players.

Right-hander Dave Borkowski is asking for $1.1 million and the club is offering $750,000, with a midway point of $925,000. Borkowski earned $575,000 in 2007.

Right-hander Geoff Geary is asking for $1.25 million, and the Astros are countering with $950,000. The midway point is $1.1 million. The reliever earned $837,500 last year.

Veteran infielder Mark Loretta is asking for $4.9 million, while the club is offering $2.75 million. The midway point is $3.825 million. Loretta earned $2.5 million after signing as a free agent last year.

Closer Jose Valverde is asking for $6.2 million, with the Astros countering with $4.7 million. The midway point is $5.45 million. Valverde earned $2 million in his first year of arbitration with the D-backs last year.

I'm good with what they signed Wiggy for, seems fair to me. Hopefully he earns more through performance. I think the 1.1 million that Borkowski is asking for is a little high and I don't think that he is worth more than Backe is...

No real comments about anyone else. I'm pretty sure all will get signed; none really look like they and the Astros are too far off on their numbers. The biggest difference is with Loretta who is asking for $2.5 million more than the Astros have offered... If they go to arbitration, I think he'll probably get what he is asking, althrough I doubt any will actually go to arbitration.

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I am basically ignorant

of how this stuff works, but it does surprise me that a guy with an ERA of 5.15 and a WHIP of 1.53 would be looking to essentially double his salary. I like Borkowski and all, but that does seem a bit over the top. Valverde led the NL in saves last year, so not too surprising that he'd see a jump.

I also was surprised at the differential in numbers for Loretta, but didn't he take less money to come here originally? I seem to recall his turning down some higher offers to sign here. Maybe he hopes to make that up.

by Danyah on Jan 18, 2008 8:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

If I remember correctly

he did take a little less to come here and play for the 'Stros, but I think that had a lot to do with being recruited(I think by Ausmus, maybe Roy-O as well) and also he figured he'd get more playing time here.

If you look at Loretta's stats(avg mainly), you'd think the guy would easily make 6-7 mil a year... dude just doesn't hit for extra bases at all...

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 18, 2008 8:33 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I would hope

that performance can now be interpreted in other ways than avg especially for a guy with no speed. As a player that shouldn't see more than 150 ab's I think his salary will be over-value in any case. Loretta is a bum. The Astros took a gamble on offering him arb and they lost. I think it was a decent gamble though. I think that he would have taken a little less to get a starter job and Ed was hoping someone would bite.

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Jan 19, 2008 1:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

well..

What I was trying to say(that I didn't a bad job of doing), was that most career .298 avg players, would get a better salary than what he gets.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 19, 2008 6:06 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I have heard....

that arbitrators only look at very basic performance stats like batting average, runs, RBIs, etc. No newfangled stuff like OPS. The arbitrators are not baseball experts, and in fact may know very little about baseball.

by clack on Jan 19, 2008 7:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My understanding...

is that arbitration awards for a free agent (Loretta) are based on different benchmarks than awards for players who are still under team control. Loretta's salary amounts will be judged by what similar free agents are getting on the open market. I would think $4 million or more is approximately what a decent veteran infielder would get as a free agent, so the Astros' offer seems very low to me.

Arbitration awards for players under team control are judged by contracts of similar players in the same stage of team control (e.g., 1st or 2d year arbitration eligibility, etc.). The player's previous year performance is not the only criteria. My recollection is that two or three years of previous performance is considered, which would help Borkowski. Plus, I think there is an assumption that salaries progress to higher levels as they move to later years of eligibility.

by clack on Jan 19, 2008 12:11 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not an expert on arbitration, but I thought

when a team offers arbitration and the player agrees, both are obligated to go through the process and agree to be bound by the results, with the arbitrator limited picking one of the two figures, and nothing in between. I didn't think the player could be traded or could negotiate a deal with another team until the process ended, and the arbitrator's salary decision becomes binding upon the league and the player for the coming season.

If that is true, the Astros WILL sign all of the arbitration eligible players after the arbitration hearings, and WILL keep them for 2008 unless some other team agrees to take on the player's salary in place of whatever deal can be made. Does anyone know the exact details?

Don't ever lie to Congress; you can't beat them at their own game.

by bwhite2323 on Jan 18, 2008 9:54 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yea pretty much

basically, the player and the team agree to arbitration and then schedule an arbitration hearing. Before the hearing, the club and the player have the right to try and get a contract settled without going to the hearing. If they get the contract settled beforehand, then there is no hearing. If they do not get the contract settled before the hearing, the club and the player bring their proposed salary. The arbitrator decides which one to use. They will either chose the players salary, or the clubs salary offer. Whichever one the arbitrator choses, the club pays for a 1 year salary.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 18, 2008 10:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So how about an arbitration poll

where we all get to vote on whether we think the players in question will get their asking price or the Astros' offer? It would be interesting to see how close we as a group get to the final results.

Don't ever lie to Congress; you can't beat them at their own game.

by bwhite2323 on Jan 19, 2008 12:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Ask and you shall receive

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 19, 2008 3:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately

the poll isn't allowing multiple selections though.. so, not going to be real accurate.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 19, 2008 3:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

THANKS!

No problem - I believe we can vote multiple times, so can cast a vote for each player we think will get his asking price.

Don't ever lie to Congress; you can't beat them at their own game.

by bwhite2323 on Jan 19, 2008 6:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Geary signed

for $1.125 million, just above the midway point mentioned above. So that just leaves Borks, Valverde, and Loretta.

by Danyah on Jan 19, 2008 4:01 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

Did y'all see this?

by Danyah on Jan 20, 2008 7:19 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Nice Move...

this probably saved the rockies some money down the line.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 20, 2008 7:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

just makes me wonder if we should think about doing the same thing with Pence?

by Danyah on Jan 20, 2008 7:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure I like the deal

No matter how good a rookie season a guy has, I would be hesitant to hand out these kind of deals. There have been enough "flash in the pans" to know that guys sometimes cannot repeat great rookie seasons. (And that isn't even mentioning the young players who get injured and never play like they did before.) They are buying out years in which Tulo isn't even arbitration eligible. My cautious side would tell me that the team should see if the young player can repeat his performance, and wait until he is about to become arbitration eligible before entering into a long term contract. But, hey, it's the Rockies' money, they can do what they want.

by clack on Jan 20, 2008 9:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Your argument

makes perfect sense to me. But since the DBacks and Rox seem to get a lot of press as being "forward thinking," I thought maybe I was missing something. (Of course, I don't think the Rox got that press until last year. Before that they were just ignored, like us. Although we're not being ignored anymore, thanks to the Tejada deal and his investigation by the feds.)

by Danyah on Jan 21, 2008 8:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I am ok with the deal

for Tulo but I would be cautious. He is just a rookie with a sensational glove but he does not hit outside of Coors - his road splits are right along with Jason Bartlett.
Having said that he is young with plenty of talent and room to improve with the stick. I am not sure how much better his glove because he was so damned good start.
I want to see one more year out of Pence with some solid numbers before I gave him that type of deal.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Jan 21, 2008 4:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

yup

thats exactly what I was thinking. I mean if you do it 2 years in a row, then you are atleast worth getting paid.

by TimStros on Jan 22, 2008 3:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Borkowski signed....

for $800k and avoided arbitration.

by clack on Jan 22, 2008 8:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like

the Astros are going to arbitration The Hun and T-Purp seemed to put an emphasis on NOT going to arb with anybody, but Wade seems to have a different philosophy. I wonder if the numbers can/will be revised before the hearing. While the players' numbers seem a bit high, the club's numbers seem a bit low. I hope he's right in that there are no hard feelings with the playrs. I'm not concerned about Loretta, but Valverde seems like an emotional guy. Seems like the kind of guy who would perform better when he feels like he's being treated justly and fairly. What do I know? Maybe I just bought into all the previous regimes' talk about avoiding arbitration.

by littlevisigoth on Jan 24, 2008 9:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

No revisions...

before the arbitration hearing; both sides are stuck with their positions. You have presented some reasonable concerns, particularly with respect to Valverde. I'm not privy to any inside information and so I can't see the eventual strategy. But at least on the surface it does appear that Wade has changed the Astros' normal approach to arbitration.

by clack on Jan 24, 2008 1:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Just guessing here...

but since Wade wants the Astros to remain "men of their words" and go to arbitration... I'm guessing Valverde gets his number and Loretta gets the clubs's number.

No inside information, just guessing.

by TexSkins on Jan 24, 2008 1:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I'm with you...

and I wonder if this all but kills the chances of resigning him next year.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jan 24, 2008 7:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Valverde...

has another year of arbitration eligibility in 09. Maybe the Astros aren't expecting to keep him after that.

by clack on Jan 25, 2008 5:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I hope so

I think the closer is the most overrated position on a baseball team. There is no way they are worth the 10-12 million they are getting now.

I hope Estrada gets his debut this year. I think he is the best option at closer after Valverde

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Jan 25, 2008 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

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