Astros - A New Era Begins - The Crawfish Boxes

Astros - A New Era Begins

by Stros Bro on Dec 15, 2007 12:45 PM CST in News Comment 40 comments

The whole "A New Era Begins" is courtesy of Joe in Birmingham(from here)... It's true... from looking at the 40 man roster, I only show 18 Astros that even have numbers assigned to them. Thinking I'm kidding? Look for yourself.

Wade has really done some work... I just hope he's working smart and not just working hard. Wade has gotten rid of a ton of players from our roster last year and unfortunately, hasn't upgraded our weakest department yet(starting pitching). Then I see this from Wade...

Wade surmised that he is likely done making moves on the trade front, but he's still working on a couple of free agent starting pitchers. He was hoping to sign Glendon Rusch, who instead went to the Padres.

"There are a couple other people we're talking to and I think there will be an opportunity to add volume to mix and quality, as well."

From here.

So free agency aye? That's cool and all, but then I look at the list of free agent starting pitchers and I don't really see anyone that makes me feel all nummy inside. The only real addition to our starting pitchers is the Backe, who really isn't an addition, just should be completely recovered from his Tommy John surgery.

0 recs | Comment 40 comments

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Starting Pitch

So free agency aye? That's cool and all, but then I look at the list of free agent starting pitchers and I don't really see anyone that makes me feel all nummy inside.

Whuff, that's the truth. After looking at that list, I'm sad to say that Jason Jennings looks like the best prospect! I feel like I need to burn my clothes and wash with lye after having said that.

None of those guys left are sure to be better than what we already have, and they would assuredly be more expensive.

I do see Ed Wade having chatted up Eric Milton in the past. Don't be surprised if we some activity there.

by pel on Dec 15, 2007 1:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

I believe only 10 of the players were on the 25-man roster on Opening Day last year.

Lee, Pence, Scott in '08

by entropic soul on Dec 15, 2007 1:35 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Entropic...

Hey buddy, you need to update your tag line there.

Lee, Pence, HGH in '08?

by pel on Dec 15, 2007 1:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hahaha! Brilliant

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 15, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Gotcha

Lee, Pence, HGH in '08

by entropic soul on Dec 15, 2007 6:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Starters

Hitters 24th in Runs scored, relievers 24th in runs allowed...starters 21st in runs allowed. Yep, works done.

Ed Wade betting the farm in 08

by DClisa on Dec 15, 2007 2:44 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Jennings, Fogg, Silva maybe...

but I think I'd rather see a bunch of young players from inside the organization.

I know everyone here will hate me for saying it, but I think Jennings might be a good flier pickup. All the other FAs on that list who have actually signed all got 1 year deals. A 1 year, incentive deal for Jennings wouldn't be a bad idea.

Or maybe I'm just dumb.

by TexSkins on Dec 15, 2007 2:49 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't be

totally against that... Say 1 million + incentives with a club option for the 2nd year.. But no way that would get signed by Jennings... He'll probably still get a 1 year 6+ million from someone

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 15, 2007 2:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Should I make anything of the fact...

that Sampson is in the bullpen and Paulino is the 5th starter according to the Astros depth chart?

by TexSkins on Dec 15, 2007 2:52 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

maybe....

I think the depth chart earlier in the year put Patton in the No. 5 slot and Sampson in the bullpen. Now that Patton is gone, Paulino seems to have slipped into his position. I think the depth charts have limited value, since they can be changed a any time, but there must be a reason why players are put in certain categories.

by clack on Dec 15, 2007 5:59 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wade was on 790

shortly after the Valverde deal was announced and mentioned Nieve as a possibility for that 5th spot - seemed to think he'd be ready by ST.

He also mentioned the need for an "innings-eater" a couple times, so I would be really surprised if they head into '08 with Backe and Sampson/Nieve/ Paulino and the end of the rotation.

by mokulen on Dec 15, 2007 9:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Astros have to do something...

on the starting pitcher front, but they have no real trading chips left. The No. 6 starting pitcher appears to be Paulino and nobody behind him. All starting rotations will have injuries at some point, so pitching depth is necessary. (And one has to assume that Sampson and Backe are greater than average injury risks.) Typically a team needs 7 or 8 starting pitchers over the course of a season. The Astros don't have that.

I don't mind picking up Jason Jennings, but Richard Justice's blog in the HC says that the Astros have ruled out Jennings. I don't know if I believe it, though. If he is ruled out, I think the best option may be Lieber. At least with Lieber, you have a good idea of what you are going to get: probably 180 innings of league-average pitching. And he won't cost the team a long contract.

I don't know if the Astros can afford to overpay for guys like Silva and Lohse, who are the best of the "healthy" FA pitchers. However, this is a difficult situation for Wade. He has now seemingly committed to "going for broke" next year and trying to win it all. Going with the "young guys" may not appeal to him. Wade has a lot of slots open on the 40 man roster now; so I expect more acquisitions.

by clack on Dec 15, 2007 3:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Wow

This kind of shoots down Clemens' denials.

by Danyah on Dec 15, 2007 5:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

is it wrong that...

I just gained a lot of respect for Pettitte? I think this was the smartest thing he could have done...

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 15, 2007 6:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

No,

I don't think so. I can see your point of view. It took guts for him to come clean.

by Danyah on Dec 15, 2007 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

assuming

that by "come clean" you mean make up a story that might actually pass as coming clean so that he didn't look like a huge cheater. I don't totally buy his story, but then again I don't like people who play for the yankees much less leave the astros to play for the yankees.

by TimStros on Dec 15, 2007 7:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I dunno

I think I buy it... Pettitte never was a over-powering pitcher... HGH/Steroid don't give you more accuracy which is what has made Pettitte a good pitcher. He has no real reason to use steroids/hgh except for his reasons stated. It makes sense.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 15, 2007 7:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

yah well

look at the list of pitchers who took steroids and see how many of them were "overpowering". I don't think you have to be an overpowering pitcher to want to take steroids. I mean if your body is stronger then it would probably fatigue slower and allow you to go longer into games and get injured less as well. I'm not saying that I don't believe his story, i'm just saying that I don't 100% believe his story :)

by TimStros on Dec 15, 2007 7:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Hahahahaha!

Well said. I was in a hurry on my earlier post and therefore didn't expound upon the fact that I take issue with his wording--"IF I did something wrong. . . IF I offended anybody. . . ." I guess his PR people didn't explain to him that a qualified apology isn't much of an apology at all.

Also, I didn't write that I would also like for him to admit that he never intended to come back to the Astros in '07, that he was working with a realtor in NY while "contemplating retirement," and that he only used the Astros to up his deal with the Yankees.

You know, as long as he's in a confessing frame of mind. . . . = )

by Danyah on Dec 15, 2007 7:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Silva

What would it take to sign Carlos Silva to a four year deal?

Keeping Warm During Hot Stove Season

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 16, 2007 7:53 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Probably like 40 million

unfortunately...

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 16, 2007 8:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Pitching depth

It's gotta come from somewhere, and I think you're right on what it would take to get Silva, who's the best of what's left, although he's not that good. Average at best. Unless you're the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets or Cubs, committing $10 million per year for 4 years to an average-at-best pitcher isn't something you can really do.

I think Lohse is a Boras client, isn't he? That makes it extremely unlikely he'll wind up in Houston. Good. He's one of those pitcher who, when you see him listed as the starter against your team, you say, "Oh boy! We should score a lot tonight."

There's another name left off the "heathy free agent" list because he was just added due to a non-tender by the Tigers: Chad Durbin. His history is spotty, too, but he was 8-7 last year with a 4.75 ERA in arguably the best division in baseball & facing DH's. If he could get the ERA down to 4.50 in a weak NL division, he'd be a good acquisition. He was non-tendered because he's arb.-eligible & his salary would get set as a historical starter, although the Tigers wouldn't use him as a starter now that they've got Willis. So they didn't want to pay a reliever a starter's salary.

I'd sure take a shot at him before spending big bucks & multiple years on Silva or Lohse, or gambling on the health of Lieber or Prior (who I think isn't even expected to be ready to give it a try by Opening Day.)

by waiting46yrs on Dec 17, 2007 9:23 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Way scary

They're "watching" Kris Benson.

Not even sure if the guy's any good, since all you ever read about is his--shall we say, histrionic?--spouse.

by Danyah on Dec 17, 2007 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Berkman has some reservations...

about the "New Era?"

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/bb/5383082.html

He said he feels like he has been traded to a new team. He worries that the club's chemistry will be worse. He complains about Valverde's fist pumping.

What are your thoughts?

I think he should wait to talk to Valverde privately before calling him out in public. Not exactly the best "welcome wagon" for a new member of the team.

by clack on Dec 17, 2007 2:02 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

That would have been the grown-up thing to do. Do you think he's reacting to the loss of his buddy Burke through this acquisition?

I find myself really conflicted about Berkman sometimes. The guy has more natural talent in his little toe than half of all MLB. He's a strong Christian and seems to actually walk the walk. But he doesn't work out, barely shows up on time apparently, and has a tendency to air his gripes publicly, sometimes with little discretion.

Oh well, not sure what I really expect, from him or any ballplayer. At least I was able to bust a gut laughing when people suggested he might be on the Mitchell report. That's something, I suppose.

by Danyah on Dec 17, 2007 5:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

My initial thoughts on reading his comments were

that if Berkman had not played so poorly in the first two or three months of 2007, a lot of things could have been different in the season; and many of his buddies (and maybe the GM and manager) would still be with the team.

Find yourself a mirror, Lance. Take a good look.

Keeping Warm During Hot Stove Season

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 17, 2007 12:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

I mean here is Berkman talking about Valverde's antics and adding fuel to the fire for the other team to bring it up a notch but closers do this all over the league. Look at Palpobon (sp? - the closer there in Boston)...Granted Berkman might be depressed to see all the players he came up with and played along with at Houston leaving but last season was bad so time to change things up and bring in some new blood (I'm only saying this about the new players and am not entireley endorsing all the trades but at least give them a chance to perform). And Joe, right on about Berkman in the first 2 or 3 months. Show up ready to play from the beginning of the season and not just from June!

Go Stros!

SeoulStro

Bagwell for the Hall of Fame!

by SeoulStro on Dec 17, 2007 8:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll admit

I don't think I'll be as emotionally attached to the team this year as I have been in the past... We'll see.. maybe it will change once the season gets closer...

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 17, 2007 10:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Personally I'm excited

Let's get this baby on the road.

Keeping Warm During Hot Stove Season

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 17, 2007 11:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think..

the team will be more fun to watch on a pure baseball related terms.. I mean we have an offense that could (at least on paper) average 6-7 runs a game... then again, our rotation could have an 8 ERA. Could be very exciting... like watching Lidge in the 9th... But I'm not emotionally attached..

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 18, 2007 11:46 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

wow

220+ votes on the poll.

That is way more than I can ever remember.

I would like to welcome any new crawfishes and hope yall stick around. This is a pretty informative site no matter what part of baseball intrigues you. The Stros are gonna need all our support this year so stay and help the cause.

Good wishes to all. And have a happy happy holiday.

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Dec 18, 2007 2:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

here here!

And the no's for the Tejada trade are losing ground!

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Dec 18, 2007 7:05 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I saw that Iguchi is a Padre

This is the first I have heard about it.

He signed a 1 year deal for 3.85-4.5Mil based on incentives. I think that Wade's haste cost the Astros millions and years. I think it turned out that most teams just weren't that interested in the 2nd Base FA's. Surely an appearance in the WS isn't worth an extra 12 million. I may be wrong but I sure think the Padres got a better player for a much better deal than the Stros did.

http://sandiego.padres.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071218&content_id=2330687&vkey=news_sd &fext=.jsp&c_id=sd

Any thoughts?

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Iguchi was always...

my first choice as a free agent for 2d base. As it turns out, he is cheaper and didn't require a three year contract. Wade always seemed to view Iguchi as a lessor candidate than Castillo and Matsui. I'm not sure why. Some guesses...Wade placed a very high premium on speed. (Iguchi has decent speed, but not as good a base stealer as Matsui.) Or perhaps Wade places a higher priority on batting average than OPS.

by clack on Dec 19, 2007 2:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

This is about Wade, not Iguchi or Matsui

Based on his words and actions, my conclusion is that Ed Wade would rather act early (and maybe pay more)to sign a player, even if a better option is available for his needs, than to wait and maybe lose out on all of the options.

This way he has a serviceable player and can move on to the next piece of the puzzle.

That's why Astros have Matsui.

That's why Astros have Geoff Blum (poor Geoff Blum -- Loretta Lite - Reminds me of the old George Gobel joke, "Did you ever get the feeling the world is a tuxedo and you're a pair of brown shoes?")

Keeping Warm During Hot Stove Season

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 19, 2007 7:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Iguchi was my second choice

Behind Castillo but for the money and length of contract I think Iguchi is far and away the best deal.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Dec 20, 2007 4:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

my only comfort

in getting Matsui instead of Iguchi is not losing a draft pick in the deal. Matsui might be a bit quicker on the basepaths, but i'm not sure defensively he's that much of a significant upgrade over Iguchi, and certainly i'd be much more excited about Iguchi's production in the two-hole than Kaz. we'll see how it all pans out.

by littlevisigoth on Dec 21, 2007 9:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Iguchi didn't cost a draft pick...

Phillies were contractually precluded from re-signing him, so they couldn't offer arbitration. According to MLB.com:
"There's another snag to a potential agreement. The sides officially parted company on Nov. 15, when Iguchi was released, as per a contract stipulation that demanded it if he wasn't re-signed within 15 days of the World Series. The Phillies also couldn't offer Iguchi arbitration, as per the contract."
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20071204&content_id=2317554&vkey=news_phi&fext=. jsp&c_id=phi

Although Iguchi was a Type A Free Agent, he was never a threat to cost a signing team a draft choice.

by clack on Dec 21, 2007 9:41 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

That makes it worse move

I just don't see how Matsui was worth that much more for that much longer than Iguchi. Anyone want to bet against Iguchi's numbers being better in Petco next year than Matsui's in Minute Maid?
I don't get it.

It's the next generation of Astros. Let's see if they can play like the men they are replacing.

by TBurford on Dec 21, 2007 2:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Bill James is his advisor?

James projects Matsui to hit .294/.350/.435 in 483 ABs with 11 HR and 25 SB next year, believe it or not.

Lee, Pence, HGH in '08

by entropic soul on Dec 21, 2007 3:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed

Search

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Pitching Mechanics/Terms To Look/Listen For

by baggs 2 days ago

9 comments | 4 recs

Recent FanPosts

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

NL Central Standings

	W	L	PCT	GB	STRK
St. Louis Viva El Birdos	91	71	.561	0	Lost 6
Chicago Bleed Cubbie Blue	83	78	.515	7.5	Lost 1
Milwaukee Brew Crew Ball	80	82	.493	11	Won 3
Cincinnati Red Reporter	78	84	.481	13	Won 2
Houston The Crawfish Boxes	74	88	.456	17	Lost 3
Pittsburgh Bucs Dugout	62	99	.385	28.5	Lost 2