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Brad Lidge Traded for Michael Bourn

Technically, the trade included Houston Astros Brad Lidge and Eric Bruntlett for Philadelphia Phillies Michael Bourn, Geoff Geary and Minor League third baseman Michael Costanzo; but in all actuality, it's Bourn for Lidge.

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I woke up this morning and turned on the local sports radio and this was basically the first thing I heard... and it shocked me. Not really shocked that Lidge was traded, just shocked me that the Astros actually made a trade. When I first heard the news I was like "we traded away Brad Lidge for who?". I won't lie, I know little to nothing about Michael Bourn(who by the way is a Houston Native and went to U of H) and when I heard that we traded for a Phillies outfielder, I was really hoping it was for Rowand... but it wasn't.

So what to think about this... I can't really say I'm sad to see Brad Lidge go. I really liked him as a person and liked his attitude and just generally liked him period... I just didn't trust him as a closer. Great stuff though. I can't say I'm real excited about Bourn either. Dude's only started 15 games in his career!!! Not the greatest OBP (.348) for a lead off hitter either... but then again, he has only started 15 games and he could blossom into a good lead of hitter... then again, he could turn out to be a total bust and a waste of a roster spot. Only time will tell.

Other thoughts... I guess this basically takes away Luke Scott's chances to be an everyday starting Astro(well, unless Bourn just tanks it and Luke steals the job back). Luke had an off season last year only batting .255; but then again he also got screwed(in my opinion) by being a platoon player and never really got a chance to play everyday.

Thoughts?

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I've already posted my thoughts elsewhere
but i will say that Bourns OBP last year was higher than the NL average for centerfielders with more than 250 abs(.336) and about even with the average for leadoff hitters with more than 250 atbats(.345). Obviously it's a small sample size but it's not really fair to criticize him for not having a good obp.

Anyway, Nate Silver had an article in BP's unfiltered section on the trade(here) which surprisingly(IMO at least) says that Houston got the better end of the deal. The gist of it is that Lidge is good and will probably be good, but one year of him, plus about 4 million dollars saved from not going after Cordero, isn't worth the two prospects, both of whom are projected to be solid major leagues.

I don't generally agree with BP on much, and I'm kinda iffy on this one. I do think Houston did well, but I also don't think the Phillies did that bad either. Both teams got what they wanted without giving up too much, and like I said, it seems fair to me. Silver seemed to ignore the benefits of moving Myers back to the bullpen, and I think he's overvaluing Bourn and Costanzo a little bit. He did have a follow-up (article), addressing those and other criticisms, though obviously most of that's about the Phillies side of the deal.

by MG(vers. 2) on Nov 8, 2007 10:29 PM CST reply actions  

"moving Myers back to the bullpen..."
that should be "moving Myers back to the rotation".

by MG(vers. 2) on Nov 8, 2007 10:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Some more stuff
  1. I have heard a lot about the Wade factor. Dealing with the Phills in his first is probably not coincidental. I am sure the familiarity(from both sides) made it easier to sit down to the table. Both thinking that the other guy won't knowingly rape him. But who did it help?
  2. Costanzo: He is not a throw in. He is definitely a player that was bartered about. He was among the top college hitters coming out for the draft. He had a little let down in his junior season after a monster sophomore campaign. Did very good in his first shot at pro ball except for his Ks. And his second year was not as good as people would have thought and he was still putting up big K numbers. So his stock dropped a ton. And this year he really mashed and K-ed. So he is coming off a big letdown then a spike.
I like SEC avg because it shows offensive production to me. It is also great for prospects that are in lower levels because it rewards BB at a high rate which is important in a young player. Well Costanzo had a very good SEC (.372)this year and has good production at the plate. So I am thinking that he is better than he has gotten credit for in the rumblings of this trade.

He is probably the 2nd best POS player prospect the Astros have now and I would grade him a B.

3. From hearing wade it sounds like the Phils wanted Lidge and said that Bourn is available. Bourn was talked about in the season before the deadline. Then they hammered out how to make that work. So now we at least know how that went down.

Make the world a better place. Punch Tim Purpura in the face.

by Shamus on Nov 8, 2007 11:16 PM CST reply actions  

Costanza seems to be an important...
piece of the trade to the Astros.  This quote from Wade is interesting:

"While we were waiting [for the medical reports to complete the trade], I said, 'All right, if we get Costanzo, who's a better left-handed power bat in [Houston's Minor League] organization?' " Wade said. "The answer is nobody."

by clack on Nov 8, 2007 11:56 PM CST up reply actions  

Upon further review...
Hey guys,

Long time no post (I know...just going through some Astro withdrawal). Anyway, when I first heard of this trade...I was kind of surprised Lidge was traded but maybe it was just time. Like Stros Bro said, I liked him as well and there is no denying his stuff but seemed like everytime he came in, you didn't know which Lidge you'd get on that given day.

Anyway, I went to some Philly boards to guage the reactions there and even though they are happy about acquiring Lidge, most of the fans were high on Bourne and it seemed to me at least that they were really high on Costanzo! He really put up some good numbers in the minors like Shamus mentioned and they were projecting him to make it to the Majors in 2009!

For now it seems that the Astros got a fair return but time will tell I guess. It can't be as bad as the Jennings-Hirsch/WillyT trade can it?! Can it? (Gulp!)

Go Stros!

SeoulStro

Bagwell for the Hall of Fame!

by SeoulStro on Nov 8, 2007 11:28 PM CST reply actions  

A team that needs a closer but doesn't have one...
... has more upside than a team that has a closer and still can't contend. We needed to get value for Lidge before his FA, and while I'm sorry to see both guys go, that's baseball. Honestly, I can't imagine Lidge having an '08 season that would make me think they should offer him a big new contract extension, can you? So if you're not going to re-sign him, you must get value for him. And if a move like this one here and hopefully a couple more start to click and the team has a shot at the division, perhaps a closer can be found or created. But build the rest of the team first.

If Bourn starts at least 2 full seasons in CF, playing around average, the Astros are to the good, no? They have a position covered beyond Lidge's one year and money to go after other missing pieces.

I love Lidge the person, or at least what I know of him through the media. Seems smart, and obviously lots of guts and class facing up to his adversities. But we were probably going to say goodbye to him in a year, anyway. Bruntlett may have been wasted talent, but that wasn't Wade's fault, and he's probably approaching arbitration.

Please keep in mind, when I post, I just say what seems to make sense to me. I don't have the numbers to back up what I say like you guys. But the 'Bro asked for our thoughts.  

Wait'll next year. Or maybe the year after that or the year after that.

by Austin Astroholic on Nov 9, 2007 12:05 AM CST reply actions  

Good trade for both
Agree with most said above. Astros are a non-contending team with no need for a closer for just one year. Some have complained that we could have gotten higher value for Lidge, but it may not have happened so I'm glad Wade pulled the trigger. At least we got something for him.

Another criticism of this deal is that the Astros are weaker without Scott. I would have been happier with the deal if the Stros got starting pitching, but I can understand why it didn't happen so they got what they could. Hopefully they can package Scott and others for some starting pitching. This criticism would be null if the Astros make some more trades (which I think they should). You do not want to be relying on the free agent market this year.

As said above, this boosts the Phillies bullpen and starting rotation (Myers moving to rotation). Good move.

by semperfi1860 on Nov 9, 2007 2:28 PM CST reply actions  

Michael Bourn and Geoff Geary
I see Michael Bourn as a Willy T with a little better OBP - in other words, blazing speed, nice D, SB machine, but can actually get on base once in a while.  If Bourn does actually get on base more, '08 should be one of our better offensive years (Bourn, ????, Pence, Berkman, Lee, Wigginton ain't too bad).  People seem to forget that Geoff Geary was involved in this deal - he was probably little more than a throw in but still, I've done some research.  He's a slider-sinker type guy who induces a TON of groundballs - a good formula when pitching at Minute Maid.  I (and Coops too) see him as a mid-inning type guy who will come in after Woody implodes
The Maniac

by astromaniac on Nov 10, 2007 9:53 PM CST reply actions  

Willy T had a better OBP...
than Bourn last year, as Rastro pointed out elsewhere.

I agree that Geary may be a pleasant surprise from this deal.  He had a down year last  year (even though it was a better performance than the Astros' middle relievers), and I wouldn't be surprised to see him bounce back with a better ERA next season.  I think he can replace Springer's role, which the Astros struggled to replace last year.

by clack on Nov 11, 2007 9:38 AM CST up reply actions  

It'll be interesting to see...
the reception Lidge gets his first time back to MMP.  

It should be nothing less than a standing ovation, but you never know.

by TexSkins on Nov 11, 2007 4:37 PM CST reply actions  

I would hope he isn't boo-ed....
The fans need to show some class to a classy player like Lidge.  It's not like he asked to leave the Astros.

by clack on Nov 11, 2007 5:05 PM CST up reply actions  

hadn't thought about it
but i'm sure he'll be booed, at least by some.  if i'm at that game, i'll be standing and clapping.  he's always been a standup guy, and he gave us a lot of great moments, even if he mixed in some heartburn.  he always took his lumps and went about his job in a professional manner.  surely though, with some of the fans we've got in this town, he'll be booed a bit.

by littlevisigoth on Nov 14, 2007 12:34 PM CST up reply actions  

A standing O
when he blows a 2 run lead in the 9th with a home run...
Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Nov 12, 2007 7:22 PM CST up reply actions  

...after
striking out the first 2
Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Nov 12, 2007 7:23 PM CST up reply actions  

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