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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Hear Hear

I try not to pay attention to the people that are involved. . . I listen to the talk radio stations and how everybody thinks it's a witch hunt for [Barry] Bonds. I don't see it that way. I just think they're trying to get everybody in the game that's doing it. It's illegal.

--- Mike Lamb, on the Grimsley situation, quoted at the official site                        

So add Mike Lamb's name to the list of those who are going to be slightly embarassed if evidence ever implicates him.

But seriously folks, I haven't mentioned the Jason Grimsley incident, but this appears to be much bigger news than the Game of Shadows thing, and I am sincerely hoping that my belief that players are for the most part playing honest is not dashed into a million tiny pieces.

Don't know whether it will be days or weeks, but names have been named, and they will be leaked, at some point.  When they are, I sincerely hope that no-one on the Astros 40-man is included, but is that too much to ask?

Your comments, should you have any, are actively solicited.

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Personally, I'm not sure what to expect
It's been made pretty clear by the comments of all the players, and even some of the higher-ups, that even though steroids and other such substances were banned they were used prevantly before there were any true testing done in the MLB.

I don't think you can really blame the players for that either.  They were told by MLB to not use them, but then were told that winning was the bottom line.  The few that started using (ie Sosa, McGwire, Bonds) acheived instant fame through what they started to accomplish.  MLB embraced that, even though someone had to know what was going on as far back as then.  When they let Sosa and McGwire and Bonds (and I'm sure a few others) go unchecked, untested, and unpunished, it was all anyone could do to get on them.  Baseball is competitive; players had to keep themselves competitive to keep winning to keep their jobs.

Grimsley said he tested positive in 2003.  In fact, 83 people tested positive that year.  Maybe it was widely known who was what in the baseball circuits, but the fans never knew.  If the baseball players knew, they certainly never ostracized any of the players, or not publicly at least.  

All of this leads to my point.  I think players who dabbled in the substances back in the day shouldn't be punished now -- if they've truly kicked it.  It's too hard to prove and too witch hunt-ish for my liking.  However if they're caught with the substance now, throw 'em out of baseball.  If you're too stupid or too dependent on the drugs to kick the habit when everyone comes looking, you don't deserve to be playing anyways.  Bonds might fall under this category.  If he stopped using when the steroid issue broke, then he should be deemed innocent.  Unless there is ever a picture or videotape with Bonds pantless, bending over a table while Greg Anderson is injecting his ass with a vial clearly marked STEROIDS, how do you prove such a claim all these years later?

This is why I think these phantom muscle injuries have become the norm lately in MLB players.  Isn't this a record season for these type of injuries?  I'm not a scientist or a doctor, but after reading what steroids do to a body it's pretty easy to assume that you are going to be left with a lot of pain in your muscles once you get off them.

Personally, we should just consider this entire generation a wash and start the really stringent blood testing down lower at the Class A levels.  Enforce it there that it's not acceptable and they'll carry that through the major leagues.

As an Astros sidenote, I'd only really be devastated if Morgan, Berkman, Biggio, Backe (all those brilliant playoff performances), or Lidge was ever found using substances.  The others I think I could be okay with.  If Gallo or Zeke were ever found with them, I'd banish them to hell for still managing to fuck up on them.

by saylinara on Jun 9, 2006 1:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Not sure
where I fall on this one.  It bothers me a bit that this is all people want to talk about (and maybe I'm in the process of perpetuating that).  It seems like gossip mongering.  This story right now is just one guy getting caught, but with implications that more will follow.  At this point, it's just an open door for conjecture and so many people are rushing to go through it (Karl Ravich seems the most eager).  It's almost like all these people have money riding on an over/under bet and they're waiting to see if they've got the winning ticket.

I hope every cheater gets caught.  The "it was part of the culture of the sport" or "everybody was doing it" arguments are pretty flat.  Everybody that takes an illegal supplement knows that what they are doing is wrong, and if they get caught, they should be punished.  And whoever it is that's caught, I hope they all equally get their just desserts.  If there are a few Astros in the mix, that won't change how I feel about the organization as much as it will change the way I feel about the players.  Sure I'm keeping my fingers crossed, hoping that the good guy persona that I've bought into hook, line, and sinker, holds true, but I'm not going to temper my disgust for any individual.

I'm just not going to waste time pointing fingers at people without any hard evidence and due process.

Now let's get back to talking about baseball, cause no matter how many cheaters there were or are, I still want to move forward with following the game we all love.

by littlevisigoth on Jun 9, 2006 1:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Well
not to say anything bad about an organization that gave me their silver medal*, but this is kind of why blogs suck.

While Deadspin's loyal readers moan about how no-one takes them seriously, and call Patrick and Olbermann (!) out for gutlessness, they gleefully admit that their standards just ain't what the MSM adheres to.

And this is good?  It's unsurprising to me that Leitch was able to find someone, anyone, willing to say that this Mihlfield character was involved in HGH, simply because there's a connection in a nine-degrees-of-Jason-Grimsley sort of way between Mihlfield and Pujols.  Pujols is the big prize; knock him down, get the scholarship.  Of course, the mainstream knows this as well, but they, unlike blogdom, are still operating under the constraints and restraints that remain from when journalism was still a proud profession.

It's kind of odd to me that I'm defending ESPN, when an employee of theirs like Peter Gammons writes whatever he wants to, then allows whatever turns out to be true to be attached to his glowing resumé, but there it is.  It sounds to me as if Patrick for one is possessed of material at least as reliable as what Leitch came to the net with.  ESPN, however, is showing restraint.  They're probably doing research.

I will myself admit that I have a very great emotional stake in Pujols being clean, and will admit that as a rumor, this is fascinating.  

But proof it ain't.   And to quote the number that Leitch uses as a crutch, it's not even 80% proof.

80% ain't even close to being good enough.

The arrogant Deadspin faction (trumpeting their intellectual superiority over those who frequent Cardinal message boards, in this case)  loves to cry about how bad they've got it, but seems to me they're in the best of all possible worlds:  if the shoddy approach to fact-checking yields a story that ends up being true, they win.  And if it ends up being false, well, this is the new media.  The old rules simply don't apply, and why does everyone always pick on us?

----------

* and I wouldn't begrudge them the fact that they gave their gold medal to a hysterical, shrieking hillbilly, either.  Honest.

by rastronomicals on Jun 10, 2006 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

There is
a small Astros component to this, as of course Grimsley was acquired straight up by the Astros in the deal that sent the still-immature Curt Schilling away.

Grimsley didn't make the '92 club out of spring training, and spent the year at Tucson, which was the Astros' AAA affiliate in the Pacific Coast League then.

For the record, Grimsley was 8 - 7 with a 5.05 at Tucson in what would be his only year working for the Astros organization.

He was given his outright release March 30, 1993, after going 4 - 0 with a 5.19 in 7 spring training games.  Thence to Cleveland, I believe, where he would get his first taste of fame.

by rastronomicals on Jun 10, 2006 11:47 AM CDT reply actions  

If
you hadn't read the Novitzky affidavit, here it is, over at the Smoking Gun.

Look for the redacted name of Sammy Sosa!

by rastronomicals on Jun 10, 2006 12:06 PM CDT reply actions  

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