Ghosts of Houston Astros' Spring Trainings Past

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 8:09 AM CST in Houston Astros History

I'm over 1,300 miles from the Astros' spring training camp, but I can dream about seeing those neatly manicured fields and the sweet whiff of newly cut grass. Some of the pitchers and catchers already showed up in Florida last week, and the real start of spring training began this week. I know some of you baseball junkies already are anxiously awaiting spring training games and daily reports...and "I'm in the best shape of my life" interviews. What can I do to satisfy the craving for more spring training news?

I thought it might be interesting to turn to some of the Astros spring trainings from the past. I'm no H.G. Wells, but I can try to devise a modest time machine. I've gone through articles written during spring training at TCB for the past seasons, and extracted some quotes to give you a feel for the mood and coverage. I'm the longest term TCB member among the current editors and contributors. And I first joined TCB before the 2007 season. So, it's nostalgic for me to include the 2007 spring training articles. Given space considerations, I will limit this article to the 2007 season, but if there is favorable response, I may write a follow up, based on the 2008 and 2009 spring trainings.

2007 Spring Training

Rastronomicals (I'll say Rastro, for short) was the main editor of TCB at this point in time. And the Astros were in a state of flux, losing Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte, signing Carlos Lee, and trading for Jason Jennings. The season would end with a thud. Despite some dark clouds visible on the horizon, Astros' fans still hoped to compete for the NL Central title. The complaints about Biggio blocking Chris Burke at 2d base rose to a crescendo in some quarters, as Burke was scheduled for CF and Biggio was handed the 2d base playing time for his 3,000 hit parade. Minor leaguer Hunter Pence played CF at the time, and his strong rookie spring training performance added more pressure to the decision to move Burke to CF. Spring training competition included RF, with Luke Scott, Jason Lane, and Richard Hidalgo in the mix, and a rotation spot open for Brian Moehler, Fernando Nieve, or Chris Sampson.

Feb. 6, 2007. Rastro discusses the fans' preference for Luke Scott in RF, and suggests that Jason Lane or Richard Hildago (brought into camp as a NRI) might provide better defense:

Yet it's a funny thing: everybody likes to talk about defense, but nobody wants to do anything about it. With the spectre of the worst outfield defense in franchise history hanging over the 2007 team as they open camp, not one person thinks that we oughtn't to throw the defensive dogs even one bone?... And while I can understand skepticism of Hidalgo after his wretched years in the wilderness, have you seen some of the reports? They positively glow.

Mar. 7, 2007. Hidalgo's sizzling winter league hitting turns ice cold in spring camp, and Rastro notes the development:

Speaking of Richard, this 0 for spring thing is getting painful to watch...

He had to be named winter league playoffs MVP, practically, to even get the invite, and now he's watching his last chance dissolve into thin air in the space of a mere 14 AB's. We like the underdog until he starts playing like one, and Hidalgo is very quickly being left for dead.

Mar. 13, 2007.StrosBro writes about Pence's spring performance so far with the facetious headline "Hunter Pence Slumping:"

Yes it's true... he's slumping. I'm sure it's hard for him to take too... I mean his batting average is under .700 now and bordering the .600 mark. I'm not really sure how he can live with himself. Only 14 hits out of 22 at bats... pathetic. Word is that Pence is still going to be sent down when the time comes and that Burke is guaranteed the starting spot (heard it from Timmy P on the radio). Tim basically said that he couldn't live with himself if he didn't give Chris the starting job.

Mar. 21, 2007. Pupura announces that Wandy Rodriguez will be the No. 4 starter. Rastro's headline cracks me up:

Wandy Haters Wearing Black This Morning

Mar. 22, 2007 You may recall the spring training uproar when Cardinals' manager Tony LaRussa was arrested for DUI. Under the heading "Looks Like LaGenius was LaDrunk," Rastro writes:

They found him LaSlumped over his LaSteering wheel, and now he's got to LaPost LaBail.

Mar. 11, 2007. The headline was "Burke vs. Bidge," and Rastronomicals made his take very clear. Rastro crunches the numbers between Burke and Biggio. But, as it turned out, the Astros would be so far from a winning season that the impact of Biggio's 3000 hit parade on the Astros' record turned out to be moot.

Every time I go over to The Chronicle to read JJO's blog or Bailey's blog, I'm assaulted with the somewhat repetitious mad ramblings of fans convinced that Biggio is, in his selfish quest for 3,000 hits, dooming the 2007 club to failure….And since I believe one of your common syllogisms in sabermetrics is that ten runs is a win, there you have it: Based on 2006 numbers, using Chris Burke at second base will get you an extra win over the 162-game season…Not to diminish the importance of each and every win,..., but a single, lousy win.

That's all. With the storm that's been made about how Biggio has been so selfish, I thought it might be like five wins, or ten.And if that's the case, if it's only a single game, then big deal.

Given the fact that Biggio has given the Astros 2700 games, I'm inclined to say that it's OK to give him back the one. Given the fact that Bidge is a three-time club MVP, given the fact that he was probably the best player in the National League for a couple years, shit just given the fact that he never opted to go free agent and sign with the Rockies or the Cardinals, I'm inclined to give him that one game. Let Brad Lidge work overtime, and not blow that one game he would have otherwise blown. Let Garner figure out how to win one late with some fancy antic, squeezing with Quintero or some such crazy thing.

Mar, 23 and Mar. 24, 2007. Perhaps these spring training snippets foretell some pitching problems to come:

Jennings comes in at 1 - 1 with a 5.00 ERA over nine innings pitched, and while we won't suggest that a low innings total or indeed a high ERA means all that much, we're also still waiting for Jennings to start unleashing the sinker that's made him millions...Jason has a 1:1 flyball/groundball ratio this spring, which doesn't mean he's turned into Woody Williams or anything, but is still well shy of his career 1.50...

Are we really going back to Houston with our best pitchers? After watching Woody (Williams) and Chris (Sampson) get their bejeezuses rocked the last two nights, I wonder whether the Chronicle lunatic fringe might not be right: Maybe we should pencil our best talent in, NOW. If you're gonna get blown out, you might as well get blown out with Troy Patton and Juan Gutierrez.

Mar. 24, 2007. The Spring training decisions start to bring the final 25 man roster into view. You may recognize some of the names in those decisions:

Richard Hidalgo was released today... Also today, Zeke Astacio showed why the demotion to Round Rock is inevitable when he couldn't throw a first pitch strike to a single A minor league player in a pressure bases-loaded situation. In what was surely the highlight of his professional career so far, former Oneonta Tiger Brennan Boesch hammered a 2 - 0 offering from Astacio to the wall in right center, and cleared the bases of Tigers [Astacio would be claimed off waivers by the Rangers shortly after this was written]...That gets you to Bruntlett vs. Borkowski, Eric B vs. Borks, the roster spot battle that will be fought over the last week, even if only in Garner's crafty little mind.

Mar. 31, 2007.Rastro reacts to the Astros' decision to keep Moehler over Nieve on the roster:

I guess it then comes down to Moehler over Nieve, and what can I say? Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong. It's not as bad as if Moehler had been named fifth starter, but simply put, Nieve has a future in this organization, and Moehler does not.

Do many of you remember the 2007 spring training? What's stands out in your mind from recent spring trainings?

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Comments

Fun post

Always good to laugh about our mistakes and brag about our prognostications.

FWIW, I just read Kvasnicka is being moved back to catcher. Probably gives him a better shot at sticking as an MLB backup at some point.

by CRPerry13 on Feb 21, 2012 8:22 AM CST reply actions

Someone also posted the Kvasnicka story in another thread, and there were some comments there, with most commenters agreeing with the move and some discussion of the 3d base depth in the farm system.

One thing that struck me is how moot the whole Biggio vs. Burke controversy became in retrospect, given the final W/L record (nowhere close to competitive) and Burke’s precipitous decline as a hitter. The controversy over giving Biggio the starting spot in order to get his 3,000 hits was the biggest Astros’ debate of the pre-season among the national press as well local fans.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 8:56 AM CST up reply actions

Yeah, Busta Posee posted that as well. In regards to the third base depth, Subber brought up Jose Carlos Thompson as someone who could potentially be moved to third base. That may eliminate some of the middle infield depth, but I forgot about him, and he could be another option.

by conroestro on Feb 21, 2012 9:29 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Kvasnicka has the name and the looks of a catcher

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/

Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it. - Henry Ford

by BustaPozee on Feb 21, 2012 6:30 PM CST up reply actions

Good article

Jason Jennings, how did he get so bad so fast? At least Pence was a bright spot that year. Maybe some other young prospect will make a name for himself this spring like Pence did in 2007.

by jmike on Feb 21, 2012 8:46 AM CST reply actions

I think Jennings’ arm was already showing the wear and tear when he was traded to the Astros. After the fact, some people criticized the Astros for not doing enough to investigate his arm health. As I recall, there was some evidence that the Astros didn’t give him a medical exam before the trade —-the Astros were in a big hurry to get the trade done because they had let Pettitte go and had a botched pitching trade with the White Sox.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 8:51 AM CST up reply actions

For the package they gave up at the time (even though they didn’t pan out, but we didn’t know that then) I would’ve have much rather seen them acquire Garland.

by conroestro on Feb 21, 2012 9:26 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Prospects

Wow, all that seems like yesterday. It sure is amazing the number of Astros prospects that don’t pan out. Remember how everyone screamed when Troy Patton was included in the Tejada trade.

by PuhlRuhles on Feb 21, 2012 10:10 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions

The attrition rate on pitching prospects is really high.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 10:38 AM CST up reply actions

position playrs

The Astros haven’t been very good or have had very bad luck with position players also. Lane, Ensberg, Burke come immediately to mind. Zobrist and Buck are 2 that had some success elsewhere. Pence is the last real impact homegrown player I can think of, no one since unless one of this years young players develops. I’ve been a fan a very long time and I can’t remember ever seeing such a long road ahead to success.

by PuhlRuhles on Feb 21, 2012 10:47 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

Poor drafts leading up to the worst in 2007, injuries (Ensbergs shoulder), rushed to majors (Towles), illness (Max Sapp) have really contributed to a lot of bad luck and poor management/scouting has led to it. It’s getting better (thank you Bobby Heck).

by Subber10 on Feb 21, 2012 11:02 AM CST up reply actions

Agreed. Hopefully, JD Martinez, Jose Altuve, Jason Castro, George Springer, et al reverse that trend. Not looking promising on the Jio Mier or Jay Austin front though.

by jmike on Feb 21, 2012 11:10 AM CST up reply actions

That comes with the territory of the draft. HS picks are risky. Jio was a top 100 prospect and ranked as high as the 3rd best SS prospect in baseball by some.

Jay Austin has great tools, but a HS pick in the 3rd round. He’s risky.

Just because prospects fail, it doesn’t reflect poorly on the FO or organization, at times it can, but not always. When you read reports that talk about great tools, you have to go with that and see the upside, but when they fail, don’t blame the scouting department. It’s part of it. All stud players start with tools. Very few polish the tools.

Not saying that’s what you were saying…I’m just gettin on a soap box because attacking the FO tends to come with the mention of the bad seasons of Jio and Jay.

by Subber10 on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 AM CST up reply actions

No attack intended, just lamenting the string of bad luck and what turned out to be bad choices.

by PuhlRuhles on Feb 21, 2012 11:37 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

Sapp

I forgot about Max Sapp. That was bad luck. Astros recent top picks don’t give much confidence either. DDJ and Mier haven’t performed well and Castro hasn’t played much. 3 prospects in the top 100, 2 acquired in trades. Still one of the worst rated farm systems, the Astros really need to hit with this top pick this draft.

by PuhlRuhles on Feb 21, 2012 11:25 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions

Grigson was a pitcher picked with the Astros’ first round pick , and he had mental health problems after he was picked and never got to play much. It seems unusual to have health issues strike down two first round picks (within a couple of years of each other) before they even got started.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 12:18 PM CST up reply actions

Sapp wasn’t exactly lighting the world on fire before his illness. That said, I don’t get the people who thank Heck for improving our farm system. The latest Keith Law rankings had us at 27, and 6 of our top 7 prospects were acquired in the Oswalt, Bourn and Pence trades. Heck has had three drafts, and managed to find four guys who made the top ten of the 27th best farm system in baseball. That is awful.

by seanbergmanrules on Feb 21, 2012 9:19 PM CST up reply actions

Wait

Was Heck in charge for the 2008 draft? Has he now had four drafts?

by seanbergmanrules on Feb 21, 2012 9:20 PM CST up reply actions

Thats because Lyles, JD, and Castro are already in the majors. You also add in Shuck who has made it to the majors and there are three from one draft alone in the majors. You can’t evaluate a draft on immediate impact especially on draft classes that have a lot of HS talent.

You also have to factor in that Bobby Heck doesn’t have free will to draft players. He was given strict budgets to operate under. If Heck drafts Nick Castellanos instead of Kvasnicka and Drayton McClane doesn’t approve the bonus that he wanted, he doesn’t sign. Kvasnicka is more valuable signed than Castellanos in college baseball.

Last point is that Bobby Heck is the Director of SCOUTING. Not Director of AMATEUR Scouting. Bobby Heck’s evaluations were probably the most important factor in who we asked for in those trades to receive those top prospects.

by Subber10 on Feb 21, 2012 10:21 PM CST up reply actions

Actually, Assistant GM of Scouting and has directors of professional and latin america scouting and amateur scouting coordinator that works under him. But he still has everything to do with scouting the players we received in return.

by Subber10 on Feb 21, 2012 10:34 PM CST up reply actions

Baseball America ranked us 17th

That’s close to where I feel we should be, and I respect their opinion a bit more than I do Law’s.

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by OremLK on Feb 23, 2012 4:34 AM CST up reply actions

and if you average those two out that’s still low 20’s which is a pretty nice improvement.

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by Timothy De Block on Feb 23, 2012 9:29 AM CST up reply actions

I can’t complain about Ensberg. He provided a lot of value to the Astros for several years, including a season where he was the team MVP and was in the top 4 or 5 for NL MVP. He just fell off a cliff at age 30, which happens to some players. For position players, the aging curves show that a certain percentage will lose their baseball skills at that age. Burke and Lane at least made it to the majors and were starting contributors on a team that went to the World Series. That’s better than most top position player prospects accomplish.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 11:38 AM CST up reply actions

Bruntlett also came out of the Astros’ farm system in that era; he was only a utility player, but he was a damned fine one, contributing as much as anybody to getting to the World Series. Bruntlett made a bunch of key plays in 2005 as well as the 2005 NLCS that were crucial to getting into the World Series. The Astros farm system in that era also produced two other 2d baseman who had ML careers, Keith GInter and Brooks Conrad. Because Kent, Biggio, Bruntlett and Burke were ahead of them at the second base position in 2004 and/or 2005, they never got to the big leagues until they were too old to be prospects and could play for other teams.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 11:46 AM CST up reply actions

He was also crucial to the Phillies run in 2008.

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by Timothy De Block on Feb 21, 2012 12:04 PM CST up reply actions

well maybe not crucial if you look at his triple slash line line, but obviously provided something because he set career highs in games, PA and AB’s.

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by Timothy De Block on Feb 21, 2012 12:07 PM CST up reply actions

Bruntlett was the middle man in that amazing double play against the Cardinals in that game 4 victory.

by MadMartygan on Feb 21, 2012 12:17 PM CST up reply actions

…exactly what I was thinking about when I mentioned the NLCS. I don’t know that I have ever seen ball handling that quick before.

by clack on Feb 21, 2012 12:21 PM CST up reply actions

I will never forget that play, as long as I live. I was watching that game at a sports bar in San Antonio, and the whole place exploded when it happened.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Feb 21, 2012 3:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I didn’t think they had a chance when it was hit. It was beautiful. Special thanks to MLB for making sure we can’t find these clips on youtube.

by MadMartygan on Feb 21, 2012 3:58 PM CST up reply actions

That gets me furious.

I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!

by ccislanders on Feb 22, 2012 12:00 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

That was one of the best defensive plays I've ever seen live

When you watch the replay, the announcer says “slow ground ball, they’re not going to be able to turn two, or are they? Wow!” or something along those lines. Gave me goosebumps.

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by Patrick Harrel on Feb 21, 2012 6:39 PM CST up reply actions

Damn. Still gives me goosebumps.

by MadMartygan on Feb 21, 2012 7:04 PM CST up reply actions

I was at that game. Before that at bat I turned to my roommate and said “John Mabry is slow as fuck.”

by seanbergmanrules on Feb 21, 2012 9:24 PM CST up reply actions

That my friend, is majic.

I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!

by ccislanders on Feb 22, 2012 12:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

magic

I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!

by ccislanders on Feb 22, 2012 12:01 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

Ah, 2007 and shouldawouldacoulda

Looking back, this is the 25 man roster Houston SHOULD be fielding this year:

CF Drew Stubbs (should have signed him after drafting him in 2003)
2B Ben Zobrist (never should have traded him away)
RF Hunter Pence
1B Carlos Lee
LF JD Martinez
3B Chris Johnson
C Jason Castro
SS Jed Lowrie

The amount of draft busts between 2002 and 2007 is ridiculous:

Player-Rd-Yr
Sergio Perez-2-2006- AAA
Brandon Barnes-6-2005- AAA
Jimmy Van Ostrand-8-2006- AA
Derick Grigsby-1-2002- A
Mitch Talbot-2-2002 – injury, traded
Rory Shortell-3-2002- A
Mark McLemore-4-2002- injury
Pat Misch-5-2002 – AAAA
JP Duran-6-2002 – AA
Jason M Hirsh-2-2003 – traded, injury
Robert A Stubbs-3-2003- didn’t sign
Joshua A Anderson-4-2003 – AAAA
Joshua C Muecke-5-2003 – injury
Jon C Davis-6-2003 – AA
Hunter Pence-2-2004 – traded
Jordan E Parraz-3-2004 – still playing in minors
Lou Santangelo-4-2004 – AAA
Mitch A Einertson-5-2004 – AA
Benjamin T Zobrist-6-2004 – traded
Eli Iorg-1-2005 – AAA
Ralph M Henriquez-2-2005 – A
Joshua W Lindblom-3-2005 – didn’t sign
Tommy Manzella-3-2005 – AAAA
Joshua A Flores-4-2005 – injury
Wilson B Hart-5-2005 – AA
Maxwell Sapp-1-2006 – injury
Nick Moresi-3-2006 – AA
Casey Hudspeth-5-2006 – AA

by Snake Diggity on Feb 21, 2012 12:35 PM CST reply actions

Reading that list hurts. Every team has their share of whiffs and busts in each draft, but the Astros have definitely had more than their fair share in recent years.

The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.

by Stupendous Man on Feb 21, 2012 3:12 PM CST via mobile up reply actions

I remember a few seasons before the burke/biggio debate at 2b, there was a Jason lane/ biggio debate in cf.

by Brad E on Feb 21, 2012 1:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Jorge Soler

http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2012/02/21/astros-eyeing-top-cuban-of-as-luhnow-looks-to-grow-latin-american-profile/

I know its a long shot and that everyone is in on Jorge Soler, but I like reading the news that the Astros and Luhnow specifically is keeping in touch with his camp and at the very least are interested. I’m also happy to hear that Luhnow scouted down there and specifically mentions some pitchers with live arms. It would be nice if the Astros were able to sign some of those as well since this is the last chance to sign without being penalized.

by conroestro on Feb 21, 2012 3:35 PM CST via mobile reply actions 1 recs

I sure hope we can sign Soler. I don’t like our chances since everybody (Phillies, Yankees) will be in on him but how awesome would it be to add a #1 pick, plus a guy like Soler to our system.

by Astrofan on Feb 21, 2012 5:44 PM CST up reply actions

I miss rastronomicals

He was the steady voice in the early days.

I wish he’d return.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Feb 21, 2012 8:04 PM CST reply actions

Ohhh Hidalgo...

Those are some childhood mems for me. I’ll never forget my 2nd Astros game, he had an outfield assist from the right field corner to 2nd base. MONEY

I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!

by ccislanders on Feb 21, 2012 11:58 PM CST via mobile reply actions

Hey it's Hunter Pence! Oh wait, it's George Springer

Kinda has the Pence body build.

http://brianmctaggart.mlblogs.com/2012/02/22/2124684/

Thinking is the hardest work there is, which is probably the reason why so few engage in it. - Henry Ford

by BustaPozee on Feb 22, 2012 6:55 PM CST reply actions

I like the jersey numbers, shows where they are in the pecking order.

by jmike on Feb 23, 2012 9:14 AM CST reply actions

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