2012 Astros Prospects Preview
Warning: this post is 4300 words long, so it's probably more for newbies than TCB regulars. I remember when I first started following the astros, I wasn't able to find a good in depth resource for all the prospects in the system. There just wasn't much out there beyond the traditional top 10 lists. So here's an overview of who Houston has in its system heading into the 2012 season. Among all of MLB, I think Houston's farm would rank somewhere in the late teens at this point, which is good when you consider that those rankings wouldn't include promoted players like Lyles, Altuve, etc. If the rankings were based on all players age 25 and under, I think Houston would rank a little higher, somewhere in the 10-15 range. With the top pick in the draft and few more pieces to sell (Wandy, Lee, Myers), a little luck could see Houston begin 2013 with a top 10 farm system and a rapidly improving big league team. So let's go through the prospects, by position, after the jump.
Catcher, along with shortstop, centerfield, and starting pitching, marks the most important position in any team's farm system. Being a premium position, any player who can stick there defensively while providing plus offense is extremely valuable.
For Houston, the position isn't a total disaster, but it isn't exactly flush with premium prospects. Here's the breakdown:
System Grade: D+
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jason Castro (C)
Chris Wallace - (C-)
Others:
Ben Heath - see below
Roberto Pena - see below
Rene Garcia - plus defender with no bat
Ernesto Genoves - did well last year in short-season
Miles Hamblin - 2011 draftee did well enough to move up
Bubby Williams - former 11th rounder hasn't developed
Kenny Diaz - late round pick has shown flashes; still young
Kevin Gonzalez - Houston native hopes to get more innings in short-season repeat
Cristian Moronta
Alfredo Gonzalez
I listed Jason Castro as a prospect because he is still young and has yet to establish himself in the majors (you'll see me do this throughout these previews), meaning most of his value is based on projected development, which to me is what defines whether or not a player is considered a prospect. He is the only player in this group who projects to be an everyday major leaguer. He profiles to be average to plus behind the plate, with average offensive ability. Much of his future performance hinges on how he recovers from both his major knee surgery and his most recent foot injury. Catcher is one position where injuries can really derail a prospect, as once the body breaks down, the player is finished defensively. Still, he's likely to be the primary starter in Houston this year and there are plenty of reasons to believe he can and will become a viable starting catcher.
Chris Wallace and Ben Heath are interesting prospects. Both are 2010 draftees who have shown flashes of plus offensive ability, but neither profiles as a very good defensive catcher and both have given reasons to doubt their offensive prowess. Wallace had his stock shoot up after a stellar 2011 that saw him post a 906 OPS in class A before being promoted up to AA, where his numbers dropped but he still held his own. If he can post the same #'s he did in Lexington while in Corpus, he will start to figure more prominently into Houston's plans. His ceiling features average defense and average on base skills with plus power. Heath garnered hype after a 2010 campaign that saw him post an 883 OPS between low-A and AA. His 2011 was a disappointment after he failed to post comparable #'s and was eventually demoted from Lancaster to Lexington. That said, I'm not sure why this was done, because while his Lancaster #'s weren't stellar, he didn't exactly struggle, posting a .262/.333/.441 line. Like Wallace, he appears to have 20 HR potential and his ceiling would be an everyday catcher featuring plus power. At this point, the odds are on Wallace topping out as a fringe MLB'er who can spot catch and DH, with Heath needing a rebound year to project to a big-league future. Pena is widely recognized as the system's best defensive catcher, with a few scouts quipping that the former 7th rounder is already major-league ready in that facet of his game. The flip side to that sunshine is that he has struggled offensively in both his pro seasons. He has been young for his league at every stop, and entering 2012 at age 19 with a year of full-season ball already under his belt leaves room for optimism. But unless he develops offensively, he won't get past AA.
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First Base is a position of relative strength in Houston's system. Here's the roster:
System Grade: B
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jonathan Singleton (B+)
Brett Wallace (C-)
Kody Hinze (C-)
Telvin Nash (C-)
Others:
Chase Davidson - monster #'s but old for league
Mario Gonzalez - very good year in DSL
Zachary Johnson - 2012 15th rounder had solid but unspectacular debut
Jesse Wierzbicki - versatility and good #'s tempered by age relative to league
Singleton is a consensus top 100 prospect and one of the organization's top 3. His ceiling is an all-star 1B who can hit 30+ HRs in addition to a solid on-base skill. He'll need to shred Lancaster (if he doesn't begin the year in Corpus) to keep his hype up. A great year could have him poised to make his Houston debut in 2013.
Again, I listed Brett Wallace as a prospect because he is still only 25 and has yet to establish himself in the majors, meaning most of his value is based on projected development, which to me is what defines whether or not a player is considered a prospect. I still believe Wallace will end up hitting at the big-league level, but it's becoming apparent that his power may never reach the point to justify him as an everyday first baseman. The leash for him has become short (this is certainly the last year he will be able to be considered a prospect), so there won't be much room for him to struggle in AAA or even in Houston (should he get that chance). Hinze is coming off of a monster 2011 that put him on the prospect radar. 2012 will tell whether last year was the classic Cali-league fool's gold or if he can be a legit player. Nash's plus power potential is mitigated by his injury history and K rate. That said, he matches all 3 of my personal criteria for a good prospect: he's young for his league, he has some hype from scouts (and from the org as a former 3rd rd pick), and he's put up good #'s when healthy.
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Houston's batch of 2B farmhands features 2 very good prospects but very little after that:
System Grade: C
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jose Altuve (B-)
Delino DeShields, Jr (C)
Others:
Josh Magee - took a big step forward with his performance in Greeneville
John Hinson - had a solid debut in Tri-City, but can't be labeled a real prospect until he carries that over
JC Thompson - old for Lancaster and has been disastrous in limited opportunities in AA
Enrique Hernandez - moved to LF but still young for league and hasn't been totally overmatched
Luca Martone
Jose Solano
Astros' fans know all about the meteoric 2011 rise of the diminutive Altuve, who held his own in Houston after moving up all the way from A ball. He still has work to do, but from the looks of things, he will stick in the big leagues and his ceiling features a solid combination of plus speed/basestealing, plus contact, double-digit HR power, and adequate defense.
DeShields' 2011 appears to be a disappointment until it's noted that he was playing against guys 2-3 years his senior. All the tools are still there, with elite speed a given and plus defense and on-base skills a possibility. He'll need to take a step forward in order to show development, but time is still on his side.
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Shortstop has come a long way in the last few seasons, but a disappointing 2011 by Jio Mier lowers the grade:
System Grade: C-
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jonathan Villar (C+)
Jio Mier (C-)
Marwin Gonzalez (C-)
Others:
Brandon Wikoff - never strikes out, versatile defender, already in AAA
Jean Batista - part of a deep group of high-upside Dominican teenage infielders
Jose Fernandez - part of a deep group of high-upside Dominican teenage infielders
Juan Santana - great DSL debut
Arturo Michelena - Dominican bonus baby
Luis Reynoso - Dominican bonus baby
Chan Moon - looking like a bust at this point
Neiko Johnson - UDFA showed good walk and baserunning skills
Ruben Sosa - 2011 draftee likely slotted for backup role in A ball
Alex Todd - 2011 draftee likely slotted for backup role in A ball
Ben Orloff - if he was 3 years younger he'd be a good prospect
In terms of ceiling, Villar may be the best prospect Houston has. He reached AA at a very young age and held his own. He has Hanley Ramirez type potential (although probably with less power). That said, the next dominant season he puts up will be his first. He's a fringe top 100 prospect who has an important year ahead of him. A good 1st half in Corpus will drastically increase his stock. He could be a perennial All-Star SS or a AAAA infielder.
Former 1st round pick Jio Mier has turned in 2 consecutive lackluster seasons. His development needs to be slowed until he shows improved offensive production. The defense appears to be there, so the ceiling for him to be an everyday MLB SS still exists, but another poor offensive showing in Lancaster will project him much more likely as a utility guy. Gonzalez, one of this year's Rule 5 picks, has potential to be a great backup SS if Houston can manage to keep him on the 25 man for the full year.
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The addition of Jimmy Paredes to the 3B prospect pool raised the grade, but it is still an area lacking a truly elite prospect:
System Grade: C-
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jimmy Paredes (C)
Jonathan Meyer (C-)
Mike Kvasnicka (C-)
Others:
Matthew Duffy - solid if unspectacular 2011 draftee
Darwin Rivera - took a step forward in GCL
Erik Castro - has put up good #'s when healthy
Kyle Redinger - needs to show something to keep career alive
David Flores - may get one last chance in AA at age 25
Tyler Burnett- likely will get lost in the shuffle
Fredwin Campusano
Paredes finished the year as Houston's everyday 3B. A versatile athlete, his Robinson Cano ceiling is matched with his lack of plate discipline, which could keep him from sticking in the majors. He's still young and skipped AAA entirely, so it will likely be 2-3 years before his fate is sealed. Personally, I am high on Paredes.
Meyer, a 2009 3rd round pick, has been young for every level he's been placed at and has managed to hold his own offensively despite being touted as a defense-first player. His offensive production has increased every season of his career. A good year in AA could send his stock soaring. His ceiling features plus defense and double digit HR power. Kvasnicka's draft status is the main thing keeping him on the radar. The 2010 1st rounder hasn't shown much, and even though there's been no mention of it, I wouldn't be surprised to see him moved back to his college position of catcher to add depth at that position, especially if Paredes and/or Meyer have a great 2012.
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Of course players will be moved around the OF positions, but for the sake of this article, I've placed the players where I think they will get the majority of their time. RF is 1st:
System Grade: C+
Viable Prospects (grade):
Domingo Santana (C+)
Ariel Ovando (C-)
Jake Goebbert (C-)
Adam Bailey (C-)
Jordan Scott (C-)
Others:
Chris Epps - big #'s in debut, but old for league
Brandon Barnes - has shown flashes but it's now-or-never time
Kellen Kiilsgaard - former Stanford star needs to stay healthy and perform
Bryce Lane - 2010 Lancaster #'s must've been a mirage
Jarrod McKinney
Garen Wright
Santana may end up being the jewel of the Pence trade. All of the traits of a star are there. He can hit, hit for power, and field his position. He strikes out too much, but as young as he is, there is plenty of time for him to correct the problem. He's a fringe top 100 type and if he gets placed in Lancaster, I expect him to excel.
Ovando started his pro career amidst massive hype after he received the largest amatuer signing bonus in franchise history. And while the season wasn't a disaster, it wasn't a rousing success either. He did show some good things, flashing power and not floundering despite being a 17 year old Dominican in stateside ball. But he struck out too much and missed time due to injury, both hallmarks of many a failed prospect. He's a long way from having his story written and just needs to improve each year; he still has star potential. Goebbert and Bailey are similar in that they both are college draftees who have steadily moved through the system, putting up good numbers at each stop. Both are likely to reach the majors, although it's more likely they top out in a 5th OF or DH role. If everything breaks their way, each could have a few years as an everyday player. Jordan Scott is player who has gotten some front office love and had a good 2011 season. He's probably going to be young for his league (again), so he's definitely on the radar. His game needs work, but the tools are there.
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Centerfield may be the strongest, deepest position in the system:
System Grade: B+
Viable Prospects:
George Springer (B+)
Austin Wates (C)
Jordan Schafer (C)
Jack Shuck (C-)
Javaris Reynolds (C-)
Jay Austin (C-)
Others:
TJ Steele - now or never time
Dan Adamson - needs to stay healthy but #'s have been good so far
Justin Gominsky - has tools but can he get enough playing time to work on his game?
Andrew Muren - has tools but can he get enough playing time to work on his game?
Grant Hogue - MiLB bench OF, may be due for release
Jose Monzon
Springer is arguably the top prospect Houston has. A top 100 type, he is the proverbial 5-tool player, with plus speed, 30+ HR power, on-base skills, a solid glove, and a good arm for CF. The sample size from his pro debut is too small to draw any conclusions. His performance this season will set the stage for what can be expected from him. I'm hoping for a poor man's Grady Sizemore.
Behind Springer is a slew of athletes with varied backgrounds. Wates has a big year coming up in the proving grounds of AA. I'm probably lower on him than most, because to me he hasn't proven to have the defense to stick in CF or the power to stick in the corners. Schafer, a former top 100 prospect, needs a good year to stay in the mix. Injuries and off-the-field incidents may end up being his undoing, but they also give me reason to believe that we haven't seen what he can really do yet; this is his last year to claim prospect status. Shuck is a classic bench outfielder. He gets on base and can man all 3 positions, and being left-handed will help his cause. Austin, a former 2nd rounder, has yet to put together a really good offensive season. He did have a decent AFL stint this year, so hopefully that is a sign of things to come. He has elite speed and Michael Bourn potential is there. He's only 21, but anytime a player spends 3 years in A ball, it's not a good sign. Reynolds had a respectable pro debut. He's too young to know what he'll become (a younger Austin maybe), but he's definitely worth following.
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The 'stros need the LF prospect pool to be deep since they will be adding a DH in 2013:
System Grade: C+
Viable Prospects:
JD Martinez (C+)
Fernando Martinez (C+)
Brandon Meredith (C-)
Others:
Emilio King - stock soared after big 1st full-season
Teoscar Hernandez - big year in the DSL probably has him poised for stateside ball
Jon Gaston - has shown flashes but it's now-or-never time
Rafael Valenzuela - needs to stay healthy but fits classic DH mold
Kelvin Vizcaino - Dominican bonus baby's story still ahead of him
Wallace Gonzales - 2011 overslot signing worth keeping an eye on
JD Martinez hasn't given anyone any evidence that he's anything other than a hitting machine. He even showed surprising power after his big-league promotion. Despite his knee arthritis he looked to be a good athlete for LF. If he can hit near .280 and put up 20+ HRs, he'll stick for sure.
Being the worst team in the league finally paid dividends when Houston was able to claim Fernando Martinez off waivers from the Mets. The former top 50 prospect is still very young and will be given a good opportunity with the Astros. Injuries have removed his 5-tool CF ceiling but there's still a chance he can be a very good corner outfielder. Meredith, last year's 6th round pick, is another player worth tracking. He's a good athlete who will need to add power to rise in the depth chart.
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Regardless of who ends up starting the year in the big-league rotation, the minor league starting pitching should be very strong:
System Grade: C+
Viable Prospects (grade):
Jarred Cosart (B+) - see below
Jordan Lyles (B) - see below
Mike Foltynewicz (C+) - see below
Adrian Houser (C+) - see below
Paul Clemens (C+) - see below
Brett Oberholtzer (C+) - see below
Jack Armstrong Jr (C+) - see below
Kyle Weiland (C) - could make Houston's rotation; last year as a prospect
Tanner Bushue (C) - 2009 2nd rounder must show improvement this year or stock will plummet
Vincent Velasquez (C) - 2010 2nd rounder recovering from major arm surgery and will be coddled
Michael Feliz (C) - very good GCL debut for big $ Int'l signee
Jose Montero (C-) - DSL bonus baby needs a rebound
Nick Tropeano (C-) - excellent debut for college draftee
Kyle Hallock (C-) - another 2011 draftee who had a great start
Jake Buchanan (C-) - POY will have to prove himself in AA
Ruben Alaniz (C-) - major sleeper with fantastic curve
Christopher Lee (C-) - 4th rounder struggled out of the gate, still young
Ross Seaton (C-) - still young but needs to show improvement
Dallas Keuchel (C-) - steady riser; anywhere from LOOGY to 4th starter
Jonas Dufek (C-) - another college lefty who I expect to rise steadily
Aneury Rodriguez (C-) - still may have a couple years of development, will be in AAA rotation
Evan Grills (C-) - sleeper lefty I'm watching closely
Luis Ordosgoitti (C-) - fantastic #'s in 2011; oddly bounced between levels
Brandon Culbreth (C-) - 2011 8th rounder struggled in 1st pro season
Harold Arauz (C-) - 'stros' biggest int'l signee of 2011
Edgar Ferreira (C-) - disappeared after getting hefty signing bonus and good 2010
Jamaine Cotton (C-) - surprised with rotation spot and good performance in Tri-City
Others:
BJ Hyatt - Has some heat, must stay healthy starting now
Jose Cisnero - huge K rate but prone to getting knocked around
Bobby Doran - 2010 4th rounder got bit by Lancaster
Tom Shirley - excellent #'s, injury history
Xavier Cedeno - great 2011 revived his career
Andrew Robinson - did he survive Lancaster?
Wes Musick - showed flashes, but time is working against him at this point
Francis Ramirez - good 2011 makes him one to watch in 2012
Juan Minaya - may be a #'s casualty
Carlos Quevedo - may be a #'s casualty
Robby Donovan - may be a #'s casualty
Zach Grimmett - may be a #'s casualty
Brad Dydalewicz - cannot think of a worse year a pitcher could have than Dydalewicz's 2011
Brandt Walker - former 8th rounder must stay healthy starting now
David Duncan - former 6th rounder must stay healthy starting now
Jonathan Aristil - probably destined for AAA relief role
Tyson Perez - decent debut for 2012 draftee
Euris Quezada - PED bust doesn't bode well
Reymin Gaduan
Ambiorix De Leon
Luis Abad
Johan Arias
Ricardo Batista
Yeudy Perdomo
Frederick Tiburcio
Starting in Houston and going all the way down to short-season ball, the system has a glut of players that project to be 4th or 5th starters. That can be viewed as good or bad, but regardless I think the depth of the pitching in Houston's farm is better than average.
Cosart has fantastic heat and good secondary pitches, but his k rate has been low thus far. As a top 100 prospect and one of the top 3 in the system, his development is extremely important to Houston.
At 22, the bulk of Jordan Lyles' development still lies in front of him. He held his own after being called up last season, but may benefit from some more time in AAA. For such a young player, his band of outcomes is fairly narrow, as I see him as at best a #2 starter and at worst a good #4.
2010 1st round pick Foltynewicz didn't blow the doors off of anyone last season in A ball. He was young for his league (and will be again this season), so he just needs to show improvement. As one of the few players with front-of-the-rotation upside, his development needs to be handled carefully. Based solely on last season his stock took a hit and he's probably seen as a future mid-rotation guy at this point.
Houser had a decent rookie-ball outing and all the ceiling is there. It'll be interesting to see where he is placed this season. If he is put in full-season ball and does well, his stock will soar. He could end up as a #2 if everything breaks right.
Clemens is one of 2 players who came from Atlanta in the Bourn trade who could be in Houston's rotation at some point this year. He'll be in spring training and unless he blows the front office away, he'll be in AAA to start 2012. He reminds some of Bud Norris, and that's probably his best case scenario.
Oberholtzer may be slotted for AA due to the number of starters vying for spots in Houston. He did well in Corpus last season and could end up as a September callup if he does well this year. Profiles as a mid-rotation type. I see him topping out as a good #3.
Armstrong has yet to throw a professional pitch but has the measurables and scout hype to be included on this list. His injury history prevented him from being a 1st round pick but with a good debut in Lexington or Lancaster (assuming he's allowed to start in full-season) he will get a lot of attention. He's one of the few players with true ace potential, but everything would have to go positively for him, especially staying healthy. I can also see him being moved to the bullpen down the road.
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Finally, here's the relievers:
System Grade: C
Viable Prospects (grade):
Rhiner Cruz (C-)
Josh Zeid (C-)
Jason Stoffel (C-)
Jorge De Leon (C-)
Others:
Chia-Jen Lo - once highly thought-of reliever had his career derailed by injury
Arcenio Leon - on 40 man, has heat, lacks control
Chris Hicks - needs to build on good 2011
Jason Chowning - Lexington's closer last year
Dayan Diaz - fantastic numbers in 2011 make him worth watching
Kyle Greenwalt - former member of the Lexington Five has fallen by the wayside
Mickey Storey - AAA reliever could help the big league team if he gets hot
Henry Villar - AAA reliever could help the big league team if he gets hot
Blake King - AAA reliever could help the big league team if he gets hot
Pat Urckfitz- LOOGY was on fast track but fell off last year
Cruz, the Rule 5 pick, is the classic flamethrower who lacks control. He's still young enough to improve, and with his velocity, the potential to be a big league closer still exists.
Zeid came over as the 4th piece in the Pence deal. He has a power arm but has yet to put it all together. Probably not closer material, but if he has a good year this season he could end up as a setup man.
Stoffel was the return in the Keppinger trade along with Henry Sosa. Could end up as a poor man's Huston Street.
De Leon is a former shortstop who converted to reliever 2 seasons ago and has pitched well. The former regime thought enough of him to protect him on the 40 man roster, and the current regime has yet to designate him when needing roster space, so that tells me he may have a future.
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Projected 2015 Roster:
Lineup:
CF George Springer
2B Jose Altuve
1B Jonathan Singleton
RF Domingo Santana
LF JD Martinez
DH Fernando Martinez
3B Jimmy Paredes
C Jason Castro
SS Jonathan Villar
Bench: OF Austin Wates, IF Jiovanni Mier, IF Marwin Gonzalez, C Chris Wallace
Rotation: Jarred Cosart, Jordan Lyles, Bud Norris, Brett Oberholzter, Paul Clemens
Bullpen: Kyle Weiland, Dallas Keuchel, Mike Foltynewicz, Jack Armstrong, Jr., Wilton Lopez, Rhiner Cruz, David Carpenter
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A little off topic, but kind of on topic.
Why wouldn’t the Astros try to put a bid on Jorge Soler or another young Cuban prospect? Soler is only gonna be 20 or so, and would fit that same age group as guys like Singleton and Cosart and a few of our other young prospects.
I trust Luhnow to leave no stone unturned. Honestly I think eventually we will have the opposite worry of the FO overspending on int’l free agents and draftees.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 10:48 AM CST up reply actions
I would love to see them add Soler
I believe this is the last year there is no limit on international signings, correct?
This is the time to spend a lot on a premium international prospect if there ever was one.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I found this on mlb.com
The international system will be somewhat similar, with a pool and penalties for exceeding that pool. For the 2012-13 signing period, every team will have the same pool of $2.9 million. Starting in 2013-14, the pools will be based on the prior season’s winning percentage, with a range of approximately $1.7 million to $4.8 million
It looks like you’re correct about this being the last year that it’s a free for all. Assuming they have the same rules for Cuban players.
The 2012 international signing period begins at the end of June and the international pool caps apparently begin at that time. For international signing purposes, I think he is considered Nicaraguan, where he moved after he defected. Reportedly, Soler will require a signing bonus in excess of $15 million. He is 3 or 4 years from the majors, but he may turn out to be worth it.
Like all the grades but
why only a B+ for Springer. You said CF is a premium position, he is considered a 5-tool player. So what made you not give him an A. Also http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/10/2011-farm-system-rankings/ that link is the farm systems rated last year, we were ranked 23rd. I agree with you this year we should be around 19 or 20.
Springer doesn’t have any track record other than a handful of at bats in a short season league. Still is raw for a college player and has strikeout issues. Hard to give anything higher than a B+
I agree with Springer’s grading by Snake. I even think it might be generous. A’s should be reserved for that almost-can’t-miss guy like Taillon, Strasburg, Trout, Harper, etc. The Astros don’t have a guy who sniffs that level of projectability at this point.
I actually debated heavily on the B+ grades for Springer, Singleton, and Cosart. In the past I have been grossly overly optimistic with prospect grading, so I’m still trying to get in the habit of tempering my expectations. In hindsight, those 3 should all probably be “B” grades, with Lyles being dropped to a “B-”. I’m pretty comfortable with all of the other grades.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 10:47 AM CST up reply actions
Wow. Nice job Snake. Details galore.
by conroestro on Jan 18, 2012 8:55 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Thanks. There’s very little stats involved in this overview, as that would have increased the level of effort by an order of magnitude. But I do think it can serve as a useful resource for folks who want to know who all the players are and what their basic profiles are.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 10:50 AM CST up reply actions
Question on Springer
What level do you think he gets started at next season? He’s to raw for Corpus. They could start him at Lexington ala Mike Kvasnicka. Or the launching pad Lancaster. I suppose Lancaster is the most likely choice, I’m just not looking forward to if he performs well all of the National Media blaming the Lancaster effect as the reason why.
by conroestro on Jan 18, 2012 9:35 AM CST via mobile reply actions
I’m guessing Lexington. But who knows. Springer is not an overly polished player for a college guy….which is why I think Lexington is likely. But Luhnow did say that he favors pushing star type prospects more quickly, which could put Springer in Lancaster.
I believe they started Castro in Lancaster for his first full year, but he was considered to be pretty polished. I wouldn’t mind sending a less refined Springer to Lexington, but they’d need to quickly get him up to Lancaster. He’s going to be 23 in September so he’s pretty old for a first year player.
I’m guessing Lancaster, although Lexington wouldn’t surprise me. Wates will be the CF in Corpus. Jay Austin will be the CF wherever Springer isn’t.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 10:44 AM CST up reply actions
It may be a good idea to give Austin another shot at Lancaster.
by conroestro on Jan 18, 2012 1:55 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
At this point I think Austin should be an afterthought to Springer. You decide where the best place to put Springer is, and stick Austin in the other spot.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 3:10 PM CST up reply actions
Sorting out the corner OF prospects
On a list like this, I would probably break the OFs into 2 groups rather than 3, with those being CFs and Corner OFs. It’s just very difficult to sort out who profiles better as a RF than a LF without having a lot of data and scouting reports on many of the corner men. In your listing of Corner OFs, you could then touch upon the ones who are known to have bigger arms and thus profile better as RFs (i.e., Emilio King, Adam Bailey, Jon Gaston, Ariel Ovando; Gaston and King should definitely be in the RF section of your original list, though I do not expect Gaston to survive spring training).
Good point. I sorted them based on a combination of where they have played in the past and what I’ve heard/read.
King has played all around, but last season he played mostly LF and with Santana fairly certain to be the everyday RF in Lancaster and King’s performance warranting a promotion, he’d be the LF in Lancaster.
Gaston’s another one who’s played all around. I’m fairly certain that Wates and Bailey will be the CF and RF in Corpus, respectively. And Schafer/Shuck and Goebbert will have those spots in AAA. So if he survives ST, regardless of whether he gets put in AA or AAA, he’s likely to get most of his time in LF.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 3:09 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah, the potential of having 2+ RF prospects on the same farm team is another good reason not to separate the LFs from RFs and instead group them collectively as corner OFs.
Corner OF versus LF/RF
I think you are right as far as grouping them together, because a RF can play both LF and RF but a LF usually cannot play RF well because of the lack of arm. It is a huge difference, for example grouping JD Martinez and Fernando Martinez as the corner outfielders would not work if another RF was not available, since they both don’t have the arm strength and range to play RF.
Fernando Martinez has plenty of arm for RF
But the range requirement to play RF in MMP may be too great for him depending on how much his knee problems have affected his mobility. I also think JD Martinez probably has enough arm for RF but he plays much better in LF due to his lack of mobility.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Yes, Fernando Martinez’s arm is impressive—-I have seen it in spring training games. Whether his knees permit him to play RF well probably won’t be known until spring training. The Mets’ organization played him mostly in RF last year (52 G in RF; 12 G in CF; 9 G in LF). For what it’s worth, Total Zone rated F-Mart’s minor league defense in RF as average (0).
J.D. Martinez’s arm strength was supposed to be sub-par, but he threw well last year from LF, earning him the nickname “armgun” on TCB threads. Accuracy and quick release are more important than strength in LF, and I think that is why he excelled with the arm.
F-Mart for RF
I think a stronger arm is more needed than mobility in RF, but the guy can’t be a pet rock out there either. I think it also depends on who plays CF, if Bogusevic plays CF to try to increase power in our lineup, I think an outfield of Bogusevic CF, F-Mart RF and JD in LF might be pretty bad. Now is Schafer is in CF then F-Mart in RF and JD in LF might be more attractive. I know I keep preaching this but JD is not a RF and should not be placed there, he can barely play LF because of the knees and arm. (not sure why people keep putting him in RF and Lee in LF, that is not going to happen or should not happen more than a couple times a year at most.)
LOOGYs
A minor nitpick but Urckfitz doesn’t really profile as a LOOGY prospect since his numbers vs LHBs and RHBs are similar and not particularly good either. Wes Musick is probably the Astros’ top LOOGY prospect from high A ball up. I think that’s his future and see him as a potential fast riser in 2012 given that he’s got the major college background (as a starter) and has pitched most of his professional games in 2 pretty terrible locales – Asheville and Lancaster.
Cool. I had assumed that Urckfitz had been used as a LOOGY but hadn’t actually looked it up. Musick is an interesting prospect. He seemed to do well in Lancaster in the 2nd half. Hopefully they give him a shot as a reliever in Corpus and he can move up quickly like you suggested.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 18, 2012 3:26 PM CST up reply actions
Your grading seems really weird to me SD
In some prospects you seem to be following the John Sickels model. In others you seem to be veering off into your own system. There are some grades which just seem bizarre/contradictory, too; for instance, I don’t see how a guy like Jason Castro can be grade C while the top prospects in the minors are B+. He was a B/B+ guy in the minors and his stock hasn’t dropped anywhere near that much.
Thanks for your work though! It’s clear you put a lot of time into this.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
But the injuries are a concern
Along with a year of development lost. Maybe C+ to start with, and see how the season goes.
by pacbellpilgrim on Jan 19, 2012 7:47 AM CST up reply actions
He is at least a B-, probably a straight grade B in terms of value
If SD is going by Sickels’ grading system I disagree with the majority of these grades… I don’t think he is though. But it is hard to figure out his system with big contradictions like these. Another example is Altuve getting a B- from SD when a guy like Cosart is a B+? (???)
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
See my article yesterday, but Castro’s injuries are not a big concern in the short term. The fact he has already played some is a very good sign. He had a very good time frame for recovery and should be fine. The foot injury is a non-factor IMO. It’s a simple compensation injury. Castro will be fine and can have a close to normal catcher shelf life.
I like Sickels’ grading system, but used my own. A general key:
Grade – Expected Player Outcome
A – Perennial All-Star
B- Above average starter
C- Average starter
So, I expect Castro to be an average starting catcher during his prime. His injuries have lowered his grade from me. I expect Altuve to be a good starting 2B and maybe even make an all-star appearance or two (at best). I expect Cosart to be either a very good #2 starter or a closer, making several all-star games, hence the higher grade. (I realize I’m placing undue emphasis on the AS game, but it’s more of a symbol than anything; I guess I could use WAR instead.)
by Snake Diggity on Jan 19, 2012 10:36 AM CST up reply actions
Also, a (C-) grade would be a player that I think ends up as a bench guy, middle reliever, or AAAA player.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 19, 2012 10:39 AM CST up reply actions
It sounds like you are ignoring floor and only looking at ceiling
No offense SD but I think that’s a really bad way to look at prospects.
I also still think Castro has the ceiling of an above average regular.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I’m not looking at ceiling alone. I’m making a subjective judgement on what I think the player will actually end up being. It’s your prerogative to think I’m wrong. I’m not butthurt, but pretty much anytime anyone uses the phrase “no offense”, they’re about to say something offensive.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 19, 2012 11:53 AM CST up reply actions
A good resource
Sets us up well for the year to come – it will be fun to see who makes progress out of this group.
Great write up!
I agree with most everything and this gets me even more ready for baseball to start heating up!
by Its Gonna Happen on Jan 22, 2012 5:29 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Injury Reports
Chron.com has some prospect injury reports of interest:
Vincent Velasquez is "good to go," Nelson said as the former second-round pick prepares for his first season back from Tommy John surgery, which cost him the 2010 campaign.
Velasquez may not make a full season roster even if he has a good spring. Nelson said that the Astros may hold him in extended spring training to control his innings load and then send him to short-season Class A Tri-City for the June-Labor Day schedule.
• A perhaps forgotten name to some, Chia-Jen Lo’s sad story continues, as the Astros expect him to miss at least most of the season after Tommy John surgery toward the end of 2010. He was among the top prospects until elbow problems derailed his 2010 season and allowed him only two innings in 2011.
Nelson said that the club is now looking at a return at the end of the season as an optimistic projection.
It’s good to hear that Velasquez is back on track. If he can get past this TJ surgery with his velocity intact, I think he has a ton of potential.
Too bad for Lo. If he hadn’t suffered these arm injuries, he could have been in the running for a closer role.
A good year in Tri-Cities will have VV’s stock higher than ever.
Tough break on Lo.
I absolutely can’t wait for the minor league rosters to be set.
by Snake Diggity on Feb 3, 2012 12:15 PM CST up reply actions

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