Is J.B. Shuck the Astros Best Option in Center Field?
I think fans and prospect evaluators have been calling J.B. Shuck a future 4th outfielder for so long, that it has crept into our minds as an inevitability. However, we might be selling the guy short. Especially considering the team Shuck plays for. Are Jordan Shafer and Jason Bourgeois clearly better options for center field than the lone survivor of the Shuck, T.J. Steele, Jonathan Gaston dream outfield?
The answer will depend on how well Shuck plays defense in center field. The defensive zone/ range factor type stats that he has put up in the minor leagues are not very promising. He is fast, but he's not Michael Bourn fast. He's not even Jason Bourgeois fast. He won't get to balls that Bourn got to, or balls that Bourgeois can get to. But, we're not talking about Shuck starting over Bourn. We're talking about whether Shuck should start over Jordan Schafer or Jason Bourgeois. I think the offense Shuck can provide makes him a viable option to receive the lion's share of time in center field. At least until someone within in the system can take the position from him.
First of all, from an offensive standpoint, Bourgeois isn't an everyday player. He is the perfect platoon partner with either Shuck or Shafer, though. This year he has been fairly phenomenal against lefties (.382/.408/.515), but terrible against righties (.245/.259/.291). That slash line against righties just doesn't cut it. It's amazing that he has gotten 110 at bats, most of which, at the top of the Astros' order, with a .259 OBP and just 2 walks against righties.
So, Jordan Schafer is Shuck's real competition. He has a reputation of being a solid defensive outfielder. He was also once a top 50 prospect. However, a P.E.D. suspension and a failure to take off offensively at the big league level has dropped his stock significantly. It is the Astros hope that they bought low on a guy who can become a Michael Bourn-type player. And, to be clear, it appears he is the organizations favorite to take over the centerfield job.
J.B. Shuck, on the other hand, hasn't appeared to be a big part of Houston's plan. When it came to promotions, Houston opted for J.D. Martinez and Brian Bogusevic over Shuck. And, in preparation for a possible Michael Bourn trade, Houston went out and got the speedy Luis Durango off the waiver wire. It took Shuck winning player of the month award in Oklahoma City for the Astros to take notice of how he was hitting in July and August. Because Schafer, acquired in the Michael Bourn trade, was injured, the Astros went with the plan B they put in place a few weeks earlier, and called up Luis Durango. Durango spent two days with Houston, Shuck was awarded player of the month, someone in the front office noticed that Shuck had posted an 1.000 OPS since the PCL all-star break, and the team quickly corrected the oversight. Shuck was called up, and Durango was optioned back down.
Since his call-up, Shuck has done what he has done his whole career: Get on base. Shuck's sample size so far with Houston is far too small to make any kind of judgement on what kind of offense can be expected out of him. However, because of his track record, it is reasonable to expect that he will continue to produce at the level he has in his first 40 plate appearances. So far, he has posted a .360 OBP with a 12% walk rate. Both of those numbers fall right in line with what he has always done in the minors. His strikeout rate will likely come up from the 2% it is at now, but his BABIP will also likely settle much higher than his current .286 mark. Schafer and Bourgeois are much less likely to post a .360 OBP, ever. Bourgeois has 1 more walk than Shuck so far this year despite having 150 more plate appearances. None of the players in the mix for the centerfield spot will provide any power, so, it will come down to Shuck's OBP and Schafer's defense. Or more to the point, Shuck's defense and Shafer's OBP. Whichever player can close the gap in his perceived deficiency will be the better player.
When Schafer returns from the disabled list sometime this week, the Astros will have to make a decision on who has to be released or sent back to triple-A. With Bogusevic and Shafer both being left-handed bats, Shuck, also a lefty, seems to be a likely candidate to go back to Oklahoma City, at least until rosters expand in September. It will be interesting to see how Shuck is handled in the near future. Despite possibly being the Astros best option for center field, Shuck will face an uphill battle even getting a roster spot next year considering all of the left-handed bats the Astros look likely to feature.
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Personally, I view Shuck as a marginal prospect. I think he may carve out a living as a 4th or 5th outfielder in the majors. Having watched him in a few games so far, I think he is not an adequate fielder in MMP’s CF. He has speed, but his routes are poor, and his arm is sub-par. What I have seen in a very small sample is consistent with the reports I had heard from the minors—as well as the scouting reports of other teams, as evidenced by Bob Brenly’s scouting report on him in the Cubs series. It’s unfortunate for Shuck that he plays for a team with one of the most difficult CFs to cover in the majors. If Shuck was an above average CFer, his offensive ability would be sufficient to be a starter. If Jordan Shaffer is as good a defensive CFer as he is given credit, I think he has to be the leading candidate.
Im definitely ready to see what Schafer brings to the table. He was thought of very highly in the Braves organization. Maybe he can put it together in a less pressured environment with the Astros.
by conroestro on Aug 21, 2011 12:42 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree with all of this
Schafer should be penciled in to get a lot of playing time, on through next season. It’s his job to lose.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
As much as I do not like Schafer as an all around player, I don’t see Shuck or Bourgeous as everyday players. Hopefully Barnett can get ahold of Schafer and turn him around at the plate, but no matter what, these guys seem to be, IMO just stop gaps until Springer is ready.
If the roster move was up to me: Schafer would come off the DL and start in CF with Shuck and Bourgeous on the bench as the 4th and 5th outfielders which then means that Jason Michaels is released and Bogusevic is the rightfielder.
I will almost bet anyone that when Schafer comes up either Shuck or Bogey goes down. I dont know why JMike is untouchable but it seems like he is.
I think either Shuck will go down, or they will try to go minus a pitcher until September and keep all of the OFers up.
I am not going to hold my breath. I think that we need to figure out the outfield now for next year. I have been saying since the first time he was brought up but Bogey has to get some AB’s the guy has all the tools he just needs the opportunity. I am very dissappointed the way the roster has gone this year. We needed to find some things out and it doesnt seem like Mills is on board with the youth movement
Schafer is absolutely the best option at CF.
He’s the best defensively, and probably offensively. He hasn’t put up the numbers that he did while in the minors, but even if he underachieved in Atlanta, he still has talent, and maybe a change of scenery will get him back on track.
Let’s not forget, this guy was once one of the top prospects in all of baseball. He’s tearing it up at OKC, so it makes sense to give him a long look.
If he by some chance turns it around and starts to hit like he did in the minors, we got a hell of a player.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
you do realize that Shafer hasn’t had what could be described as a decent year (minors or majors) since 2008. I hope he does well, and he will get the opportunity. My belief is that the Astros should continue to look at Shuck in CF because the defensive gap may not as great as the offensive gap between the two players.
I realize that.
I just like what he brings to the table.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 21, 2011 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Shuck was drafted in ‘08 when Schafer was in the midst of a nice season in AA. Since then, Shuck has put up a .388 OBP and a .779 OPS moving through Houston’s farm system while Schafer has floundered at 4 levels in the Braves system struggling to post an OBP above .300. Also, in that time frame (June of 2008 to present), Shuck has produced a higher SLG% than Schafer. Schafer may be better defensively, but I don’t see how you can conclude that he is better offensively.
Schafer
Has only had 548 total plate appearances 2009-2011 in the minor leagues, and during that time there were numerous disruptions, from a 50-game suspension, to wrist injury, to premature call-up to the majors, being sent back down, on the list goes. Because of all of this I don’t think you can easily use his recent statistics to analyze his projected performance.
His tools, on the other hand, have always been admired by scouts. If he can have a time of smooth development I think we will see at least some gradual improvement by him, and there’s a chance he could explode.
Shuck is that guy you give all the backhanded compliment cliches—“gritty, plays the game the right way, hard-nosed player”. His scouting reports are pretty mediocre and he’s pretty much maxed out right now in terms of his potential.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Yeah, he’s missed some time due to injuries and violating the league’s PED policy, but I don’t know if that should completely erase what the guy has done in 952 plate appearances since the start of 2009. What could explain his .524 OPS last year in the minors? Was he playing with a broken arm? I think this is a case of “What’s new, is better.”
Schafer has had a very rough couple of years
Due to fluke injuries, suspension, etc. Also, I don’t agree that Shuck is likely to be a much better offensive player than Schafer. He won’t maintain these numbers. I see Schafer currently as roughly a .240/.305/.325 player and Shuck currently as a .260/.320/.320 player. Schafer has a higher ceiling and more potential to improve, as well.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
What is your reasoning that Schafer’s MLB OBP will be 20 points lower than his minor league OPS, but Shuck’s will be 70 points lower?
Fluke injuries and that suspension in 2007 are your explanation as to why Schafer has had a couple (3) of rough years. But you don’t give an explanation for the conclusion about Shuck. Just a simple, “He won’t maintain these numbers.”
Because Shuck has had continuous, smooth, uninterrupted development
And Schafer has not. Shuck’s scouting reports are also not as positive as Schafer’s.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
So, because of Shuck’s uninterrupted development (also known as succeeding at every level), his actual real world performance is less of an indicator than what scouts thought about Schafer 2 years ago, when he actually boasted decent on base skills and power (real or not)? Because, from what I can find, there hasn’t been a lot of positive noise about Schafer in the last 2 years.
Shuck's success at every level is paltry
He’s only been a little above average offensively for each league as a guy who is already at his ceiling.
It’s less about Schafer being an amazing prospect than Shuck being a mid-level grade C prospect without much potential. Neither guy projects to be a good CF in the present, it’s just that Schafer has more upside, and I think right now (with our team being as bad as it is), we need to focus on the guys with the most potential.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
If you are talking about his overall OPS, yes his success is paltry, but his OBP, probably the most important part of his game, is well above average. Anyways, I don’t think Shuck is a star. I think he is Ryan Sweeney without the height. I think I agree with you about Shuck, but disagree on Schafer. I didn’t like him when we got him in the trade, I don’t really think he has much upside. I would just rather have a guy who is likely to get on base 35% of the time hold down the CF position until something better comes along.
Would you trade Schafer for Sweeney to hold down CF until something better comes along? I would. That’s my only point.
Fun to listen in on your conversation – good food for thought on both sides
by pacbellpilgrim on Aug 21, 2011 8:26 PM CDT up reply actions
I was really down on Schafer when we first traded for him
The more I’ve researched about him, the more I’ve grown to like him. I think there’s a non-zero chance he could become as good as Michael Bourn, and I just don’t see that happening for Shuck, ever.
As for the Sweeney comp, I think that’s very optimistic for Shuck, offensively. I think Shuck is a slap hitter who has been taking advantage of minor league defenses to produce his batting average, which I think will be substantially lower at the major league level. That .260/.320/.320 line I pulled out of my ass earlier is just a guess, but I think it’s a reasonable one.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I agree that there is a chance that Schafer could pan out and be as good as Bourn. I also agree that there is NO chance that Shuck turns out to be as good as Bourn.
I just think that Shuck has a better chance to produce an OPS over .700 than Schafer does.
I don’t think the Sweeney comp is so optimistic. They put up similar numbers in the minors. Sweeney had more power and Shuck with more OBP and stolen bases.
I can only assume you are answering the question posed in the first paragraph: “Are Jordan Shafer and Jason Bourgeoise clearly better options for center field than the lone survivor of the Shuck, T.J. Steele, Jonathan Gaston dream outfield?”
While I agree with your conclusion, I think the topic deserves more consideration.
fair enough
I have nothing against the shuck wagon sharing time to end the season, but for 2012, considering schafer was the one MLB player we got in the trades you got to make him your number 1 option. like other have already said its his to lose and thats how it should be.
It's Bourgeois
And, just for the record, I’m not a big fan of Jordan Schafer after watching him play in Atlanta for the last two years.
Shuck looks like he would make a great 5th OF. Bats lefty, can play all 3 spots, adequate baserunner, strong in the clubhouse.
It’s very, very unlikely he has the power to play the corner or the defense to play center.
I’d like to see Bogusevic given a shot at the everyday RF job. He may have a chance to be a very good player.
Schafer should be given 1st crack at CF at least until another CF comes up and undeniably deserves the job.
Martinez is set in LF.
Bourgeois is a great 4th OF, but a below average everyday player. Hefty splits, good speed, he has a place on the team, as a sub.
I think you have to give Bogey a shot ...
… because he was such a high draft pick. I’m not overly optimistic, however. I just don’t see much out of him. All I see is stupid plays like him knocking Altuve’s legs out from under. That was clearly Bogey’s responsibility last night to either call off Altuve or get out of his way and instead he just plows right into the back of Jose.
by super_shredder on Aug 23, 2011 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
More food for thought - Obviously, Shuck's legs aren't made of wood and rusty hinges
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=17689315
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=18118179
http://houston.astros.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?c_id=hou&content_id=18331961&topic_id=8879126
(If you hang around after that last video, it will play Bogusevic’s super slam :)
actually, on the last video, you have to navigate over to “Shuck lays out to make catch in the gap”
Here’s a fan video of the same catch
I think the diving catch against the Cubs is the one that raised Brenly’s criticism of Shuck’s defense on WGN. Brenly said he had a poor route to the ball, and that he shouldn’t have had to dive for the ball. Then Brenly gave the scouting report on his defense.
One can look good at the plate but that wont make him productive at the plate
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
I hope that J.S. can show an improvement in his hitting and defense each year like Bourn did.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"

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