Report: Astros Complete PTBNL With Phillies, Add Domingo Santana
by David Coleman on Aug 15, 2011 11:54 AM CDT
in Houston Astros Minor League News
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PrintThe Phillies blog Phoul Ballz is reporting that the Astros will receive Domingo Santana as the fourth and final player from the Hunter Pence trade. If you'll remember, Santana was one of the players on the Lakeland Blue Crabs and the Astros were rumored to have a list of players from that team they could choose.
Santana was certainly the most intriguing name on that list. As a five-tool player, Santana has a chance to rocket up the Astros system. His peformance has not matched his tools yet, but he's still got the potential to be a pretty good player and is much better than just a throw-in.
The bigger question now is: can you make a case that every player in the Hunter Pence trade was better than any of the players in the Michael Bourn trade. I don't think it's a case you would win, but it can certainly be made. That makes me pretty sad.
What do you think? I know OremLK will like this move, as he's been pushing for Santana for a while now. Certainly, he feels like a nice addition to what was already a very nice trade for Houston. Will have more on him in the next day or so.
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I like to compare this last year’s type hauls. Santana is a lot like Villar and Paredes as very toolsy players with little plate discipline and polish. Those trades were almost centered around those players, Santana is a 4th piece. Huge difference. Of course contracts and age have a huge impact on that. But, the fact is, this makes it a huge haul.
Santana is a LOT like Ariel Ovando, guys
So if you like Ovando, you should be a big fan of this move.
Santana may even leapfrog Ovando on our top ten prospects lists from BA and slip into that tenth slot.
Overall, this trade is a very nice haul now and I think the Astros came out just short of robbing the Phillies blind.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Wow.
Better potential than Ovando? I have a hard time seeing that. Ovando’s ceiling is a legitimate All-Star caliber player.
But, if Santana can start producing, I’ll but into him.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
*buy into him
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions
They have about the same potential
I’ve seen 65, 70 power potential in scouting reports about Santana, both have some questions about their hit tool, but good all-around tools to be above average defensive right fielders.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Both are RFs?
Nice.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes!!!
Santana is EXACTLY who I hoped we would get. Man, this was a great trade for Houston…
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 12:01 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
alysonfooter Alyson Footer
The Astros have selected outfielder Domingo Santana as the player to be named to complete the Pence trade with the Phillies.
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 15, 2011 12:01 PM CDT reply actions
Now imagine how happy we'd all be
if Wade hadn’t fumbled the Bourn trade…yes still pissed
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
I don’t think the Bourn trade was as bad as people are making it out to be. By the looks of it, teams just weren’t willing to offer top prospects up for Bourn. I don’t agree with that, but I’m satisfied that what we got was likely the best offer that was on the table.
Two potential middle rotation starters (who can contribute as early as next year), a hard throwing reliever, and a lottery ticket center fielder seems a fair return for a year and a half of Bourn, in my humble opinion.
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 12:08 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
alysonfooter Alyson Footer
Santana is 19 years old and was ranked as the 9th best prospect in Phillies system. He will report to Class A Lexington.
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 15, 2011 12:02 PM CDT reply actions
Well I wanted Bonilla - we need SP.
But Santana is young enough and toolsy enough to still turn into a star. The power is there as evidenced by his 6 Hr’s in his first season. Seems like he has speed as well he just doesnt know how to use it. Atleast one of these guys we got from Philly is going to be the real deal.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 12:03 PM CDT reply actions
I liked Bonilla slightly more but Santana does have huge upside
Santana probably has a higher ceiling than Bonilla, although he’s less likely to reach it. Also, to be fair, we already got a ton of pitching between the Keppinger, Pence, and Bourn deals.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Footer's saying the Astros had a choice between 2 players
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 12:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'm not complaining .
Great, great pickup. Wade won. No doubt.
Now if we can sign Stubble Armstrong and of course Springer – this could be a historic day for Astros fans!!!
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 12:07 PM CDT reply actions
alysonfooter Alyson Footer
Santana hit .269 with 29 doubles, four triples, seven home runs and 32 RBIs for Lakewood (Class A).
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 15, 2011 12:08 PM CDT reply actions
If we sign Springer,
our farmsystem has to be top 12. Have a ton of high ceiling prospects.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
I don't know about Top 12...
Jim Callis said in a recent chat that if we sign Springer and Armstrong, we could have a “middle of the pack” (14 to 18 ranked) farm system. But still, that’s fantastic compared to past seasons.
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 12:15 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
It's an enormous step forward from last season.
Last year, we only had a few high ceiling prospects.
Now, we have a lot more.
Bravo, Ed Wade.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions
Did you just praise Ed Wade?
I need to take a snapshot of this moment so I can remember it forever haha.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions
Praising or defending Wade even the slightest makes me feel dirty.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Really?
I know this is a broken record and an argument that has been had many a time on TCB, but I’m not as badly against him as most. He’s rebuilt the unequivocally worst farm system to an above average one, been stuck with horrible contracts and a tight budget, and developed some solid talent. In free agency, he’s sucked, but he’s made some good moves (the Pence deal) and I think his worst moves (the Bourn deal especially) were motivated by owners.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 3:45 PM CDT up reply actions
that
and the core of the phillies are pretty good. which he drafted
by strokin_stros on Aug 15, 2011 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Ive defended Wade before as I know he doesnt deserve all of the blame
for the state of the franchise right now. Drayton deserves a lot of the himself. Ed has done a decent job given what he has had to work with here. I completely agree with Wade having built the core of Philly’s team which is why I dont get upset like some when we trade with them. He knows their system (players) and their scouting department pretty well plus Amaro doesn’t seem like the type of GM that tries to screw over his trading partners.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Only the Astros Fans
Believe in half these guys. Are system will still be trash. We thought MAnzella was worth a damn…
by FunkytownKing on Aug 15, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Correction
“our” not “Are”..sorry that was piss poor
by FunkytownKing on Aug 15, 2011 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions
Nah... not top 12 we are greatly improved
but whereas we now have a collection of good prospects with at least one at most positions, most teams have more depth of legitimate prospects at each position, and many still have more depth and more top prospects. I would put us between 16-20 in strength of minors… of course organizationally we would be further down than that because of the majors but that is not really a concern right now.
29 doubles? 4 triples? 7 Hr's? 19 years old? In a pitchers league?
Awesome. Curtis Granderson upside is not out of the picture.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 12:11 PM CDT reply actions
My theory
Pence trade lower ranks but higher ceiling
Bourn trade higher ranks but lower ceiling for an all around improved farm system
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
by Ryan Perrio on Aug 15, 2011 12:12 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
My theory
Pence trade lower ranks but higher ceiling
Bourn trade higher ranks but lower ceiling for an all around improved farm system
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity
by Ryan Perrio on Aug 15, 2011 12:12 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I’ll be shocked if we’re below 15 now. Imagine if the kids in Houston (Martinez, Altuve, Lyles, Paredes, etc.) hadn’t been promoted…we’d probably be looking at a top 10 system for sure.
I think so, assuming of course that we sign Springer
We’d have to be fairly high in the farm rankings. I think even with this move we’re still middle of the pack, but that’s not bad considering we promoted some quality prospects this year in Lyles, Altuve, and Martinez.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Paredes is still eligible.
He’s looking very good too.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 12:14 PM CDT reply actions
I’m really digging Paredes, more so than Altuve or Martinez even. He has the chance to be a special player in terms of your typical 3rd baseman.
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 12:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Paredes saw the second most pitches per at bat in majors yesterday
Per Olney. Just 3 AB, but that still surprised me.
by pacbellpilgrim on Aug 15, 2011 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Over at The Good Phight,
their fans are pissed.
They say Santana is a risky prospect, but he had the highest ceiling out of all the Phillies prospects, including Cosart and Singleton.
FUCK. YES.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
His ceiling is similar to Singleton, Cosart
But keep in mind his floor is lower. It’s nice to keep adding high ceiling depth though. Hopefully we can get one starting-quality right fielder between Ovando and Santana and perhaps even an all-star.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
He could be Jay Austin
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 12:29 PM CDT up reply actions
Quite possible, but it's good to roll the dice on these guys
When one breaks out and realizes his full potential, you have a star.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Hey! Jay Austin never struck out close to that much
by MadMartygan on Aug 15, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah, that is the key.
We just need one of them to pan out…which is a good plan in my opinion, you really have 4 guys in Singleton/Nash/Ovando/Santana that COULD see a substantial development spike and turn into a solid middle of the order bat. If just 2 of those guys reach their potential, we will be in great shape.
The great thing is that we now have fallback plans at several positions
1B – Wallace/Singleton/Nash
OF – JD/Springer/Ovando/Santana
2B – Altuve/DDJ
SS – Villar/Mier
3B – Paredes/Kvansicka
Ha ha ha...
I was reading that, too. Maybe Phils phans will finally shut up about Houston being their farm team.
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 12:18 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah, it's ugly
But he’s young and still has a lot to learn with his approach at the plate. Big hit tool questions for both him and Ovando (whose BB/K is also ugly).
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Wow.
He’s got some work to do.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions
Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=9eCnHYzVshw
He’s another high socks guy to complete the set.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I would call it more of a "yellow flag"
It’s something he definitely needs to improve on, but it’s not like he’s a 24-year old at AAA ball here. He’s just scratching the surface of his pro career and has plenty of time to work on it.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
This is basically a boom or bust pick up, and I’m ok with that. He’s the 4th guy in the trade, so why not buy a lottery ticket.
by MadMartygan on Aug 15, 2011 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions
He definitely fits in with the Astro philosophy.
by MadMartygan on Aug 15, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions
Off topic but - Singleton only has 3 walks so far in our system. 16 Ks
Concerning… Are we changing his mechanics?
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 12:24 PM CDT reply actions
Looking more and more like 2014 is the year instead of 2013.
Singelton/Ovando/Santana have their best shot of making an impact in about 3 years. Going to be a long road. BTW, I am not complaining, because the future looks really bright.
If it works out, you hopefully have Altuve, Martinez and Springer as your foundation in 2014, with Singleton as a big power/moderate BA complimentary piece and hopefully at least one of Ovando/Santana making a big push for playing time. Throw in Paredes and Villar and you may actually have something to look forward to.
I know we were all hopeful that we would be relevant again by 2013, but it really looks like 2014 at best to me. We can hope for a rotation of Bud/Lyles/Cosart/Folty/Oberholtzer – and we will just have to wait and see how the lineup plays out in support of Altuve/JD/Singleton and hopefully Springer. Just going to depend on the development of DDJ, Villar, Paredes, Mier, Nash, Wallace and a few others.
I think the idea is to compile multiple quality, high-ceiling prospects at every position at every level so that the odds of having at least 1 major league starter develop at each position within a 2-4 year period are high. I think the Houston system is almost to that point, if you take only players who are should be in full season ball next year and/or will be under team control for the next 3-5 years:
C: Castro, C. Wallace (other, legitimate but not quite as highly thought-of prospects include Heath, Pena, Garcia, Hamblin, Genoves, etc.)
1B: Wallace, Hinze, Singleton, Nash (others include Johnson, Davidson)
2B: Altuve, DeShields (others include Thompson, Hernandez, etc.)
SS: Villar, Mier (others include Batista, Fernandez, Wikoff, J. Santana, etc.)
3B: Paredes, CJ (others include Meyer, Kvas, Duffy, Rivera)
RF: Ovando, D. Santana, Springer (others include Goebbert, Gaston, Adamson, etc.)
CF: Schafer, Wates, Austin (others include Durango, Scott, Reynolds)
LF: Martinez (others include Bailey, DeLome, Epps, Monzon, Vizcaino, etc.)
I think the farm is strong in the OF and 1B. There’s not much highly thought of depth in the IF, although I have much confidence in Castro, Altuve, Villar, and Paredes. There’s still a lot riding on the very few high-ceiling SP in the system (mainly Folty and Cosart). There’s loads of potential future #3-5 SPs and tons of bullpen guys, although there may be a need for more elite-closer types. Overall the farm has taken a GIGANTIC leap forward this year and can probably be counted on to provide a few solid MLBers each year for the next 2-5 years. Another rebuilding year in which Wandy and any other veterans on the roster are traded for even more prospects can only hasten the arrival of a new foundation of winning astros’ teams.
by Snake Diggity on Aug 15, 2011 2:31 PM CDT up reply actions
Interesting to compare Nash to Santana
They have been in the same league, but Nash is about a year and a half older.
Santana is quite a bit taller.
Both strike out a lot.
Nash has better patience and power so far.
by pacbellpilgrim on Aug 15, 2011 12:30 PM CDT reply actions
Santana has far better defensive tools though
Nash is a 1B only, Santana should be an above average defensive right fielder.
I think Santana’s ceiling could be Nelson Cruz. However his floor is very low and it’s quite possible he could never see a day in the majors.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Agreed on the defense difference
He ranks ahead of Nash overall in my book.
I really like Santana as our fourth guy in the trade.
by pacbellpilgrim on Aug 15, 2011 12:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Let's see if I can finally get a list right:
Top 10 overall prospects (assuming we sign Springer):
1. Jonathan Singleton 1B – ETA: 2013
2. Jarred Cosart P – ETA: Late 2012
3. Jonathan Villar SS – ETA: 2013
4. George Springer OF – ETA: Late 2013
5. Paul Clemens P – ETA: Mid 2012
6. Brett Oberholtzer P – ETA: Mid 2012
7. Ariel Ovando RF – ETA: Mid 2014
8. Mike Foltynewicz P – ETA: 2014
9. Domingo Santana OF – ETA: Mid-late 2014, maybe 2015
10. Delino DeShields Jr. 2B – ETA: 2014
Santana falls to 9 because he hasn’t really produced. You can say the same for Ovando, but Ovando seems like a safer bet. Santana, from what I’ve read, is a very high ceiling, fairly low floor player. Ovando is similar, but his floor isn’t quite as low.
Oberholtzer may only have a #4 or #3 ceiling, but he’s consistently produced, and he’s made 2 good starts at CC so far.
Clemens is the same as Oberholtzer, only his ceiling is higher. He’s pitched well so far at CC.
I’m hesitant to put Villar at 3, but he’s starting to put it together, and he’s still got a high ceiling. I think he’s going to do very well at CC next year.
I’d say 2014 is the year that most of these prospects should be up.
We still have guys outside of the top 10 who can be good players, most notably Adrian Houser, Telvin Nash, Austin Wates, Ross Seaton, and Kody Hinze.
By the way, this list is SIGNIFICANTLY better than the list we had to start this year.
I don’t think I’ve liked Ed Wade this much. Braves trade got us a decent haul at best, but we got a great haul for Pence.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
Yep
And if Lyles, Altuve and JD were on this list, it would look even better.
don't forget
we still have guys like nash, bushue, seaton who have the potential to at least be ml regulars. systems getting deeper!
by dumpsterjedi on Aug 15, 2011 1:05 PM CDT up reply actions
So after selecting Santana, Ed Wade has brought us other guys like Singleton/Cosart/Ovando/Villar/Paredes/JD/Altuve/Lyles/Nash/Folty/DDJ into our system. And we all know about his history back in Philly for developing several all-star caliber players like Howard/Utley/Victorino/Hamels. We also know that there’s a good chance that after Crane takes over, Wade is gonna get the boot.
Do you think the guy can finally catch a break and be considered a respectable GM? Chances are that a couple of the guys he’s brought in are going to develop into very good to All-Star players, several high power (Nash/Ovando/Singleton/Santana comps to Howard/Utley), high speed (Paredes/Villar/DDJ comps to Victorino/Utley) prospects and as you can see with the Philly’s, having just 4 reach their ceiling over the course of several years can carry a team most of the way to a championship.
problem is..
for all the brilliant moves he makes, he also can make boneheaded decisions that also hurt the team (i.e. ridiculous trade-clause for wandy, resigning brett myers instead of trading him, etc.)
i dont’ think he’s an awful gm, but i would much rather have someone else (like friedman – i can hope, right?).
by dumpsterjedi on Aug 15, 2011 1:10 PM CDT up reply actions
Footer says we had a choice of two players
will we find out who the other option was?
by Stephenoa McCrory on Aug 15, 2011 1:07 PM CDT reply actions
Probably not
Unless it somehow leaks from one of the front offices, but I doubt it will.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
At this point,
it doesn’t matter.
Getting a very high ceiling prospect like Santana is a steal, even if he’s got a low floor.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions
agreed.
as a 4th prospect, santana is a really really nice get. that’s three top 10 prospects plus a potential setup man/closer, for an above-average major league right fielder. unless i’m forgetting one, this is probably the best trade ed wade as made as gm (pudge/roy-o/berkman/lidge/bourn trades don’t even come close)
by dumpsterjedi on Aug 15, 2011 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions
you don't think...
They chose him to offset because they’re worried Springer won’t sign do you?
I know this is probably not the case but all the above talk about how much better the farm would be with both Santana & Springer got me worried about counting chickens …
by man07 on Aug 15, 2011 1:34 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Yeah
Not sure I do either. Just a panic thought. Still both big potential outfield bats.
Like I said panic thought. That’s a pretty big reach to connect the two situations.
by man07 on Aug 15, 2011 1:38 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it's almost certain we sign Springer
It’s never 100% in these situations, but I think it will happen. There are a LOT of first rounders still yet to sign today.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
I know
Just needed somebody to reassure me. I don’t know why I’m so anxious, it’s not like it’s my first draft.
For whatever reason I’m more anxious this year. Maybe it’s that with the state of the organization I feel like the stakes are even higher.
by man07 on Aug 15, 2011 1:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Let’s say that the top college hitters decide to go back because they think they’ll go higher in the next draft; If you could get Rendon and the number 12 pick next year over Springer and the 1st pick what would you choose?
/Really biased Rendon fanboy.
Oh god I don't know
That’s a tough one. I like Springer a LOT but I do like Rendon better. I’m not sure how the top player (barring Rendon) next year will fare in comparison.
I still think both Rendon and Springer will sign though.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Ruh roh
MLB owners delay this week’s scheduled vote on Jim Crane’s $680-million purchase of Astros as questions linger. Story coming on Chron.com.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Uncle Drayton is going to be pissed..
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by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 1:57 PM CDT up reply actions
I have a feeling Crane is responsible for the sub-par returns in the Bourn deal
We could have gotten better returns, but that article said Crane’s desires to start fresh & reduce payroll were responsible for the Pence & Bourn deals. Maybe Ed Wade didn’t want to trade with Atlanta, but was forced to by Crane & thus didn’t get the return he wanted.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
in that case the Phillies look like idiots.
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by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I'll give you 4 pennies for 2 quarters kinda thing
The Phillies must have really wanted Hunter Pence because of the return we got.
I think Atlanta wasn’t willing to give up their top pitching prospects for Bourn, and could have easily gotten another player to play CF if they didn’t have to give up a lot of prospects. But with Crane wanting to trim payroll I could easily see Ed Wade settling for lesser prospects to trade Bourn, and make Crane happy (A move to try to keep his job?).
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
I hope this new development doesn’t have a negative impact on the team’s ability to sign Springer and others.
by Stupendous Man on Aug 15, 2011 2:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
So,
who do we draft with the #1 pick?
Trey Williams has been the popular choice, but I’d prefer we take a pitcher. Cosart and maybe Folty are the only legit #1 or #2 pitchers we got right now.
Would be nice to add another great arm.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
You may get your wish
Since Stanford RHP Mark Appel has been reported by many as a frontrunner for the first overall pick. I’m not sold on him, however, and would rather have one of the Williams kids (Nick or Trey).
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Think he had a 3.02 or 3.03 ERA last year.
Not exactly a #1 pick’s numbers.
However, we have so few quality arms in our farmsystem, so adding him would be a great get, even if Nick and Trey Williams might be better players.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions
How is next year's draft?
Someone else commented that the 2012 draft was weak, so I’m wondering if there’s a surefire #1 pick (Harper, Strasburg) or a bunch of guys who are all about the same level?
by dumpsterjedi on Aug 15, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
2012 draft is very weak compared to the past three.
But, Nick Williams, Trey Williams, and Mark Appel are all worthy of the #1 pick. They probably would not have been taken #1 or #2 in the past few drafts, but they are very talented nonetheless.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Appel - Not good enough for #1
Hopefully someone like a Trevor Bauer comes out of left field and gives us no choice but to draft them #1.
Otherwise, go with the best position player/
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Cole had an even worse ERA
Cole had ERA’s over 3.30 his last two years. Appel sounds like he has a lot of upside according to the scouting reports I have seen.
I want one of the Williams's too.
Preferably Nick – b/c he has otherworldy power. I see him like next year’s Bubba Starling except with not so many questions on his bat. I like Trey too, especially since he’s plus defense on 3B and has power. It’s really a toss up./
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 2:18 PM CDT reply actions
I wouldn't mind either of them.
But at the same time, we need more quality arms in our system.
At the end of the day though, we’re adding an elite talent. All I really care about.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions
i would like nick
the home derby video is sick
by strokin_stros on Aug 15, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Would D-Backs be a fit for Wandy again?
Jason Marquis pitched with a broken leg until he couldn’t anymore. Now the starting pitcher who was acquired to fill a spot in their rotation will be out for four to six weeks, as Nick Piecoro writes.
Apparently they may call up Trevor Bauer… Wow.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Calling up Bauer?
WOW. Talk about rushing a prospect. Bauer has pitched very, very well so far but he’s not MLB ready.
Would be interesting to see how he did in The Show though.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions
And just saying
Last year was the year to go on a 52 – 110 pace.
I would kill to have Trevor Bauer on the Astros.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Hes probably ready.
He has an era of 0.00/ He’ll probably be similar to Lincecum when he was called up. Pirates should have taken him #1.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 2:28 PM CDT reply actions
Lineup today.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Paredes not playing is ridiculous.
Don’t understand why Mills loves players like J-Mike, Sanchez, and Downs.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:30 PM CDT up reply actions
Downs should be given a shot
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by Timothy De Block on Aug 15, 2011 2:34 PM CDT up reply actions
At the loss of not playing Paredes?
No thanks.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Downs is one of the players who have to find something about this year. I would like to see Downs get some time at 3d base. And for a guy as raw as Paredes, I think there can be some benefit in sitting and watching every once in a while.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t mind Paredes not playing everyday, since I want to see what Downs can do as well. But Sanchez and Michaels should NEVER be starting. Ever.
by Snake Diggity on Aug 15, 2011 2:35 PM CDT up reply actions
Paredes is a speedy guy.
Put him in RF just for today.
I know this is a radical idea, but to quote somebody famous, “Why the hell not?”.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
13th rounder Matt Dean signs w/ Blue Jays for 750K
I wish we couldve got him. He was a UT commit and considered a supp pick talent and also close to unsignable. Looks like Blue Jays continue to play the draft game right.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 2:42 PM CDT reply actions
Tyler Beede most likely not signing with Jays - he was their 1st rounder.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Must be nice being in the Phillies position...
Being able to trade away prospects for a World Series run.
With their age and lack of prospects
I can’t see the Phillies competing beyond 3 years
by Its Gonna Happen on Aug 15, 2011 3:44 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree
I think they will make a run or two in the next few years and then settle into the middle of the pack after some of there guys get older and retire.
One title under their belt, with likely another (maybe 2) on the way in the next 3 years...
Definitely worth it.
No doubt
If I were in there shoes id be full steam ahead. I just don’t think their farm system is so good they will hold it up for the long run.
They still have plenty of prospects
Biddle, May, Colvin, Bonilla, if you consider Brown, others.
They’re about where we are now, maybe a bit better still.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 3:49 PM CDT reply actions
They have more toolsy depth still
I think with the signing of Springer our cream of the crop might just thwart theirs though.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
so who we getting next year
for Myers? Wandy?
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Aug 15, 2011 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions
Myers and Wandy lack surplus value
At best we’ll get a couple straight grade C guys like we got for Kepp. Probably more of a salary dump situation with them. We’ve pretty much fortified the farm through trades as much as we’re going to now… just time to develop the kids and continue adding through the draft, IFA, etc.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Which is why I'd hold onto at least one of them
If you have a bunch of young pitchers that have not proven anything, you’re going to get demolished and your bullpen’s going to get hurt. Having a couple of more or less sure things every time through the rotation wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world, even with a tight budget. Wandy would be worth every penny for next year in my opinion.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed. Hold on to Wandy.
Myers can go, but dammit hold on to Wandy!!!
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions
Anyone think we will claim anybody off waivers?
Im not talking a Jason Bay or a Soriano but maybe an inexpensive pitcher or something of that nature.
The Astros’ 40 man roster is filled up right now. Makes me think it’s unlikely. You never know, though, if a young guy out of options is waived by a team and Wade has good scouting reports on him.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
It wouldn't be too tough to drop a guy off the 40 man
Arcenio Leon, Blake King, Jorge De Leon, and Juan Abreu could all be moved off if a better option presented itself.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions
From what Phillies fans are saying, I like Santana.
They have said Santana’s floor is very low, and that it’s more likely he doesn’t pan out, but they also said if he does pan out, he’ll be a superstar player.
Singleton and Cosart seem like fairly safe bets to pan out, so I don’t mind having a very high risk player in Santana.
If he puts it together, it seems like his ceiling would be higher than Ovando’s, which is scary.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
I don't necessarily buy the higher upside than Ovando
I think they’re both huge upside guys, but Ovando strikes me as a slightly better athlete. Ok, the nitpicking isn’t necessary, but it’s a good sign to fill the minors with a ton of high upside guys. If just a few of them work out, we’ll look very good for the future.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:06 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd like to take a run at Ryan Vogelsong next year
Especially if we hold onto Wandy. I think he could really solidify our rotation.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:01 PM CDT reply actions
He's a guy I'd avoid
Guy’s going to be way overpaid for his performance this year (mostly his ERA). His 2.47 ERA is sexy, but his 3.53 FIP and 3.76 xFIP tell the story that he’s a lot more average than you’d think.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:04 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I was thinkin hed be a good #3
Norris
Wandy
Vogelsong
Lyles
Sosa – or whoever
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions
He might be
But you have to realize that this could be a one year wonder and he’s going to get a ton of money this summer. If he flops, you’re stuck with a huge contract.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I wonder if he does get a huge contract though?
Teams are shying away from that. For those type of pitchers I should say… 3 years 22 mill – sounds good.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:14 PM CDT up reply actions
Question: Would you trade Brett Wallace for Logan Morrison?
Morrison was supposed to be the Marlins’ top 1st base prospect. Gabby Sanchez was supposed to be a placeholder until Morrison made to the big leagues. This is Morrison rookie year and Gabby is playing well, so they put Morrison in LF, where he is not a very good fielder. The Marlins recently sent Morrison back to AAA, even though he has a 115 RC+ and is the third best hitter on the team. This article by Dave Cameron makes fun of the Marlins move (the Marlins’ GM told Morrison that his .240 batting average is too low, which incensed Morrison, since he knows something about OPS, SLG%, etc.). As pointed out in the article, the Marlins had other issues with Morrison’s outspoken ways. It would be an interesting challenge trade, IMO. The taciturn good guy Wallace for the outspoken and younger Morrison.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 4:05 PM CDT reply actions 2 recs
I wouldn't
I have faith in Wallace to rebound, and even if he is a slightly lesser talent than Morrison, I’d rather have the less disruptive personality.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
Morrison tweets too much, so what.
Sometimes you can’t always have quiet guys on your team.
Morrison’s talent is worth the “risk.”
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 4:09 PM CDT up reply actions
Definitely. Consider he'd be 1st in Hr's, 2nd in RbI's right away.
He’s still young and can play 1st as well as Wallace.
Wallace could be a high avg hitter but will probably never hit more than 15 hr’s. And I’m starting to doubt his avg potential. Morrison’s shown he’s a middle of the order type bat and personally, I like him. Fight the power cause Jeff Loria is a true piece of shit owner.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:12 PM CDT up reply actions
Trade Wallace for Morrison?
Absolutely. I’d do that in a heartbeat.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Aug 15, 2011 4:08 PM CDT up reply actions
I'd do it.
But would the Marlins really want Brett Wallace? They’d be giving up Logan Morrison & unless they can’t live with his attitude, I don’t think they would trade him to us.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
maybe not, but the Marlins seem to have soured on Morrison’s personality. There is also the issue of his relationship with Hanley Ramirez. Both Wes Helms and Logan Morrison were vocal in calling on Hanley to be more of a team player (this was when he was dogging it in the field and getting upset at the manager when he was reprimanded). Helms was cut and Morrison was sent down, which some Marlins’ followers view as intended to make Ramirez happy.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 4:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
oh, and the manager who reprimanded Hanley Ramirez has been fired, and just about all of the players who supported the manager’s decision are gone.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If something like this happened, it would need to be an offseason move, I’m guessing? Neither player would clear waivers.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
We could claim him (hello to you, last place), they pull him back, and work out a trade to us.
I think that is possible.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Wallace would have to make it to them
As much as his value has fallen, any team would still likely claim him.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Can't a trade be worked out between the claiming team?
LOMO would be put through waivers. Wallace would not.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
No
Both players involved would have to go through the waiver process if I’m not mistaken. Otherwise, the Yankees could just put Jesus Montero or Manny Banuelos on waivers and trade them to us for whatever we’d have to offer (not that we have anything that would get us those players). For instance, the Phillies could’ve just put Santana, Zeid, Cosart, and Singleton on waivers and after we claimed all of them, traded him for Pence.
by Patrick Harrel on Aug 15, 2011 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions
Yeah I just learned that. My bad earlier.
This explains waiver trades. http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/08/waiver_trade_ru.html
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Oh I see
Because Wallace is already on the 40-man roster, he’d have to go through waivers too.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2006/08/waiver_trade_ru.html
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Hafta wait til the offseason.
But a Wallace for LoMo trade wouldnt be totally out of reason, especially since hes pissed at them and they’re pissed at him.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions
The Marlins SBN Blog seems to blame something other than Hanley
http://www.fishstripes.com/2011/8/15/2363969/more-on-the-logan-morrison-and-wes-helms-situation
We could get Morrison in the winter meetings. Marlins want to win now in their new stadium
by dumpsterjedi on Aug 15, 2011 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions
If that's the case
Do the Astros really want to take on his attitude problems?
After all, the Astros did fire Arnsberg. Not sure they want another hot head in the house.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
The Marlins always seem to be having these issues though
It makes me wonder if it’s something to do with their organization.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Wait, I was out of town when Arnsberg was fired, and I still don't know the details of his firing.
What happened?
The Scola Scoop, How To Train Your Dragic, The Chuck Wagon, Pat-Pat, Captain hUnter Pence, Keppy, Junior Towles, Q, and Matt "Not Too" Schaubby!
by ScolaDaBalla on Aug 15, 2011 5:42 PM CDT up reply actions
rather than start another can of worms set of comments...
I’ll just refer you to Timmy’s facepalm article (and comments) after it happened.
by clack on Aug 15, 2011 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
haha, thanks.
The Scola Scoop, How To Train Your Dragic, The Chuck Wagon, Pat-Pat, Captain hUnter Pence, Keppy, Junior Towles, Q, and Matt "Not Too" Schaubby!
by ScolaDaBalla on Aug 16, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions
Yes, yes, yes. Wallace will probably hit for higher average. But Morrison has more pop, can play a decent of, and has more of a big league track record.
Baseball America added Santana to their trade analysis
The 6-foot-5 Santana possesses many of the benchmarks of an impact hitter. His bat is quick; his swing is clean and natural; and he has raw power to all fields. Santana doesn’t recognize breaking pitches well at this stage, but he’s got youth on his side. He’s a fringe-average runner who doesn’t record fast times to first base, but that doesn’t seem to affect his defensive ability. Santana reads the ball well off the bat and shows strong range in right field, where his arm plays as plus. Houston may have found a permanent replacement for Pence if Santana’s tools develop as some scouts project. A best-case scenario: 60 grades for hitting, power, defense and arm.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Signings starting to roll in
Lets see Armstrong, Stubble and Flamion with these… hopefully all 3.
by YohannDookeyblue on Aug 15, 2011 6:28 PM CDT reply actions
I really like this trade. We added a possible front end starter which we didn’t have anywhere in our system, a true power 1st base prospect which now gives us 3 guys with a chance of doing something in the majors at first (Wallace, Hinze, Singleton), and potential Pence-like outfielder to go with Ovando and Springer. The only way it could get better for me would be if we had landed a true SS or 3rd baseman instead if a reliever.
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