Charles Not in Charge as Norris, Astros Avoid Sweep and Defeat Pirates 8-2
by Nick Thomeer on Jul 6, 2011 8:58 PM CDT
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Entering today's game, the Pirates' Charlie Morton (7-4 3.63 E.R.A) was a leading candidate for comeback player of the year, while the Astros' Bud Norris seems to have had no luck this season accumulating a 3.46 E.R.A. but a 4-6 record. The Astros would need a role reversal to avoid a sweep. In the midst of a 5 game losing streak, Astros' manager Brad Mills had a lengthy pregame meeting with the team before tonight's game. Could this meeting fix the runners left on base problem and bullpen meltdowns?
The answer would seem to be no early on. Hunter Pence broke Morton's no hitter in the 1st with a single which extended his hitting streak to 11. Pence stole second, and Carlos Lee walked, but Jeff Keppinger grounded out to end the inning. The Pirates responded to this threat in the 1st with a 1 out R.B.I. single by Andrew McCutchen that gave the Pirates a 1-0 lead. The scoring would halt until the 6th as both teams left plenty of runners on base.
The Astros, however, fixed the runners left on base problem in the 6th. Michael Bourn reached on a throwing error by Chase d'Arnaud. Angel Sanchez's double tied the game at 1-1. Pence's single gave the Astros a 2-1 lead. Pence scored on Lee's 4th triple of the year which was aided by All Star snub McCutchen's misplay on the ball. Keppinger's double scored Lee to make it 4-1. Then Brett Wallace's groundout moved Keppinger to 3rd. Clint Barmes's single extended the lead to 4 and took Charlie Morton out of the game. The inning ended with Bourn striking out, but Mill's pregame meeting seemed to have some effect. In total it was a 6 hit inning, which scored 5 runs. The Pirates responded again with a Andrew McCutchen R.B.I. to cut the Astros' lead to 3.
The bullpen would finally get its chance to show what it learned from today's meeting. Wilton Lopez replaced Bud Norris in the 8th. Norris pitched 7 innings allowing two runs and striking out 3. Lopez pitched a perfect inning retiring the side. Jason Michael's pinch hit for Lopez and hit a leadoff double. Bourn followed with a double to extend the lead to 5. Then, Pence singled with 1 out to score Bourn. Pence would advance to 3rd base after Lee's single. Keppinger's sac fly scored Pence to make the score 8-2. David Carpenter came in to close out the game. He responded by retiring all three batters he faced. So, the bullpen also responded to the pregame meeting and helped the Astros win their first game of July. Maybe this meeting will provide the 2nd half magic the Astros are known for. With the win, the Astros ended a 5 game losing streak and will take their talents to South Beach to face the Marlins in a 4 game series.
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by Timothy De Block on Jul 6, 2011 9:15 PM CDT up reply actions
Towles optioned, Quintero coming up from OKC tomorrow
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 6, 2011 9:17 PM CDT reply actions
im very exited to have a catcher that hits above .220.
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
Dont get too excited...
Its Q, not Castro. (I know that Castro didn’t do well but he at least projects to do well.)
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:24 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
yah i know i was being sarcastic cause we have corporan and towles and they both were under .190, and Q is an average .220 hitter,
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
Well CRAP
We finally avoid the sweep and I’m stuck in a dead zone at work with no reception! FML! Well from the look at things, Carlos now leads all water buffalo in triples for the year. Bud with 101 pitches in 7IP I think he’s learned how to pitch! I’m happy with the win and I’m starting to come around a little bit more with Nick Williams (as long as he isn’t “advised” by Scott Douchebag Boras!)
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:22 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Barring an injury to the current catching corp, I think we’ve seen the last of our former top prospect. A poster in the game thread said they Astros gave Towles and ultimatum to either turn it on or he would be sent down. Sounds like they lost patience with him and went with Corporan. With Castro coming back for next year and Q being his likely back up, I cant see Towles being around for anything more than minor league depth. But Wallace and Corporan could be at AAA next year so Towles could be gone. Its a shame to see after he shot through the system like he did
yah, he must feel terrible about himself, in all seriousness
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
agreed
He has to be crushed that things have gone this way for him again. I really do feel bad for him. when Castro went down I hoped that Towles would step up and put it all together but it didnt happen for him after a promising first few weeks.
a la Felipe Paulino. I hope someone takes a chance on him and he pulls it together for them. I just can’t see him being in the Houston system after this season.
Hitting Coach?
No no no, Bagwell left silly…
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I wish Baggy would work with the guys when we are at home.
I mean we had Sean Berry at one time that was a what carreer .220 hitter I mean come on. I know that good hitters are not always good teachers but get someone that has shown results either as a hitter or as a hitting coach.
Ol Stubby could teach him!
He could teach anybody
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
he never hits line drives it seems
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
Well Q's defense is better the towles, and hitting might as well be a better hitter
When you ask Carlos Lee what his favorite place to play is, and he anwsers with the words, anywhere with a Buffet. You know theirs a real problem.
There is no reason to put Towles down to AAA. Q adds no value to the club he will likely be gone next year also so why not let Towles just finish this year out and maybe he can figure it out.
Q makes not only the pitchers better
But the entire defense as well. Runners have been stealing on the Astros like we’re at an urban Walmart during a riot
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Are we rebuilding????????????????????????????????????????
If we are then there is no point in bringing Q back and sending JR down. Q will win us what 2 games this year with his defense which is highly unlikely.
Q can help the pitchers. We’re trying to develop pitchers too.
by clack on Jul 6, 2011 9:54 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
How is Q going to help the pitchers??? With pitch framing We already have seen the regression in the pitching staff since the Arnsberg firing what else? Is Q going to chatter at the batter and make them miss?
Myers only had 3 swings and misses his last start Q is not going to help any of the pitchers execute there pitches better. You also have Wandy who has been one of your best pitchers and Towles is his catcher go figure???
What regression are you talking about?
While Arnsberg was an excellent pitching coach (IMO), to say that there has been a regression is not the truth.
Statistically, three of the four starters have performed better. I do not include Lyles because he only pitched one game before Arnsberg was fired. Only Happ would fit into regressed mode. While it may seem that there has been a regression because we are losing so many games, our starters have been pretty good. Norris and Wandy have sub 3 era’s, and even Myers had had a few good outings, even if he is still inconsistent.
Pitch f/x studies show that Q gets more called strikes through framing.
by clack on Jul 7, 2011 7:17 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree Q can control opposing baserunners, and he imo calls a better game than towles to
When you ask Carlos Lee what his favorite place to play is, and he anwsers with the words, anywhere with a Buffet. You know theirs a real problem.
by orangeblood kid on Jul 6, 2011 9:58 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Q has been getting a majority of the playing time and this pitching staff is still bad, so I don’t think his defense or framing is really providing a significant amount of improvement.
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by Timothy De Block on Jul 6, 2011 10:01 PM CDT up reply actions
Agreed
If we can trade Q then do it but he will not be an Astro next year because he will be to expensive for what he is. I dont know when the Astros are actually going to do the youth movement. I mean Bogey has been up what two weeks now and has 5 AB’s and no starts WTF????
I don't know why they don't use bogey, he really hasn't had a chance to really show them anything
When you ask Carlos Lee what his favorite place to play is, and he anwsers with the words, anywhere with a Buffet. You know theirs a real problem.
by orangeblood kid on Jul 6, 2011 10:25 PM CDT up reply actions
The studies indicate that Q is the best at framing available to the Astros and has saved runs for the Astros’ pitchers. Think how bad the pitching staff would be if he hadn’t been available.
by clack on Jul 7, 2011 7:15 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Myers and Happ are regressing as we expected. Norris has taken a step forward in his developement which wasn’t entirely unexpected, and Wandy was caught by Towles and is right in line with his career numbers.
Q may of saved runs but the effect of his game calling ability is minimal. It seems that the development and success of the pitcher is largely going to rely on the pitcher.
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by Timothy De Block on Jul 7, 2011 8:44 AM CDT up reply actions
Getting the extra strike calls from framing can get the pitcher out of an inning rather than letting it string on. I think it is frustrating for young pitchers if they try to throw close pitches but can’t get the strike call. They can become frustrated and end up throwing it over the heart of the plate, or alternatively walk too many batters. Look at the relative number of walks taken by the Red Sox and Astros in the recent series. (Red Sox-22 walks; Astros-4 walks.) I know that this is mostly due to the difference in quality of hitters. But I think the difference in catcher pitch framing played some role too. Varitek is at the top of the pitch framing studies, if I recall correctly, and Towles is near the bottom, plus Corporan does not appear to be great at pitch framing either. We complained a lot that umpires did not treat the strike zone uniformly in the series, but would a different catcher have changed those complaints? Maybe or maybe not. In any event, I think it is easier to develop a pitcher like Lyles or Norris if the pitcher believes that he can get a strike call with a borderline pitch.
by clack on Jul 7, 2011 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Lyles issue isn’t getting that borderline call, it’s his command. Q could frame the pitch very well, but still not get the call because of Lyles’ status as a rookie.
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by Timothy De Block on Jul 7, 2011 9:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Calling BS on this sir
I really doubt that pitch framing makes that big of a difference from catcher to catcher and pitcher to pitcher. I think that depending on the pitcher they get the benefit of the doubt. Someone like Lester, Becket, CC guys like that are going to get more borderline calls just because who they are. Rookies like Lyles will not get those favorable calls and thats a fact. It is like comparing Bill Hall at the plate to Pujols. 9 times out of 10 Pujols will get the benefit of the doubt.
Sorry, I will go with the statistical analysis using pitch f/x over random opinions. The studies had a high degree of statistical confidence.
by clack on Jul 7, 2011 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
You go to far into the statistics that your point of view is lost. If Towles could turn his bat around this would be a moot point. Statistically Q has not been much better defensively that Jr this year also you look at the guys JR catches. Wandy with his high leg kick and big curveball is very easy to steal on. Most stolen bases are on the pitchers not the catchers.
By the way, the recent studies on pitch framing controlled for the pitcher’s and umpire effect, which means that the “reputation” issues associated with the pitcher were not a factor in the catcher framing results.
by clack on Jul 7, 2011 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Quintero's last year as an Astro
needs to be this year.
Either go with a platoon of Castro and Wallace or get a better option than paying 1M for the always overrated Quintero.
by Neil Leininger on Jul 6, 2011 10:58 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree
A change of scenery will probably let him go beastmode all over baseball like he does for us every spring. I really think he’s gonna figure it out (Yes, :’( like Paulino) and I was hoping he would be an Astro when he does
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 6, 2011 9:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Wates and Mier are the only really interesting players there
At least Wates is having a good game tonight.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Wates
Is Awesome.
If the Astros could show any sign of being ahead, rather than being behind the competition, maybe, just maybe the Astros will be good in the future.... Maybe
Joanthan Meyer is now hitting cleanup for them. It’s definitely pretty baren after the they started off with so much talent.
Bad news for Jethawks fans, good news for Astros fans
Means guys have been excelling and moving themselves up the ladder.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
wikoff?? maybe, to lazy to check
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
You guys were talking about this earlier in this thread.
Fangraphs article about catchers and pitchers.
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