The Astros Lose 0-4 but May Have Also Won
I know their was a game on, but between the Hunter Pence news and the podcast we were recording I hardly noticed.
News broke on twitter in the 4th inning that Pence had been traded thought It wasn't until the bottom of the 5th it became official as Jason Michaels came in to replace Pence in right field. Shots of Pence hugging his teammates while fighting back tears played on the screen will be my last image of Pence in an Astros uniform. I really wish it hadn't come to this but this marks just another necessary step on the way back to prominence for the Astros. Last year it was older players such as Lance Berkman and Roy Oswalt who we had to say good bye to. This year it's younger players such as Pence and possibly Michael Bourn who we will have to begrudgingly let go.
Initially I'm not happy with the return of Jonathan Singelton, Jarred Cosart, Josh Zeid and still another player to be named later. Maybe I bought too much into the hype machine and the possibility that the Astros could of gotten Domonic Brown, but Ed Wade had all the leverage and for a guy trying to save his job this doesn't sound like a job saving trade. Still it's a fair move for a player like Hunter Pence.
Maybe he's trying to save his job by showcasing another player that he's drafted in J.D. Martinez who has been called up. If you're looking for a positives from this move it's that Ed Wade will have three players make their Major League debut in the last two years from his draft classes. It's been a while since the Astros have had high profile prospects called up in back to back years let alone two being called up in the same year.
I certainly think there are positives to take away from this deal I just can't help feeling like it could of been better.
As for the game at hand, it wasn't much of one for the Astros.
Jordan Lyles again pitched well enough to win going 6 innings and allowing 2 earned runs on 6 hits while striking out 3. Enerio Del Rosario then followed giving up another 2 earned runs in .2 innings of work. For the Brewers Randy Wolf went 7 innings allowing 0 runs while striking out 5 and walking 3. The Brewers bullpen then followed with 2 perfect innings from Takashi Saito and Kameron Loe.
Offensively 4 Astros had hits, but none collected more than one. Jose Altuve started a new streak. Jason Bourgeois, Angel Sanchez and Humberto Quintero all chimed in with hits of their own. Pence was 0-1 with a walk for his final game with the Astros.
Which is fitting because as much as he hustled for the Astros he only walked out of the Astros clubhouse this evening.
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Jason Michaels had his pant sleeves rolled up
I wonder if he did that in honor of Hunter Pence.
He will be greatly missed.
Meanwhile, I’m looking forward to J.D. Martinez & what he has to offer.
Self-acclaimed José Altuve s̶t̶a̶l̶k̶e̶r̶ fan.
by BustaPozee on Jul 29, 2011 10:58 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Never heard of 'em...
:P
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:07 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Why waste ABs in AAA
on guys that have mashed for the 1st day in the organization?
Hinze should be next, if he continues to produce through August. They can always go back to AAA.
by Neil Leininger on Jul 30, 2011 1:24 AM CDT up reply actions
Still wearing my Pence Jersey.
This is truly sad.
" Answers --Become Resources."
Without Questions, There are limited Resources...
by KWashburn on Jul 29, 2011 11:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
totally watched mitch williams emabarase himself trying to break a bat 2 times over his thigh
If i were Arnold Rothstein id pay Ryan Braun all the money he
wants to stop going on homer streaks against the poor Astros....
am i the only one?
by ccislanders on Jul 29, 2011 11:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I like how the Brewers coach patted Pence on his way out
by Silentjay on Jul 29, 2011 11:47 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
those pesky of's
thanks.
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on Jul 29, 2011 11:57 PM CDT up reply actions
Surprise, Surprise: Heyman says the Astros demands for Bourn are widly high.
Doesn’t he have any other tune?
He can say anything and get away with it
Unless a trade actually goes down you will never actually know what is offered.
To tip your hand like that damages your bargaining power in future deals which is why I think the “reports” of what the Braves were offering were bogus. Say they went after Quentin after disclosing what they offered for Pence… the White Sox would pretty much know what was available.
by Crzycjunx76 on Jul 30, 2011 12:28 AM CDT up reply actions
SO basically what I am saying
is since no one will ever call him out on it he can make up sources all day long and say pretty much what he wants and there is little chance anyone will really call him out on it. Every once in a while a GM or a player will say I have no idea where that came from and the person who made the report will spin it as bad info or the situation changing and their report was real… but the inner workings will remain secret so these “reporters” can get away with fraudulent claims as long as they keep them vague enough to avoid looking like complete idiots.
I am sure there are some who have quality sources, probably the ones that are not constantly updating with changes in the situation like they have rumor diarrhea. For the most part I think the rest just take what they say and embellish it to make it a better story and to seem better informed.
by Crzycjunx76 on Jul 30, 2011 12:34 AM CDT up reply actions
I think Heyman has “sources.” But the sources can use him to send whatever message they want.
by clack on Jul 30, 2011 7:09 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Just got the news after back to back losses at softball tonight
Let’s just say that this has been an emotional night.
This move is for the best, let me get that out there to start. I’m really gonna miss Hunter. He was a player that was humble, fan friendly, and was an all out give it everything you got on every play player. I think Matt Athomas said it best when he said “Hunter Pence was a guy that I never questioned how much he wanted to win a baseball game.” That quote basically summed up Pence, and I’ll miss that most off all.
Now for the future, 2013-2014 we will be GOOD! We (Ed Wade/owner) took a step back and took a look at the team and the franchise and took the big leap. They did the hardest thing in cutting their best player and greatest personality out of their team and traded him for the future. They traded for the greater good and that took a lot of guts. We now have a good group of guys in AA that should be ready to come up around the same time and another group in the high and low A’s that should (hopefully) come up after them.
We made our franchise better today but we need to go all out and trade for the prospects that will help us dominate in 2-3 years. We have to bite the bullet now and admit that we already don’t have a chance this year or next to make the postseason. We need to step back as a fanbase and look at where the franchise will be after next year. If we aquire some more prospects that are 2-5 years away from the ML and project to be good when they get there, we need to go all out and trade Wandy and Bourn as well.
Keep Myers! He will continue to up his trade value over the remainder of the year and we can trade him for more value during the Winter Meetings. Trading him now would be selling low and wouldn’t be a smart move.
JD Martinez, its time to see just how good he is. He has hit the way the Astros have asked him to, but if they actually ask him to play RF I think it would be a mistake. They need to move Carlos out of left (whether he sits, goes to first while Wallace goes to AAA, or platoons with Wallace at 1st I don’t really care), play Bourgeois in RF and JD in LF. If JD struggles in RF it may have a negative affect on his hitting ability.
I like Wallace and think he has a boatload of potential if he can figure it out offensively, but whether he does that in the ML or at AAA, at this point I don’t care. With Jimmy Van O being so consistant in the recaps, its time to move him up and let Koby or (can’t think of his name, came from AAA Las Vegas 1B), or both go.
Last but not least, Matt Downs. We have to find a way to see what we have in Matt Downs. I don’t like the idea of him and Altuve battling it out for the starting 2B job in ST. Altuve has shown so far he can handle and/or succeed at the ML level, Clint Barmes has been a great SS for us (especially lately), Johnson has finally shown that he deserves to have a spot in the lineup and I don’t think now is the time to pull him, and between Carlos and Brett 1B is taken care of. I think the best way is to sit someone different everyday but will playing a different defensive position everyday affect his hitting?
Id like to thank TCB for letting me vent, and I know y’all are wondering, yes my team is going to the playoffs next week. Not to worry, we’ll kick arse. I want my free softball champions shirt!
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 12:35 AM CDT via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Totally agree
its gonna hurt about Hunter but were gonna make it back. Hey maybe one day Hunter can join us again all united as a championship houston astros team
by 31blur114 on Jul 30, 2011 1:27 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Had that thought too
Since he loved it here, set down roots and called it home, maybe he’ll come back?
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:29 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Wouldnt it be awesome
i think it would be great for Hunter to come back and be able to say he won a championship with the Astros he is only 28 he may be a few years into his thirties when it happens but it would be awesome for it to happen
Have permanately erased Berkman as an Astro from my memory
He was flat out lazy his last three years here
by Nado2036 on Jul 30, 2011 2:59 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs
Id like to sign him to a one yearer
If/when he’s ready to retire, sign him to a team friendly one year deal as a bench player. Let him retire an Astro. That’d be ideal.
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 3:34 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Again we must travel on to nowhere, nowhere...
all the things that we tried just never mattered
they all shattered, so we packed up and we’ve gone
Turn the tables around
then good luck can be found
you’ve got to be Astros Astros stand tall
Turn the tables around
then good luck can be found
you’ve got to be Astros Astros stand tall
The sun in the morning warms the cold night, cold night
what makes you go on to change your mind
how far down that road you’ve gone a long way
from the first stay when you’ve picked up and gone
We will look back at this weekend for a pivotal day when we are in the post season in a few years. Yea its going to be another nasty year next year, hopefully not as bad. But in no time we will be up near the top again. Thing is like others have said. This was a long time coming. It was just our time to eat mud. Only the freak teams like the Cards do not have long periods in the mud. Hell even the Yankees stunk it up pretty bad in the 1980s. But with what we have done today, and Im optimistic as to what we will get if we do anymore trades, then we have just set the foundation for a good run.
I feel a little bad about the Phillies future
They’ve traded a good amount of their top minor league talent and I can’t imagine that they won’t be in the same boat as the Astros were 2-3 years ago. (Old, injured, and with a bare farm system.)
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:04 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No, no sypathy
Maybe I’m just reminded of the way I felt when the Astros were old, bad, and had no relief in sight.
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:17 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That what happens when you are in a build to win now situation. How do you think we got
into the situation that we are in now?
But we didn't get to win now (then)
So why do they???
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:18 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I just meant WS appearances is all.
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:38 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, Philly has helped their aces by trading for/signing excellent offensive players (unlike Houston).
E-5-1-50
exactly. Drayton spent a lot of money to build a good team, with the Pettitte and Clemens signings, but he didn’t go the extra mile in either 05 or 06 to put those teams over the top by trading for another hitter.
by clack on Jul 30, 2011 7:16 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Cosart and Singleton
Hunter Pence was my favorite player and he may still be and i hurt to see him walk off the field and say goodbye to his teammates. I also cannot wait to see Jonathon Singleton and Jarred Cosart and i hope in the future the rotation of Norris Lyles and Cosart strike fear into our opponents and i hope pitchers feel the fear when they see jonathon Singleton. I also want to see how Jose Altuve progresses in the Major leagues and i also cant wait to see JD Martinez get his chance with the astros. It wouldnt be fair to sign off without saying this Hunter Pence will always be in the hearts of astros fans. Hunter will always be an astro at heart
How old is Bud?
He’s still turning into the ACE I predict him to be but will he be around when Cosart comes up?
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:26 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Cosart makes his MLB debut next season
if things go as planned. So Bud would only be 27. The Astros will in all likelihood be the youngest team in the Majors next year.
by Neil Leininger on Jul 30, 2011 1:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Wow what a transition in such a short time, Oldest to Youngest
Sosa, Harrell, An Rod, Lyles, Kuechel, and Cedeno could all be in the rotation next year. Sosa has REALLY surprised me so far, but I’m not ready to insert foot into mouth just yet.
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:32 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
ACE... I dont see it
but he is developing nicely. If he can keep his walk rate down then he could be a 2/3 at his peak.
Norris that is...
As for Cosart, he may see the majors next season but my money is on him getting his chance in the Spring of 2013.
You're crazy!
If he keeps developing, learning how to pitch more effectively, he’ll has ACE potential. He has great stuff, closer stuff, and he is learning how to transition from strikeouts to contact, allowing him to pitch deeper into games. When he can choose whether to strike guys out or let them get themselves out he’ll be there. And he’s pretty darn close to that right now.
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:36 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Bud
whenever it is Buds turn to pitch i am more at ease than with any other pitcher on our pitching staff. Bud has developed really good and i think he is only gonna get better.
About but has about 5-6 seasons before he is there
so he should at least be around for our return to winning, though dealing him at some point in there might help us more than keeping him, specifically since he will hit free agency before then. For now that is not the case and it is good to see him improve.
Im in favor of signing Bud
He’s shown that he has developed a lot and as of now he’s a good #3 pitcher and if he continues to learn how to pitch he’ll be a #1. Signing him to a 5 year contract at the end of the year would probably be smart
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:47 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
No
We might be a winning team again in 2014… but the playoffs would still be a longshot.
We have a few players at most positions that might be ready but our minors are not stacked, even with some more trades I doubt we crack anyone’s top 10 minor league systems… we simply lack enough depth of talent and to ensure a constant stream to the majors you need that depth.
Dont rule out
If we have a good group of minor leaguers come up in 2013-2014, the FO making a big veteran splash in the FA market to sure up some holes and be the teams leader. Maybe Hunter Pence?
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 1:53 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Thats's what I've been saying to everyone on FBook lol
People on FBook are like crying about him and stuff, and I was like well you know Pence really loves Houston and Texas is his home team, so maybe when he’ll be a FA in the next 2 years Houston may try to sign him back. I sure hope so, that’ll be great and would make great sense
As long as we dont get our paroll up to a point like we did at the end of the last
decade where our market could not handle it so we started slashing youth development and acquisition to compensate.
The Astros’ market couldn’t handle the budget? I disagree. The Astros were making a profit, and they were in the top 5 in attendance in the NL. Mid market teams can easily handle budgets in the $100 million range.
by clack on Jul 30, 2011 7:23 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Ehh. I think we have a good shot at 2014 maybe even 2013
If we can get Springer to sign, plus we have Martinez, and Ovando, Singleton, Mier, Altuve, etc. we have a good shot
We have a player or two at several positions that can make it
The good minor league systems have multiple players at most positions who have a shot to make it… we are still an average after this trade and our drafts have not been good so how do we say that our average system is going to graduate enough talent to make our “worst in baseball” roster better than the teams out there with better systems than us?
We have a lot of work to do, we may have another trade cycle ahead of us in a few years, not a complete trade out but one where we trade our older more expensive guys to improve the talent pool enough to be sustainable… we also need to recommit to LA and start drafting better.
here is to hoping
here is to hoping that bud stays around Jordan stays around and Cosart turns into that pitcher the phillies were in love with. i heard he has one of the best fastballs in the minor leagues has an above average to plus potential curveball and his changeup which he is newer to him could be decent to ive heard he is a 2 starter with enough potential to be the ace of the staff
Chron.com
I love it, but I hate reading all those insane comments on the Pence trade.
Yeah but I want someone that thinks they are still young like me
I swear I am still 20 sometimes then the Celebrex wears off and my knees shoulders and elbow tell me otherwise. Ha ha ha
I understand I still try to play ball and if feels great until the next morning
My wife says I can play as long as I dont lay around and cry like a little girl about being sore. Her exact words she is so sweet
Well Astro fans
Between the pitchers we’ve picked up lately, the pitchers we will/might pick up trading off Bourn and Wandy, and the pitchers we drafted rescently (don’t forget about Folty and Velasquez), we should definately start to see wave after wave of young youthful starting pitchers along with relief guys that continue to highlight the recaps like Leon, De Leon, Chowning, Gervacio, ect.
Now the interesting thing is, what happens when Nash, Singleton, and Hinze all warrant a MLB 1B job? Three very high upside First Basemen…I like where this is heading. If Duffy can hurry his way through the system we’ll be sittin pretty (fingers crossed)
by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 30, 2011 3:47 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
good job by astros ownership allowing @HunterPence9 trade. he was drayton mclane’s favorite. next up: bourn. #tradedeadline
Ken_Rosenthal Ken Rosenthal
Two scouts say 3rd player in Pence trade, RHP Josh Zeid, ready for bigs now in ‘pen. "I’d kill to get Zeid," one says. #tradedeadline #MLB
JD’s like, "you want some f*ing pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, b*#&hes!"- RCCook
LSB: "Oh s#*t, JD. You crazy!"
Interesting deal
sup guys (new to this blog, usually a regular on brb), but I found it interesting that the Phillies fans feel they overpaid and we feel we didn’t get enough. I didn’t see any reason to trade Pence at all to be quite honest. I think Bourn, Wandy, Myers, and Lee should all have been packaged before Pence, which is the sole reason why I’m disappointed in this deal. Scratch that I’m also a bit disappointed Dominic Brown wasn’t included in the package.
With that said, it seems the Astros got a decent return for our best player. Pence is good, very good, but he did net us 2 top 50 prospects. I also agree that this now allows us to give JD Martinez a fair shake. lol, we should just call up everyone, Lyles, Altuves, and Martinez seem to be doing fairly well.
Im pretty sure that Dom Brown was never on the table contrary to was reported. Dom
Brown was 4th best prospect in all of baseball and under team control for years so he is cheap to them. We had to send cash to Philly in this deal bc it would have put them into a bind by going into the luxury tax. They have one of the highest payrolls and needed some financial help to pull this deal off so no way they give up a cheap and potential superstar for Hunter Pence.
Not sure what I think about this.
Buster_ESPN Buster Olney
NL source says the Braves would have included Mike Minor as part of a deal for Hunter Pence. #trades
Would've loved Minor who is a little more of a sure thing than Cosart
but Cosart has more upside. All would depend on the rest of the package obviously
Wade took the risk of possibly landing a really valuable guy in this trade, knowing the bust factor is definitely there.
He made the right decision. The Braves were unlikely to match a deal RAJ and the Phillies would offer.
by SteveBartman_MVP on Jul 30, 2011 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions
IDK what to say but Olney is a credible source.
I could see them adding Minor but no other arms. Minor is a #3 and we were looking for a potential #1 or #2 in the deal. If the other prospects weren’t anything special then it’s a good move by Wade but if it was their SS prospect included or something then IDK if I like the decision. A #3 that could help us for the next 5 years plus some other stuff isn’t a bad return in my mind.
Call them and see if they will do Minor and an A ball prospect for Bourn
They are not getting Carlos Quentin especially now after Olney’s tweet for less than two of the four pitching prospects. So lets get this done
I think Minor for Bourn straight up is more realistic
and not too bad for us. Ready for our rotation right now and the next five years.
Why sell Bourn short he is still under team control for one more year
That makes him more valuable and I think the Braves will have to pull the trigger to be competetive with the Phillies
I'm unsure if he's worth much more than the 37th best prospect (preseason)
in baseball considering we’ll be shedding salary to do it. A year and a half of Bourn v. 5 and a half years of Minor isn’t a bad deal. If we can get another A ball prospect then I say pull the trigger but Atlanta is holding onto those pitcher with a death grip and valuing them pretty high. If we get one of them then that’s not too shabby. Giving them a little money might go a long way to getting a second prospect
Yeah I dont understand why they arent using a couple of them to make some moves
Dont they know at the max you can only do 6 starting pitchers at the big league level. Beachy, Hanson, Jurrjens are going to be there for a while so they can trade two of these guys
I think their thinking is that
2 of them might not pan out or will turn into bullpen arms when it’s all said and done. If they hang onto all of them then it’s hard to imagine the Braves not having a crazy good rotation from 1 all the way down to 5 for several years. For the future it’s a smart move but yeah it doesn’t help them much right now.
Yeah
being deep at key positions in the minors is NOT a luxury it is a necessity for any team that wants to experience consistent success because there is inevitably attrition in the form of players that never make it or end up below their original ceiling as bench players.
Obviously he has a relationship with them
but I’m not so sure this is a mistake. Both Cosart and Singleton could be better than Minor. I think Wade is simply trying to hit a HR to save his job instead of settling for a solid double. Not defending Wade, but you can’t evaluate the trade when we only know one of the 4 players involved, just like we can’t completely evaluate the actual trade without knowing the 4th player. Like I know it has been reported that it isn’t Biddle, but if it is then it’s a complete HR trade that we no doubt win.
lol i was just trolling.
btw, I have short term memory loss, other than Happ, what do we have to show for the Oswalt deal?
AA shortstop Jonathon Villar and the Astros current 1st baseman, Brett Wallace. Wallace was acquired indirectly when OFer Gose was flipped to the Blue Jays after the Oswalt trade.
by clack on Jul 30, 2011 12:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
If we can move Bourn and Wandy I wouldnt be opposed to bringing Wade back for next year but we need a new coaching staff.
if he could
manage to move Lee as well, he almost needs to be brought back.
If we can actually get Friedman to come or Hunsicker back then
Wade needs to be ousted now. I know harsh and we won’t know that sadly, but I WANT FRIEDMAN BAD! I’d take Friedman more than Pujols. That’s how much I want him. Because he could help us get the next Pujols when we are competitive.
Wade hasn’t done a disastrous job as GM over his tenure, considering last night. He has made some amazing waiver wire pick ups and hasn’t completely lost on trades, although with Wallace continuing to suck it’s looking worse on that trade everyday. He did get Wolff and Hawkins for cheap. I do however think that we can do better than Wade. I don’t like him that much and would like to just see us completely clean house and start anew this off season. Maybe keep Heck but that’s it. I think the Stros just need a fresh start.
Yeah and he knows RAJ will give him value unlike a guy like Frank Wren.
by SteveBartman_MVP on Jul 30, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions
I don’t think Pence will stay long in Philly. He just doesn’t fit well in that organization and I have no idea why. He is a grinder. Doesn’t do anything smoothly, but plays baseball the way it should be played. Tough. Every play of every inning, just like Pete Rose. The rich get richer. With the Phillies pitching rotation, I would have to call them the World Series favorite over both the Yankees and Red Sox.


























