Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Player By Player Trade Likelihood

The trade deadline is a little over 2 weeks away.  Below I have handicapped the chances of each player on the 25 man roster getting traded.  I did this last year and liked the outcome.  Who do y'all think gets moved and what should the return be?

Star-divide

Pitchers:

Brett Myers- Brett can help any contender fill in the back of their rotation.  Even though he has regressed from last season, the fact that he has been durable and has experience as a reliever should help his value.  He's under team control through 2013, and while his contract is not cheap, it's also certainly not an albatross.  I would like to see a fringe top 100 prospect brought in or multiple B grade prospects.  Odds: 45%

Wandy Rodriguez- Wandy is having another very good year and has established himself as a quality lefty.  He would make a great 3rd starter on any playoff team.  He is under contract through 2014 and could prove to be a monetary bargain over that period if he continues pitching as he has for the last 3 years.  Wandy would probably be the best pitcher available this season.  I think he could fetch a similar haul to the one Houston got in the Roy Oswalt trade.  Odds: 40%

After those two, there are only two types of players on the pitching staff; those who are untouchable as young players with star potential, and those who have little to no trade value.  All of the pitchers below have less than 1% chance of being traded.

Bud Norris- should be untouchable, as he is under team control for many years and should be a good 3rd starter moving forward.

Jordan Lyles- should be untouchable, as he is the brightest young star the 'stros have had in a long time.

Aneury Rodriguez- not sure how his Rule 5 status affects his trade value, but he is young and has no trade value.

J.A. Happ- his performance this season has rendered him useless in trade discussions.

Mark Melancon- Shark certainly would have value to a team looking for a solid late inning reliever, but he should be kept as a possible closer down the road.

Wilton Lopez- Lopez is another player who would have value to a contender as a quality setup man, but again, he should be a part of the solution in Houston as he is relatively young and under team control for many years.

David Carpenter, Enerio Del Rosario, Sergio Escalona, Fernando Rodriguez- these players are all young and unproven, which means that they have little to no value to a contender and should be a part of Houston's rebuilding effort.

 

Position Players:

Jeff Keppinger- players with his attributes have a lot to offer a contender looking for infield help: strong on-base skills, good clubhouse demeanor, versatility in the field, and a manageable contract.  I might get mauled for saying this, but as a potential type A player, he should fetch a very quality prospect or two.  Similar to what Houston received for Lance Berkman last season.  He has another season of arbitration eligibility, so while Houston won't be forced to trade him this season, his injury history and the state of the franchise makes me think he gets moved, especially when you factor in that Houston has a host of players (Downs, Sanchez, Paredes, Altuve) that might be ready for everyday play at 2B.  Odds: 75%

Michael Bourn- Bourn is a premier defender and basestealer whose bat holds its own.  He doesn't make a ton of money, has team control remaining, and plays a premium position.  He is also a fan favorite and appears to be a solid citizen and good clubhouse guy.  If Houston trades him, the return should be enormous.  Multiple top 100 players or a top 20 type prospect.  Odds: 30%

Hunter Pence- The current face of the franchise is a 28 year old All-Star with solid tools all the way around, remaining upside, and is under team control through 2013.  His salary, while not insignificant, is a huge bargain for his performance.  If he is moved, it should only be in a situation that is an unquestionable blockbuster win resulting in a haul of multiple major league ready top 100 prospects, at least one of whom is a top 30 prospect.  Odds: 10%

Clint Barmes- His defense gives him some value for a team looking for an inexpensive rental shortstop.  That said, I don't think he gets moved.  Odds: 5%

Humberto Quintero- See Barmes, except substitute catcher for shortstop.  Odds: 5%

Carlos Lee- ugh.  18,000,000 times ugh.  Odds: 1%

The remaining players have less than a 1% chance of being dealt.

Matt Downs and Angel Sanchez have value, but are not likely to be made available.

Chris Johnson is young and has underperformed this season.

Brett Wallace is a rookie who is viewed as the 1B of the future in Houston.

Brian Bogusevic and Carlos Corporan are AAAA players.

Jason Michaels has no value to Houston, much less a contender.

 

The organization is in a much different position this season.  Last year, the team had 2 disgruntled former superstars (one of whom was a pending free agent), an owner demanding drastic payroll reduction, a depleted farm system, and a strong market for their available players.  This year, the team has no significant players in pending free agency, no players demanding a trade, an unsettled ownership/payroll situation, and a rapidly improving farm.  If they make Wandy, Bourn, and Pence available, there should be a solid market for them, but the team is by no means in a position of weakness with regards to trading players this season.  I expect Keppinger to be moved, but beyond that, I will be surprised by any deals.  Of course I'm in favor of rebuilding and hope every player over 26 is moved for the entire Futures Game roster, but I just don't see it happening this season.  What say you?

Comment 84 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

More from The Crawfish Boxes

Astros Minor League Open Thread

May 2012 by David Coleman - 166 comments

This Week In Astros Pitching

May 2012 by conroestro - 19 comments

TCB Fantasy Report Week 6

May 2012 by CRPerry13 - 15 comments

Comments

Display:

random trade thoughts

I wish the Crane approval would get approved already so we can start seeing at least some type of direction. I agree that trades should definitely be made, because well, look at where the Astros stand. However, since the Astros have the added luxury of actually not having to move any of there major pieces due to still being under team control then Ed Wade should scratch and claw for the maximum value for these guys.

I also think that only one of each group should get traded. For instance either Wandy or Myers, or Pence or Bourn. Maybe moreso with Myers/Wandy because of how important pitching is. If both got traded, and the Astros went for true prospects and not major league ready guys then your looking at The Hyphen and Figgy finishing out the year in the rotation. The losses would mount which wouldn’t concern me because I could see the bigger picture, but think about the amount of innings a young bullpen would have to eat up, which could lead to a greater injury risk.

I am almost to the point where I think the Astros should hold on to Myers for now. Wandy has the most trade value and could restock our system more than what Myers could. This would benefit the Astros in two ways. For one the Astros keep a dependable arm in an otherwise unstable rotation outside of Norris (at this point can we depend on Happ, Lyles innings will need to be monitored at some point, and Aneury Rodriguez?) The second benefit of this is it may allow Myers numbers to stabilize. Right now some of his peripherals point to the fact that he has been unlucky, and if his luck changes in the second half then his trade value increases and maybe he could be moved in the offseason for a greater return. By then the Astros would have a better idea of what they have in Lyles, AnRod, and whatever other rotation pieces they obtain in any trade. Its definitely a risk because Myers could be worse than the first half of the season and your stuck with him when you could have got a marginal return, but I think the pluses of keeping Myers for now and trading Wandy outweigh the negatives.

Sorry for the rambling. Probably should have just made this another fan post.

by conroestro on Jul 12, 2011 2:44 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Solid thoughts. I think Wandy has the potential to eat innings just as well as Myers and with probably better performance, and I just like Wandy in Houston better than Myers.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I just figured Wandy could net more in a trade and Myers could possibly be closer to a salary dump since his value has dipped this year.

by conroestro on Jul 12, 2011 10:13 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I could be wrong because I’m too lazy to look it up, but I think Myers, even in his subpar year, projects to be worth his salary. Also, looking at the available pitchers, even though Wandy would probably be the best available (and therefore bring back the best return), Myers would still fall somewhere in the top 5 of available starting pitchers.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

True

Good point.

by conroestro on Jul 12, 2011 10:27 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think they trade Bourn and probbably Kepp

Maybe Myers if someone wants him.

Also possibbly Wilton Lopez – given the market for relievers.

bourn I think goes to Atlanta. For Delgado or Minor. Heres why I think th .== Wade said himself Luis Durango, who they picked up on waivers from SD, is very Bourn-like – he can steal bases, bla bla, they got him to be a Bourn replacmeent or to platoon with Bourgeis when he falls off – which he probably will. Bourgeis that is. So I think they have ha d talks wtih Atlanta already and are going to pull the trigger which is cooooool by me.

Ok, so , Kepp? I hacvce no earhtly idea who they trade him to. But I think they trade Him, I think hes valuable and carries a High OBP and hiogh average. Thats valuable t a lot of teams plus he can play a lo t of positions. wsnAnd my wifes a bitch. Kepp will briing some decent enoughh prospects and It will be all gravy anf we will get a good prospect in retutrn . Maybe two,

sMyers? Shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit. Hes really screwed the ppoooch. Hasnt he? We cscrewed the pooch letting Arnsberhg go. And that might have affected his overall performance. Bur t That happens so we have to move on and hope we gcan get something of value for him. As a long reliever. Or a 5thh, possibly 4th stearter. Who do we look to for Myers? To trade>? I dont know. I dont know wholl want the guy. Maybe kNee York or Boston or even PPhilly. I think we could get back some B prospects like the Berkmansd trade which I didnit likem, BUt Pareseds is looking that much better now. Hes kicking ass in AA aand thats what maters. But Berkams is tstill my favorite playerte behind Bigg And Bags on the Stros for all time. I hope we can get saome basck some pitching forMyers.

Btw Im drulkk in case you didnt figure thatout.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jul 12, 2011 7:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Go back to bed, dad. lolz

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions  

Trade Thoughts

The only pitchers the Astros should be moving are possibly Myers or Wandy. Trading any other pitcher would be detrimental to rebuilding since we are an organization weak in pitching. If anything, we should be trading for pitchers to build up depth.

As for position players, Keppinger is the only one in my mind who is most likely to be traded. We have multiple players able to replace him there.

As for Michael Bourn & Hunter Pence, I really don’t see them being traded this year. If one of them is going to be traded, we do have options in Bourgeois & Luis Durango. Pence is probably not going to be traded since he adds so much value to this team that nobody can really replace (Homeruns) and has said he is devoted to playing in houston for the foreseeable future. And he is also under team control for another year or two.

If the Astros could show any sign of being ahead, rather than being behind the competition, maybe, just maybe the Astros will be good in the future.... Maybe

by BustaPozee on Jul 12, 2011 8:58 AM CDT reply actions  

I agree, Houston should be looking for mostly pitching in return in any deals they make. That’s why trading Bourn to Atlanta makes so much sense. He fits well for them, and they have a plethora of high ceiling starting pitching prospects, and Houston has players (Bourgeois and Durango) who could replace Bourn immediately with minimal dropoff considering the w/l record. That said, I doubt it happens.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions  

If serious effrorts aren't

made to trade Wandy, Myers, Lopez, Pence, and Bourn the Astros will not be a contender in the next 5-8 years.

by Neil Leininger on Jul 12, 2011 9:18 AM CDT reply actions  

Thats the problem, we will never know if there are serious efforts or not. I’m sure plenty of us will be pissed if there are no moves and all of our frustrations will be on Ed Wade. But, is that deservingly so? Not necessarily, he very well could get no satisfying package offers, and has to walk away and wait til the off-season or next year to get good offers.

The argument could be said for the other way. Well, he should take what he can get. Then, we’re all pissed because he got a sub-par return.

by Subber10 on Jul 12, 2011 9:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

If I add up the probabilities, SD, it seems like you are expecting (i.e., expected value) something like 2.3 players to be traded.

I think you may have overstated what the Astros could get back in some of these trades (particularly Keppinger and Myers), but I hope you are right.

by clack on Jul 12, 2011 10:09 AM CDT reply actions  

Hmm…didn’t do the % math, but I expect at least 1, maybe 2 players to be dealt. I’ll be shocked if 3 or more players get dealt this season. So if you’re math is correct, I’d say I overshot by about .8 total.

I may have overvalued those players, but when you look at who has been rumored to be available, both players would rank in the top 5 at their respective positions (IF and SP), which makes me think they should bring in a healthy return, especially considering that Houston is not in a bind with regard to being forced to move them.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think your math is off. Those probabilities are independent of each other. So instead of adding them up, you’d need to apply a total odds calculator, which would involved multiplication. I’m too lazy to do it, but would venture to guess the result would be a much lower # (somewhere in teh 1.5 range).

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 10:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

No. I think you add them together if they are independent. It’s like flipping a coin twice: 0.5 odds of heads each time, so if you flip the coin twice, the expected value for heads is one time or 0.5+0.5. If the odds of trading each player on the 25 man roster was 0.5, then the expected value would 12.5 players traded, which is the same as summing 0.5 25 times.

by clack on Jul 12, 2011 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Statistics wan an easy course for me…but I hated it…

by Subber10 on Jul 12, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Clack is correct

Unless there’s a much more complex algorithm that you used that had it more likely that we trade Kepp if we move Myers etc :)

by Patrick Harrel on Jul 12, 2011 1:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

My bad. You’re right. For some reason I was thinking there was no way it could be that simple of a calculation.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 12, 2011 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

We need to put it this way that everyone can potentialy be traded

We should legitimate offers on everyone except Norris and Lyles.

by Nado2036 on Jul 12, 2011 4:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Myers

I would keep Myers this year. He’s actually younger than Wandy and I think trading him now would be selling low. It’s not a bad idea to keep an innings eater on the rotation when breaking in other young pitchers.

by jmike on Jul 12, 2011 5:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Percentages

Good article. I would put Keppinger at a 95% chance of getting traded, Bourn at a 50% chance, and Wandy 33% (player option complicates trading him).

by jmike on Jul 12, 2011 5:20 PM CDT reply actions  

I think we need young pitching. Period.

Wade needs to make some magic happen and trade some of our vets. Thats everybody not named Pence. Wandy, Myers, Kepp, Bourn. We need to get more talent in the system because the draft alone is just a piece of what we need and we seem to have gone quiet on the IFA front.

I will be upset even moreso at this team, which is very hard to be, if they dont trade atleast Kepp, Bourn and Myers. Theres no reason not to. So get on it Wade.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jul 12, 2011 5:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Most likely to be traded in order and what we should garner for them

Keppinger, a solid solid player that I would be excited to see go only to get Downs (Who, arguably, has a better ceiling) more regular playing time. He should bring us two B level prospects much like the Lindstrom trade.

Bourn, an outstanding defender and a great threat when he gets on base to score. Bourn has replacements in Bourgeois and that new guy who I’m to lazy to look up (Durango?) Bourn is a local guy, a fan favorite, and a premium athlete. If he could hit more he would be worth gutting your farm to get but as is he should bring back a top 5 system prospect and a B and a C level guy. Not a trade that would blow anybody away by hisself.

Wandy, an ace of most staffs when he is on is too much of a risk for teams to give up a ton of prospects for. He can be very dominant but he can also be very hittable at times which keeps him as a #2 starter at best without the consistancy. Wandy could fetch two top guys from a desperate club but with Ed handling the negotiations I think we’d probably see something like the Bourn return (1A, 1B, 1C).

Myers, a good #3 starter on a lot of teams, doesn’t bring dominant stuff anymore but can still dominate hitters with his placement and selection. Trading Myers now would be a bad move because he’s having a big down year and wouldn’t net much return. Its not going to hurt us to wait until next year to put him on the table because he could rebound closer to what he was last year and that would be something worth selling. Right now I see a Linstrom return of two B level prospects and nobody that would blow anybody away. Still for a deperate team there’s no harm in listening eh? As long as its JUST LISTENING….looking at you Wade! If you can’t get what you would have gotten for him last year turn it down.

by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 13, 2011 4:16 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Lindstrom was traded for two B prospects? That wasn’t my impression. Lindstrom was traded for Aristil and Musick.

by clack on Jul 13, 2011 7:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah

too organizational fillers.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

He's using the term "B" loosely

Like a “B” movie. Saying that Bourn or Wandy could get an A prospect shows he is using a different scale. There are only like 5 A prospects (the 15th best prospect in the minors is probably considered a B+).

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah…I was thinking A, B, C, etc. in terms of Sickles’ grading.

by clack on Jul 13, 2011 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brain Fart

I was thinking we got Aristil and Cisnero or Cedeno or somebody for Lindstrom. I still maintain two B level prospect. Raw but talented guys.

by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 13, 2011 3:00 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Example of B prospects in the Astros system

1. George Springer
2. Jose Altuve

DDJ and JD and Ovando are B- types at this point.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

no he isn't

you are using a different grading system. there are ~15 total A- or better prospects in the minors. jordan lyles is not one of them either. if you aren’t in the top 50, you aren’t even a B+ probably. springer certainly wouldn’t be on many top 50 lists right now.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 6:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

you could argue

that Springer is a B+ but he is a B/B+, and by most accounts a B at this point. that means top 100 by the way.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 6:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agreed. I think you’re right on with your grades. The A prospects are scarce.

by MadMartygan on Jul 13, 2011 6:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

they may get there at some point...maybe soon

but there might be a couple A- types…maybe…definitely no As.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Oh, well yeah I am using a different system.

Usually Baseball Prospectus or even BA. I guess they rate the players relative to their own team.

In all of baseball? You’re right they have to prove themselves first.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jul 13, 2011 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Rendon would be.

by MadMartygan on Jul 13, 2011 6:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lol. You guys take are taking the opinions of some guys

who are forming a list of top prospects based off of second and third hand information. Besides to grade these young men and kids and they haven’t even played a single inning of pro ball is ridiculous. For every “A/B” prospect you guys salivate over there is a Piazza or Oswalt who come out of nowhere and outshine those “A/B” prospects and go on to excellent careers. You guys put WAY too much stock into prospect ratings.

by StrosSouth on Jul 13, 2011 7:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

It’s arbitrary for the most part but it’s fun. We make lists and we go over lists, people just do that. That’s why Letterman has done a top 10 list for the last 30 years.

Just because you can find a star in the last round like piazza or 23rd round like Oswalt, that doesn’t mean it’s not easier to find a star in this list of top 50.

by MadMartygan on Jul 13, 2011 8:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

The more I think about it, the more I feel like Wade is going to hold out for massive returns. I had someone I trust tell me “if Houston gets what they are asking for all of their major peices this season, they will have 10 of the top 100 prospects in baseball.”

There’s no reason to think that Wandy, Pence, and Bourn couldn’t bring in 2 top 100 types each, and I wouldn’t be shocked to see Myers and Keppinger bring in a fringe top 100 guy apeice.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 13, 2011 8:59 AM CDT reply actions  

I’ll bet that other than Pence, no one else brings what you suggest in that second paragraph and I’m a big fan of Wandy and MB.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 13, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Too optimistic

When you say two top 100 types, that means Lyles and Springer (which would be a roughly average two-some of top 100 prospects). Imagine we are in a playoff race this year. What kind of rental player would you need to get to trade away Lyles and Springer?

Would you trade away Altuve for a Keppinger/Myers type? Because I don’t think we have any other true fringe top 100 type.

If the Astros sell every semi-veteran type, they will be VERY VERY lucky to land a total of 2 top 100 prospects, plus maybe 2 other fringe types, and some low-end additions. Then the team would have 3 consensus top 100 types (Lyles no longer counting), plus 3 true fringe types…maybe one of the fringe types becomes a near-consensus top 100 prospect and maybe DDJ or JD Martinez or whoever establishes himself as true fringe top 100 type.

So best case in a dream scenario that is still somewhat realistic, the Astros will have 4 consensus top 100 types (though probably no top 25 types, maybe no top 50 types either), and 3 true fringy types. That would mean getting very lucky in trades, trading everyone basically, and having a co0ple top prospects take a leap forward before the end of the season.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

I still very much doubt we end up in that situation though

Like I said it would take some serious luck and rebuild commitment from the GM/owner. I hope we do end up getting what I think might be a realistically optimistic haul, and I really hope that snake is right, and several other GMs do something dramatically unexpected, but I bet we end up holding onto to most of the players we’ve got instead of taking a solid and fair deal.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I'm a team in the playoff hunt that has 1 or 2 missing players and defined needs:

I gladly trade Lyles and Springer for Michael Bourn if I think that gets me from also ran to Series contender.

I would trade Jose Altuve for Brett Myers right now.

This is what I would imagine:

Hunter Pence to Philadelphia for Cosart, Singleton, and a bad contract.
Michael Bourn to Atlanta for Minor, McLouth, and Vizcaino.
Wandy Rodriguez and cash to New York for Betances and Brackman.
Brett Myers and cash to Colorado for Arenado.
Jeff Keppinger to Detroit for Oliver.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 13, 2011 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s 8 of the BA 2011 Top 100; throw in Altuve and one other current Astros prospect in the discussion for top 100 (Martinez, etc.), and that where the 10 comment came from.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 13, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Where do I sign up for that one?…Nice.

by PeteyNhtown on Jul 13, 2011 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

i know where the 10 came from

just wildly absurd that it could happen if even we traded all those players away.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 5:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

i don't even hope for that kind of return

it is like hoping jordan lyles will be the best pitcher in MLB next season. would i love it to happen? yes. could it happen in theory? i guess he could have the lowest starter ERA with a ton of luck, but not likely enough wins or ks to get the CY or anything. however, i just hope he can be an average starter next season, which is still a long shot at his age. i don’t actually think about the possibility that he’ll be the best pitcher in baseball next season.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 5:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, as I said earlier, I DON"T expect Houston to make 5 trades this year. I expect 1, maybe 2. Any more than that would shock me and would probably mean Ed Wade is either a genius or a moron.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 13, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

if the astros get half that value

for any particular player, it will be insane.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

well

the pence one is close enough to reality, that it is likely we could get half the value you suggested.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 13, 2011 5:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Personally I only see kepp ( for a C grade prospect) and maybe bourn being dealt. I think bourn could get one of vizcaino or Delgado from the braves and a throw in like mcclouth, bourn still has a year and half of team control as well. A couple of guys at MLB trade rumors were saying the Astros may be able to get Dom brown and cozart from the phillies for pence but I personally doubt that, that would definitly make wade think for a sec right?

by Astro Dave88 on Jul 14, 2011 12:42 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

So pretty much everyone concedes that Hunter Pence is worth 2 top 100 prospects.
The recent trade scenario articles show Keppinger’s surplus value is worth a fringe top 100 prospect.
Everyone probably agrees that Bourn and Wandy are worth way more than Kepp, but not quite as much as Pence.
Everyone also probably agrees that Myers is worth close to what Keppinger is worth.

Looks like Houston’s asking prices shouldn’t be too far off of what I suggested.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 14, 2011 11:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't agree Pence is worth two top 100 prospects

Maybe two back-end or fringe ones. But not high-end ones. Could I see one mid-range 100 and some other piece? Maybe, but that would be a clear win for the Astros…maybe a win-win, but the Astros would be getting the better end of it for sure. If Pence was magically in year 1 of his rookie contract, then 2 top 100 prospects (even good ones) could be reasonable. But $ and time are bigger factors than you think.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 14, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

Do you think Pence is worth less than Oswalt was last year? Gose and Villar were top 100 type prospects, and they were included with a (at the time) solid big league pitcher in Happ.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 14, 2011 1:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

here goes...

1) Yes, Oswalt was worth more. Near elite SPs are worth a lot if you are a very serious contender that is almost guaranteed to make the playoffs. In the playoffs SPs are worth more than position players. And even if you could make the argument that Pence now should be valued more than Oswalt because of the semi-cost controlled (still expensive) upcoming years, organizations in playoff races always value experienced proven elite or semi-elite pitchers over outfielders of a similar quality.

2) Gose and Villar were very much fringy top 100 prospects, not near-consensus ones like people are suggesting might be reasonable trade targets. I think only BA considered Villar a back-end top 100 prospect of all sources. I believe Gose was not on one top 100 list from a noteworthy source. Of all the prospects you listed in your previous post (the one about 13 posts up), the most realistic comp for Gose and Villar is Arenado and Brackman, and that is only because Brackman has slipped quite a bit this season. Cosart, Singleton, Minor, Vizcaino, Betances, and Oliver were all near-consensus top 100 prospects entering this season.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 14, 2011 2:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

Also, the Astros sent $10 million with Oswalt. I don’t see the Astros sending money with Pence.

by clack on Jul 14, 2011 4:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whoever would acquire Pence would be doing so with the objective of having him until 2013, and would see the value in having control over him through that year.

I’d be interested in seeing Pence’s surplus value now against what Oswalt’s value was last season (factoring in the $ that Houston sent with him).

I just find it impossible to believe that Oswalt was worth more than Pence.

by Snake Diggity on Jul 15, 2011 8:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

I should add

…that Arenado also made several top 100 lists and his value is higher than it was pre-season probably….so he’s a bad comp for Gose or Villar as well.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 14, 2011 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

I place Myers’ trade value fairly low at this point. I think the results of his trade would point more in the direction of salary dump than a trade for a prospect.

by clack on Jul 14, 2011 4:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s why the Astros should keep Myers this year, rather than sell low.

by jmike on Jul 14, 2011 6:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

Could the Astros throw in extra cash in a potential Myers deal to get a better prospect?

by PeteyNhtown on Jul 14, 2011 10:08 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t know. My guess is that it’s unlikely with the ownership in limbo.

by clack on Jul 15, 2011 3:25 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think realistically, with Pence, we could get one of Brown or Cosart.

And then minor pieces. Singleton also is probably pushing it. But we could get fringe guys to go along with Brown. Theres a possibility if Philly really wanted him we could get Brown and May or one of their other Clearwater guys.

Id love to trade Bourn to Atlanta and think one of their guys (MInor, Viz, Delgado, Beachy) could be had for him. CoCo Crisp is just not going to be enough. I think they want Bourn and they’ll give up one of those guys for him.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jul 13, 2011 6:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Really Im only expecting 2 trades and 3 at the most

I can see us losing Kepp for sure, Wandy if he starts to pitch like he knows how and Bourn if a team coughs up enough. I doubt we trade Pence because he’s the only hope this team has left. I doubt we trade Myers because with what he has shown we wouldn’t get anything of value back and what’s the point of trading him then?

Regarding Bourn, isn’t Nyjer Morgan available somewhere, probably for cheaper?

by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 13, 2011 7:07 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Morgan is doing well and not available. I don’t think he’s a premium defender like MB or a premium base runner either. They did get him cheap, for Cutter Dykstra who has a chance to be a utility guy or 3B but probably won’t.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 13, 2011 8:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Brewers better be careful not to follow Astros footsteps

You can only take take take for so long before you have to give give give. They’ve sacrificed a lot of minor leaguers lately

by Its Gonna Happen on Jul 13, 2011 9:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Morgan had a horrible season as a defender last year. Taking poor routes and making a ton of mistakes. Has he turned that around in Milwaukee? Some of the Nationals’ fans at BBTF last year said that Morgan could use his speed on the base paths, but that it didn’t help his defense in CF.

by clack on Jul 14, 2011 7:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

I wouldn’t call him horrible, but he’s nothing special. I’d put the debate at whether he’s closer to average or poor.

 He made a really nice catch at the wall right when he came to the team and he’s a max effort guy so the visual impression is always good, so fanbase here likes him. Gomez runs under the ball and catches it. Ho hum.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 14, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pirates may have had the right idea when they put Morgan in LF, allowing him to look good on defense.

I also have to say my impression of Morgan is influenced by a couple of his games at MMP last year when he made some really bad mistakes. But that may have been just a bad stretch of games for him.

by clack on Jul 14, 2011 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions  

Braves fan here - just wanted to see how much you guys valued your players in potential trades

So how would this deal work out for you?

Mike Minor (LH SP with MLB experience, little service time, and a mid-to-high ceiling; to start the 2011 ranked #23 prospect in MiLB)

Arodys Vizcaino (RH SP at the AA soon to be AAA level. Ranked by BA in July 2011 as the 16th prospect in all of MiLB – could be left to season up as a starter or could be called up immediately and could perform out of the ’pen)

Cory Gearrin (RH BP with MLB experience. Quality submarining RHP that could be used as MR, SU or even could garner a look at CL. Ranked as 13th best prospect in the Braves system, but that speaks more for the depth of the system than anything else)

Christian Behtnancourt (C – top hitting prospect in the Braves system and at least Top 5 in Braves minor league)

Mycal Jones (OF/IF – one of the most promising positional prospects the Braves have, currently in AA. Top 5 hitting prospect for the Braves and can play anywhere in the OF and up the middle in the IF)

JJ Hoover (RH SP or RP currently at AAA. Could be called up immediately as a quality BP arm or could be used next season as a potential starter. #11 prospect in the Braves system)

Would that be enough to land Pence/Bourn AND Keppinger?

What pieces do you need? Are you looking for young pitching, quality BP arms, high-ceiling prospects, positional players, or what?

And yes, I only included 3 Top 10 prospects from the Braves system (one of them being Top 20 in MiLB), but that is not due to trying to hold on to certain Minor League prospects – in most cases, these “prospects” are now playing for the Big club (Kimbrel, Venters, Freeman and Beachy) only really leaving Teheran (who I’m assuming everyone knows isn’t going anywhere), Randal Delgado (who could be included with the removal of a few pieces), and then a few other prospects (Salcedo, Perez and Lipa) who could be substituted/added.

Everyone gets two free stupid comments. After that, I start charging.

by Wren_and_Stimpy on Jul 14, 2011 12:10 AM CDT reply actions  

To get all three of those guys, I think vizcaino, Delgado, and minor would be dealt, and an extra piece. Pence alone has been rumored with the phillies for just Dom brown and Jared cozart. Plus all of those guys have a year and half of service left. It may seem alot but we can’t under sale our guys or we will be screwd for a longggg time

by Astro Dave88 on Jul 14, 2011 12:48 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I would say Ed wade is looking for an MLB ready pitcher like beachey to save his job in the deal (minor is arguably MLB ready) but for me personally I feel like we need high impact guys a year or 2 down the road which is why I suggested minor, vizcaino, Delgado, and a throw in

by Astro Dave88 on Jul 14, 2011 1:00 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I don't think he meant all 3

The way I understand Wren and Stimpy’s trade proposal, he was proposing

Minor, Vizcaino, Gearrin, Bethancourt, Jones, and Hoover
for
Pence or Bourn and Keppinger

I’d say it’s definitely enough for Bourn and Kepp.

Might be enough for Pence and Kepp.

by Matt McDougle on Jul 14, 2011 1:26 AM CDT up reply actions  

I LOVE Pence. Its really hard to let go of him.

But I think thats a very, very strong offer. Even for all 3. It hink if we could sub Salcedo for Betancourt you probably have yourself a deal. … In my meaningless internet trade anyway. Haha.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jul 14, 2011 2:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

if we could land one of those top 3 pitchers

plus some other piece, that would be GREAT for the Astros.

by auclairkeithbc on Jul 14, 2011 12:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Craig Roberts (former Channel 2 sports anchor)

said on his show tonight that he’s heard the Astros have had talks with all the playoff contending teams and so far the players that those contenders have been offering the Astros haven’t been very impressive. Sounds like the Astros’ potential trade partners are trying to lowball them, which is the direct opposite of what has been reported elsewhere about the Astros allegedly asking for too much.

by Matt McDougle on Jul 14, 2011 1:29 AM CDT reply actions  

They could be the same though. Fans like us often use trades that had huge returns in the past as measuring sticks for what they want.

"Prince Fielder is too fat even for the Oakland A’s" - Billy Beane

by ol Pete on Jul 14, 2011 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Crawfishboxes, the SBNation blog for the Houston Astros.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Chimp_small
The Importance of George Springer

Recent FanPosts

Small
Oswalt in 2012
Small
Heck and Co. - Your time is up.
Small
Santana and a bold new top 10, etc..
Astros_retro_logo1_small
Lance Berkman with possible torn ACL...
Astros_retro_logo1_small
Quasi update on Lucas Giolito for draft
100_1519_small
Good News
Small
Thinking about where the top 2012 draftees will be ranked for 2013
Astros_small
Most valuable building blocks
Nsapcs13_large_small
Minor League Open Thread

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

TCB Tweets!

    

Current Series

3 game series vs Dodgers @ Dodger Stadium

Fri 05/25 WP: Lucas Harrell (4 - 3)
SV: Brett Myers
LP: Clayton Kershaw (4 - 2)
3 - 1 win
Sat 05/26 WP: Kenley Jansen (4 - 0)
LP: Wesley Wright (0 - 1)
3 - 6 loss

Houston Astros
@ Los Angeles Dodgers

Sunday, May 27, 2012, 3:10 PM CDT
Dodger Stadium

J.A. Happ vs Chris Capuano

Partly cloudy. Winds blowing out to right field at 10-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 75.

Complete Coverage >

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
Cincinnati 26 20 .565 0 Won 1
St. Louis 25 22 .531 1.5 Lost 3
Houston 22 24 .478 4 Lost 1
Pittsburgh 22 24 .478 4 Won 2
Milwaukee 19 27 .413 7 Lost 1
Chicago 15 31 .326 11 Lost 11

(updated 5.27.2012 at 1:03 AM CDT)

Yahoo_full_count

Managing Editors

Tcb_icon_small Timothy De Block

Old_school_dome_logo_small David Coleman

Editors

Nsapcs13_large_small clack

H_astros_small Subber10

Astrobritrs2_small AstroB

Small conroestro

Small CRPerry13