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Springer pick - evaluating the Astros' BPPA strategy

The Astros appear to have nabbed the man they were after, judging from the excitement in the draft room right before the 11th pick. By most accounts 21 year-old outfielder George Springer is a rare athlete with star potential. He is the type of player one would hope for in a quality-rich draft.

Springer was arguably the best position player available (BPPA) when the Astros picked. I prefer him to the three position players who were drafted at 8, 9, and 10, and no position player drafted later in the round seems to surpass him either. The only possible exception, Josh Bell, was not drafted at all in the first round, since his signability is in doubt.

The question about the Springer pick is whether it was best to choose him over the many talented pitchers still available at that pick. Jungmann, Barnes, J. Bradley, and Gray were all listed as top 10 talent in various prospect lists, and they are all college pitchers with considerable polish and a chance to move through the minor leagues rather quickly. Was it a good move to choose the BPPA and not simply the BPA (Best Player Available)?

Star-divide

To answer that question, there are several factors to consider:

1) Some analysts (Jim Bowden - ESPN, Dave Cameron - Fangraphs) have argued recently that pitchers are such high risks that position players of similar talent make better picks in the first half of the first round. They base this claim more on anecdotal evidence than on detailed statistical analysis, but the reasoning (pitchers have a higher injury risk) seems sound enough.

2) The Astros current needs - pitching is high on the Astros' needs list. Lyles has succeeded, yes, but after that the ranks thin considerably. As the old adage says, you can never have too much pitching. The Astros risk having too little. Of course, at the same time, high-impact bats are also a need in the system, and Springer potentially fits this bill (see OremLK's positive take on Springer in his recent draft analysis).

3) What will be available later in the draft? It is a deep draft, so it is possible that the Astros could still pick up some strong pitching prospects, especially in rounds 2 or 3.

4) Comparing apples to oranges - even though Springer and the pitchers the Astros bypassed are all college players, they are not the same types of prospects. Many of the pitchers are expected to advance quickly, with a high probability of making a solid contribution in the majors, even though their ceilings are not incredibly high. That is probably why they all dropped into the teens on draft day. Springer, on the other hand, has a very high upside (not like Castro, Mier, and DeShields in recent drafts) but is thought to need plenty of time to refine his skills, especially his swing. In a sense, the Astros are swinging for the fences more with Springer, and I like that. It could be argued that one middle of the rotation pitcher will not change the shape of our organization as much as a potential star position player.

In the end, I think that the Astros made the right decision, as long as they pick up pitching in the next round or two.  While Springer may not have been the BPA, he was the BPPA, and perhaps that is exactly what the Astros need right now.

Comment 43 comments  |  2 recs  | 

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I like the pick

Right after the pick I said Springer has a long swing. That is fact but not a knock.

He was the best college PPA. He’s a great fielder, with a good arm, decent plate discipline, and good baserunning that steals. To me that plays in the MLB. The question with him is if he can adjust to get his contact at the MLB level. If he is able to put his bat on the ball he has the ability to be a very good player. He will need to adjust to do this. Even though he has great polish on the other parts of his game I would let his success determine his advancement through the minors. He will strike out so don’t get hopes down or up over that.

I like him over Mahtook.

I agree with your #1 note for the most part. I do think that some pitchers are less likely to fall off due to injury though. I personally think Jungman brought enough talent and durability to justify the BAP at #11. I would have gone with him.

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Jun 7, 2011 10:37 AM CDT reply actions  

Springer's long swing

Based on what measurement? Surely all the sabre guys on this board are not going to accept an unsupported assertion? Haven’t measured/counted his quickness from first move of the bat head into the swing plane till contact so I can’t say you’re wrong. How do you know you’re right?

by Seriously? on Jun 7, 2011 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

It stems from his loading mechanism

There is a perception that he takes longer to get his bat started and takes a huge rip. I haven’t measured it, I don’t know if it’s true.

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by OremLK on Jun 8, 2011 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions  

my count

Got a friend to convert the videos to something I could watch in quicktime. I count four frames from first move of the bathead into the swing plane till contact on one of his game swings. I can’t say he’ll hit, but I can say he’s quick enough.

by Seriously? on Jun 8, 2011 8:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

loading mechanism

I should add I’m a lot less concerned with how long it takes him to load than I am how long it takes him to unload.

For those of you wishing to study hitting mechanics and teaching/training methodologies at the level the sabre guys study stats, I recommend englishbeyhitting . com

by Seriously? on Jun 8, 2011 8:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Exactly Orem

Seriously: you are talking about bat speed.

His bat is moving all over the place, through multiple plains. The reason it is long is because there is no set place it begins. His timing mechanism never resets his bat.

It is long because he is likely to be beat by good FB inner half.

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Jun 8, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

PnRScouting video...last swing

Looking at it frame by frame and slow motion I don’t see what you are talking about. Long swing is not about bat speed. The fastest bat speeds in the world are the men’s major slowpitch players speaking of long swings. Long has to do with how much elapsed time there is first move of the bat head into the swing plane till contact. That’s not arguable. The trick is to be as quick as possible with enough bat speed to hit it out or in the gap depending on your gifts. Just over the fence done often is better than way over the fence once in awhile. If you email me I’ll send you the link to download the videos you can view in quicktime. mark_h45@hotmail.com

by Seriously? on Jun 8, 2011 11:34 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well..

We seem to be taking older College arms right now. Guys that are sure to sign. But I see limited upside to most of these guys. So far Houser and Armstrong look like they could have ace potential.

Dont get me wrong i LOVE the Springer pick, its just that I wish we had just one more pick in the 1st – c’est la vie.

I’d like to see us draft some more HS guys with higher upside. But, so far pretty decent draft.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jun 7, 2011 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

I love the pick

most people have talked about either Pence or Bourn not being here in a few years and if he pans out he could perfectly fill both voids

Firesale! Everyone must go!

by astrosfan1989 on Jun 7, 2011 8:43 PM CDT reply actions  

1) Some analysts (Jim Bowden – ESPN, Dave Cameron – Fangraphs) have argued recently that pitchers are such high risks that position players of similar talent make better picks in the first half of the first round. They base this claim more on anecdotal evidence than on detailed statistical analysis, but the reasoning (pitchers have a higher injury risk) seems sound enough.

There’s more than just anecdotal evidence. Rany Jayzerli and Victor Wang have each done their own study, using different methodologies. Both of them found that, in the first round, at least, college hitters create more value for the team that drafted them than college pitchers or high school hitters/pitchers.

Wang broke it down by round in a pretty clear way and found that 1st round hitters provided 1.5x-2x more value than 1st round pitchers. In the 2nd round, that advantage tightens up. College hitters did a little better than college pitchers who did a little better than high school pitchers who did a little better than high school hitters. In the 3rd round, the college hitter’s advantage disintegrates and suddenly high school hitters and college pitchers have over 2x the success of college hitters. The moral of the story is draft a bat first, then stock up on pitching. Which the Astros seem to do.

Jayzerli did a very intensive multi-part study (google "rany jazayerli doctoring the numbers the draft " to see his results in detail). He was able to summarize the results in a handful of rules. One of these rules was "College hitters enjoy a sizeable advantage over every other class of draft pick, in both eras, and in every round. " Now, this goes against Wang’s findings in the third round, but they used different methodologies and came to the same conclusion, at the very least, about college hitters in the first round.

I wouldn’t be surprised to find that scouts and scouting directors have a very intuitive feel for the results that Jayzerli and Wang found.

by AstroAndy on Jun 7, 2011 9:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Yeah I read this. It’s good stuff. I was very happy about getting the 2nd best college bat.

by MadMartygan on Jun 7, 2011 10:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Who was the best college bat?

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by Timothy De Block on Jun 8, 2011 6:56 AM CDT up reply actions  

Rendon?

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by OremLK on Jun 8, 2011 8:12 AM CDT up reply actions  

oh yeah

He fell so far in the draft that he fell right out of my mind.

I guess I was thinking in the outfield.

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by Timothy De Block on Jun 8, 2011 9:11 AM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah. I think Rendon, on hitting talent alone, is a can’t miss guy.

by MadMartygan on Jun 9, 2011 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

Nats are getting a lot of injury guys. Strasburg-elbow. Rendon-shoulder; ankle. Purke-shoulder. Harper-brain.

by MadMartygan on Jun 9, 2011 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Thanks – That’s good stuff to further confirm that this was the right move.

by pacbellpilgrim on Jun 8, 2011 6:05 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think he is right that Bowden and Cameron supported their assertions with anecdotal evidence. I hadn’t reviewed those studies, so thanks for mentioning them. I have heard saber types say this, but generally had only seen those comments supported by anecdotal evidence like Cameron’s.

by clack on Jun 8, 2011 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

You heard it here first.

Springer will end up being a borderline Hall of Famer.

by Snake Diggity on Jun 8, 2011 12:16 PM CDT reply actions  

haha he has the potential

I hope he is one of the next 40 40 guys just one season that would be awsome

Firesale! Everyone must go!

by astrosfan1989 on Jun 8, 2011 3:06 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have the same feeling.

"In the biographies of men and nations, success often arrives in a mask of failure"

by hunterpencefan on Jun 9, 2011 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions  

I hope so.

I don’t mind dreaming on a guy like Springer. Better than wasting one second of thought on a guy like Wikoff.

by auclairkeithbc on Jun 9, 2011 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t understand the Wikoff hatred. You’re killin the vibe, man!

by Snake Diggity on Jun 9, 2011 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry

There are just so many others that you could focus on instead. A guy who is realistically a longshot to become as good as Tommy Manzella is worth keeping an eye on, but only one eye at a time, and you shouldn’t look too long.

by auclairkeithbc on Jun 10, 2011 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wikoff has had waaaay higher contact rates than Manzella ever has...

I understand not getting excited about him, but we can hope that he could be a potential utility guy for us off the bench.

Don’t like the hate on him…

by Irish Pete on Jun 11, 2011 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well again

saying he’s not in the top 50 Astros prospects isn’t hating on him. It is just loving the other 50 guys more than the rest of you.

by auclairkeithbc on Jun 12, 2011 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

More signings

 Saturday draft pick signings: OFs Brandon Meredith (6), Jarvis Reynolds (7), LHP Scott Zuloaga (16), SS James Howick (21) …

 2B Ruben Sosa (23), RHP James Propst (38), LHP James Hardoin (47). Astros have signed 25 of their 50 draft picks.

by StrosSouth on Jun 11, 2011 5:05 PM CDT reply actions  

Please

add Springer, Armstrong, and Gandy more than the other 25 left.

by Neil Leininger on Jun 11, 2011 10:02 PM CDT reply actions  

Springer not doing so great against Gamecocks

So far 1-6, I think. 1 single. Has tremendous bat speed though, Im not worried.

I want to know who got/drafted USC’s Michael Roth. Last 4 starts 30 IP, 0 Runs, 10 k’s/
Watched him last night, and he worked on mainly off speed stuff, but made the hitters look ridiculous.

As I type this Springer makes very nice catch in Center, then he follows that up with error out there as well. Still raw.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jun 12, 2011 6:54 PM CDT reply actions  

Sounds like Hoke Granger and Gandy Stubblefield are going to be tough signs.

Granger fractured his back, which kept him from getting seen by the Astros’ national crosschecker, and wasn’t able to go the Astros pre-draft workout. This article indicates the Astros are going to follow him through the summer to see how his back heals up. The article also indicates that he’s likely to go to a junior college for a year to up his draft stock unless the Astros offer him more money than they are expected to and agree to pay for his college at a future date.

As for Horace Gandy Stubblefield, he says he’s always wanted to be an Aggie and that “there will be a lot of negotiating.” So I guess it’ll probably go down to the wire on him. He’s got a great name though, and I hope one day his jersey will be an Astros best-seller.

by AstroAndy on Jun 12, 2011 8:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Cool.

Thanks for the update. Depending on how Granger bounces back from his back. Heh. I would give this kid a very high bonus. Like 2nd round money. His numbers are off the charts, I think that would probably swoon him our way.

by YohannDookeyblue on Jun 12, 2011 9:30 PM CDT reply actions  

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