Ed Wade Needs More Relievers, Astros Lose
What a way to reward our newest starting pitcher. Aneury Rodriguez only gave up one hit in his five innings of work, but Brandon Lyon struck again, giving up four hits and three runs while not recording an out in the ninth inning.
You'll hear all the right things from Brad Mills in the coming weeks, but with Wilton Lopez back from his injury and pitching an effective inning today, how long before he seriously considers the problem he has at closer? I'm not going to be foolish enough to expect Mark Melancon to be auditioned for the job, but if Lopez is healthy, he has to be considered at some point, right?
The Astros aren't at the point where they'll just give up on Lyon, writing him off as a sunk cost, but they're getting damned close. He's at best the second-best reliever in that pen right now and at worst, he might not be able to pitch in the sixth inning. If and when Wilton Lopez is fully recovered, Mills has the previous confidence in him to give him a shot in the ninth. Maybe he doesn't, but all I know is something has to change. And soon.
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What a joke...
That 9th inning. Watching him pitch now makes me sick, even when he does somehow manage to get outs.
Brandon Lyon
is the worst signing since Carlos Lee. I remember seeing him blow saves with Arizona, when i’d go on road trips to see the boys… He is grossly over-paid with nothing to show for it.
Teleport Or Go Blind! - What would you do if you were fragged by a wookie?
Brandon Lyon definitely needs to be moved out of the closer spot and used in low leverage situations to try and get it together. This is assuming that he isn’t injured, which I’m starting to wonder. Basically, that’s the way that Ryan Franklin (who seems to me most comparable to Lyon) and Matt Thornton have been treated after similar strings of blown saves. At this point, the fear that Lyon incites in Astros fans in the 9th inning reminds me of Brad Lidge during his worst slumps.
by clack on May 4, 2011 3:44 PM CDT reply actions 4 recs
I rec'd it because I agreed with it
I’m just as frustrated with Lyon as anybody else, but it’s the manager that keeps sending him out there in these situations. Something is obviously wrong with the guy, I imagine it’s foremost in Lyon’s head as well when he goes out there that he’s probably going to blow another save, so why is he still sent out there in those situations? If he isn’t physically injured, he should be used when the game isn’t on the line to see if there is any chance at all he can get any confidence back. I don’t see what’s BS about removing him from the closer role and trying to salvage any value that he might still be able to have for the team.
He was calling BS on the fact that here at TCB one rec will get a comment green, where as some where else it may take more than one rec before it turns green.
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on May 4, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions
oh yeah...
Lyon is terrible. Anytime someone appeals to authority in a baseball argument, all you need to say is “Ed Wade” and “Brandon Lyon.”
Sign Carlos Silva!!!
Should've traded this guy
instead of Lindstrom. At least he had good enough stuff to close out games.
I'm annoyed with Mills too
We had a 6 run lead last night….Lyon has struggled all season long but rather than put him in when we have a big lead, he waits to bring him in to blow another game. And he was obviously planning on either living or dying by Lyon as he had no one warming up in the pen when Lyon couldn’t get anyone out. Yes our choices we’re Enerio or Figgy but when Lyon comes in to the tune of BB, wild pitch, Single, Single….hmm maybe you should get someone up in the pen.
Mills hasn't been paying attention to the signs.
Usually when you smell gas, you want to leave the area as fast as possible. 4 saves, 4 blown saves. Play the better pitcher. After all, it’s JUST the 9th inning. Not like it’s anything special.
A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...
If I see Mills trot BPrandon Lyon out there in a save situation one more time, I’m just turning the game off. I fully expect Lyon to give up a bunch of hits and blow the game. Im not watching his shit anymore.
I’m singlehandedly trying to make the #dammitlyon hashtag trend on Twitter.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
Great title!
Lyon has to be done as the closer…right? I think Melancon has to prove that he can handle the high stress situations and keep his composure before he gets his shot. Lopez is the closer as soon as we know he’s healthy and Fulchino (keep your remarks to yourself) can be a good set up man. I’m thinking those 3 can alternate the 8th and 9th inning and ease the work load. Del Rosario has really impressed me but he’s inconsistant. I keep him as a 7th inning guy this year and maybe see him in the later innings next year.
Side note: An Rod did a FANTASTIC job today. I am really happy with the results even if he missed his spots a lot today.
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 4:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Lindstrom currently has a 0.77 ERA.
Hasn’t given up much hits with a .225 batting average against.
A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...
He's also not the closer
and hasn’t pitched in the 2nd half of the season, yet.
by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 5:36 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
From Levine
“Lyon was not available to talk after the game”
Of course. Blow another game and then hide from the questions.
by Astrofan on May 4, 2011 5:07 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Still some value.....
…but not as a full-time closer. Not sharp enough control and not enough swings-and-misses…..Sill can handle the 8th, though.
I also don’t see Lopez as a potential closer; also not enough Ks, plus they may need to ration his workload after the sore arm…..Think Melancon should get first shot; then Fulchino (long shot, but he’s earned at least a chance); and then Valdez, who probably has the best stuff and might catch lightning in a bottle in a clearly-defined role (i.e, just get these three guys out).
It’s not like a couple (more) blown saves is going to cost us a playoff spot or anything; let’s give the kids a shot and see if one of them can seize the job….
For those who preferred Lindstrom over Lyon: I agree, but Lindstrom was tradeable and Lyon was not, due to their contracts. However, Lindstrom is also spectacularly inconsistent, so we might have been having this same conversation anyway…..
.
You say Lopez doesn't have enough Ks
then you bring up two people with worse SO/9 innings rate than the guy you summarily discharged.
Fulchino and Melancon also have higher BB/9 rates than Lopez, you hardly walks anyone.
by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Time for Mark Melancon to close games.
Mills has to stop being so nice to Lyon; that’s now 3 blown saves in 7 opportunities (.571 SV% doesn’t cut it) and he only has 1 clean outing of the 4 saves he does have. NEXT!
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
.571 is being generous, he’s 4 for 8 in saves.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
Oops.
Guess I was being generous, I left out Wednesday’s massacre.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Opening Day and Wednesday, he blew the save and lost. The other two blown saves, offense gave him wins. So it’s either one or the other, really.
"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."
Time for Mark Melancon to close games.
Mills has to stop being so nice to Lyon; that’s now 3 blown saves in 7 opportunities (.571 SV% doesn’t cut it) and he only has 1 clean outing of the 4 saves he does have. NEXT!
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
And a nice start by Aneury.
It sucks that all the attention has to go to Lyon when we got such a good start from him today.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
This was actually his fourth blown save
He’s blown 4 out of 8 saves, a straight 50%.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
A double-post?
I didn’t notice this earlier. My apologies.
Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!
Lyon/Lindstrom/Mills
For those of you saying that Lindstrom should have stayed and Lyon gone in the Barmes trade, you have to consider the money and talent level. Lyon is making 5.25 million, while Lindstrom is making 2.8 million. Lindstrom has proven he can miss bats, something Lyon struggles with at this stage in his career.
Why are people mad at Mills for this game? He sent out his closer to do his job. If Lyon had not performed badly, you wouldn’t be bemoaning Mills, now would you? Don’t confuse the decision with the result. How many other managers would have sent Lyon out there? The Astros don’t have the luxury of having Lyon put a man on and them immediately pulling him. No one does.
by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:06 PM CDT reply actions
It’s Mills decision on who takes the mound at any one time. Lyon has struggled in his previous outings having already blown three other games. It’s Mills job to recognize ineffectiveness, and clearly this season he’s had an issue with that aspect of being a manager. He shouldn’t take all the blame, but being the man at the top on the field does mean he has an accountability of his own.
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on May 4, 2011 6:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
“It’s Mills job to recognize ineffectiveness, and clearly this season he’s had an issue with that aspect of being a manager.” Explain how he’s clearly had an issue with this aspect? I didn’t know it was his fault that Lyon has blown 4 saves. It’s four, not fourteen… four. This is on Lyon, not Mills.
by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions
The managers job is to put players in a position to succeed, Lyon did not succeed today.
Follow my ramblings on Twitter .
by Timothy De Block on May 4, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions
I agree with the first and second halves of that statement, but together they make no sense. It is not Mills fault that Lyon had a bad outing. He handed him a 2-run lead in the bottom of the 9th. Were you calling for Lyon to be removed from the closer role yesterday or the day before? Just because a closer blows a save doesn’t mean his manager did something wrong. Don’t confuse the decision with the result.
by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions
I think Mills has done an OK job of giving Lyon enough rope to hang himself. At this point, even Lyon would have to agree with any move to pull him from the closer’s role, and admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.
Agree with AstroAndy. Almost all managers would have continued putting Lyon out there and hope he would succeed. (It also depends on whether the team has other closer-quality relief pitchers, which might speed up the substitution—-like with Matt Thornton.) However, this is also the point that almost all managers will decide to cut their losses and change closers. Like AstroAndy says, even Lyon would have to admit that he has a problem.
by clack on May 4, 2011 9:22 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Del Rosario v. Valdez
Why not move Lyon to Del Rosario’s low leverage role , send down DR, and call up Valdez? I like Valdez’s stuff much more than Del Rosario. Thoughts?
Honestly at this point DR might have more upside than Lyon and Valdez didn’t fair so well when he was called up. They may put Lyon on the DL (even if he’s not injured) and call up Valdez but DR has probably done better than both of them. OK I take that back Lyon has probably done better but gets more flack for being in the spotlight.
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 8:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m not sure, to tell you the truth. I like Valdez’s stuff, but he has some command problems. I like Del Rosario as the GIDP pitcher, the role that Sampson used to have…bring him in when you have to have a DP. Del Rosario also has some command problems, or at least some BABIP/luck issues with his groundballs. Valdez seems like a guy who could develop into a late inning reliever with more experience, whereas Del Rosario doesn’t. I guess the question is whether Valdez should work on his command in AAA or at the big league level.
by clack on May 4, 2011 9:30 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
That seems to be the million dollar question
Do we go Melancon of 2010 and throw him in the ML bullpen and see if he floats or do we let him continue to develope in the minors? I say wait until when/if we have an injury and then give him a shout.
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 9:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think his command issues in the majors doesn’t have anything to do with his command issues. I think a lot of it was nerves and ajustments to a tighter strikezone. A lot of pitchers struggle with that when they first come up. I’ve watched two outings in the minors and it really wasn’t bad. Sure, he had a few that got away from him at times, but thats to be expected for power pitchers. I say let him take his lumps in the majors and let him iron them out. He doesn’t need more development time.
I think that Del Rosario may be out of options, so we wouldn’t be able to just send him down. Can anyone verify that?
I think that’s true. That is the reason that the Reds lost Del Rosario to the Astros last year; the Reds tried to move him back down to AAA when he was out of options.
by clack on May 5, 2011 12:00 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Im a Mills fan, ergo I may be bias
First I’ll say I’ve been pissed off and bent out of shape against Lyon since opening day (also against the potent Reds). I do think however he did a pretty descent job for us last year in that role and one, two, or three blown saves should not banish him from the closers spot. On the other hand he has looked shaky since the start of ST and hasn’t looked like the same pitcher from last year. I think if a player is taken out of his role too early he hasn’t been given the opportunity to succeed, but if the player has failed too often then he’s missed his opportunity. I think Lyon missed his opportunity today.
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 8:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
Lyon needs to be put in only if we are up/down big.
He should have to earn the closer role if he wants it. He is getting payed too much money to be trotted out every other save chance to toss BP. I don’t like the guy but we are paying him so we should use him. Maybe he can figure something out before the break and get himself traded. ok that last part might be wishful thinking.
Texas. Gods favorite country.
An Astros fan on another board had this to say
I can’t deny..I laughed
“Im done with him and I wish they would leave him in Cincy. Take away his alarm clock give him a room to himself and head out at 4 AM. Tell him you forgot about him and will come back and get him….in a few years”
Haha.
Either that or try the Office Space method and just stop paying him, hoping he gets the message.
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Lyon does not miss bats.
Walk- single- single- single – walk – single… etc. If you can’t miss bats, hitters are going to get greedy knowing that they’re going to be able to hit your stuff.
He had 20 saves last year, but as I keep saying, he was lucky. He did not have 1-2-3 innings getting those saves and gave up lots of hits & walks.
I do not think Lyon would even suffice being a decent middle reliever.
A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...
Historically over his career Lyon has been a very good middle reliever and set up man (Lyon’s ERA+ in 2009 and 2010 was 160 and 125, and his career ERA+ is 112) . I think he has had some BABIP bad luck this year, which is something that all pitch-to-contact pitchers are susceptible to from time to time. But this pattern has continued long enough this season, and his K rate has deteriorated sufficiently (about one-third below his normal rate), that I also think that he has other problems, whether it be injury or mechanical.
by clack on May 5, 2011 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
There's a difference
between pitching to contact on your pitches and what Lyon was doing. His location was dreadful.
He was bascially throwin BP out there for the 12 games he’s pitched.
by Neil Leininger on May 5, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions
Wade the mistake
Keeping Lyon at a higher salary instead of going with Linstrom……his numbers for the Rockies….. .77ERA 11Ks in 11 innings 1.11 Whip not bad and 2 saves at 1/2 the salary…at this point Wade blew this one. Mills needs to go to closer by commitee at this point it can’t be any worse. Team has no faith in Lyon….and I will join the chorus “He Sucks”
"now you chunkin' in there.."
Yes this year Lindstrom has been better, last year Lindsrom struggled mightily with his control due to his back problems. Hindsight is 20/20. PS. Didn’t we trade Lindstrom for two relievers and Paulino (sniff sniff) for Barmes?
by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 10:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Have you seen Lindstrom pitch?
His delivery will consistently cause his back issues due to the torque he puts on it when he throws a pitch.
Not too mention that Lindstrom is a setup guy, as Street is the closer.
The question of whether he would be better than Lyon is really moot, because Ryan Franklin is better than Brandon Lyon.
by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions
Mark " I shoould be the F*****G closer but Mills is an idiot" Melancon was
being groomed by the NYY to be a future closer for them. I only can guess that the reason that Mills wont try him there is because of Lyon’s contract and experience. However, Id rather watch a young guy with good stuff struggle in the closer’s role than some guy who throws softer than old man in a horseshoe contest at the nursing home.
There are good reasons for slowly easing inexperienced relievers into the closer role. You can ruin them when they blow a few saves, lose their confidence, and become subject to fan ridicule. The Padres are one of the best teams at building bullpens, and they always followed a rule of letting inexperienced pitchers slowly move from low leverage work to high leverage closing over the course of 1 or 2 seasons. I’m not fond of Fulchino, but I could understand if he is chosen as the closer de jure based on experience.
by clack on May 5, 2011 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Padres fan here
The Padres were good at building bullpens because of Kevin Towers, not because of “grooming” relievers. To accentuate the point, the Padres have had great bullpens under both Bruce Bochy and Bud Black, from just about the time Towers took over the team until present — where the pen are all Towers remnants (except Qualls who coincidentally is the worst member of the pen).
The young guys were “groomed” because there were always a bunch of good arms in the pen to go along with them, whether it was/is Hoffman, Otsuka, Bell, Steve Reed, Jay Witasick, Chris Hammond, Mike Adams, etc. The Padres, though, aren’t shy to have a young pitcher pitch late in the ballgame so long as he’s clearly one of the best: see Cla Meredith, Luke Gregerson, and Jeremy Fikac.
Ultimately, you’ve got a 95 MPH fastball and a slider with movement, or you don’t. Pitching the 7th in a blowout or the 9th in a close game is only different insofar as the opposing team perhaps substituting out their typical starters for reserves. And really, if a pitcher needs to mow down substitutes in a meaningless inning in order to ‘build confidence’, then he’s probably not a guy you want pitching the 9th for you anyway; not that Brandon Lyon is either!
Here is an article with Towers’ rules for building a bullpen.
2. Don’t just drop somebody into the eighth inning. “The first time you get here you may get the fifth or sixth,” Towers says. “If you handle that you graduate to the seventh. And if you show you’ve got [guts] you’ll graduate to the eighth.”
by clack on May 5, 2011 8:14 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I like Fulchino's stuff (pitches) at times. Im just not sold on him
as the closer. He tends to have mental lapses at times. The young pitchers on this team and those that are on their way (An-Rod andLyles) cannot afford to have someone blow saves for them after they have pitched their butts off. That can destroy a young pitcher’s resolve and confidence. I think as Astros fans we have seen enough of this over the decades.
Lindstrom is gone
The person that gives the Astros the best chance to win needs to take the job. It is pretty obivious that Lyon cannot be the guy in the 9th. Fulchino is the best option right now and he will get an opportunity to close games if Lyon’s current trend continues. People need to stop crying about Matt Linstrum. He’s gone. End of story.
by astrosblogger on May 6, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
...unsavory???
“I’m trying to class the place up a bit now that we’ve gotten some of the more…unsavory types out of here”
…please explain David.
I was just messing with Stephen, since he’s gone off to bigger and better things than TCB.
I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson
by David Coleman on May 5, 2011 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions
I think it is safe to say.
You cannot pitch for contact as a closer. Your closer needs to be able to make bats miss. At least with the lineups we are asking them to face now. Maybe just maybe he is done, figured out, or maybe he is just not a closer. Love the stros and luckily I can watch the game till Lyon comes in.
Texas. Gods favorite country.
by CoolBreeze3 on May 5, 2011 5:45 AM CDT via mobile reply actions

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