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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

Ed Wade Needs More Relievers, Astros Lose

CINCINNATI, OH - MAY 04:  Aneury Rodriguez #62 of the Houston Astros throws a pitch during the game against the Cincinnati Reds at Great American Ball Park on May 4, 2011 in Cincinnati, Ohio.  (Photo by Andy Lyons/Getty Images)

What a way to reward our newest starting pitcher. Aneury Rodriguez only gave up one hit in his five innings of work, but Brandon Lyon struck again, giving up four hits and three runs while not recording an out in the ninth inning.

You'll hear all the right things from Brad Mills in the coming weeks, but with Wilton Lopez back from his injury and pitching an effective inning today, how long before he seriously considers the problem he has at closer? I'm not going to be foolish enough to expect Mark Melancon to be auditioned for the job, but if Lopez is healthy, he has to be considered at some point, right? 

The Astros aren't at the point where they'll just give up on Lyon, writing him off as a sunk cost, but they're getting damned close. He's at best the second-best reliever in that pen right now and at worst, he might not be able to pitch in the sixth inning. If and when Wilton Lopez is fully recovered, Mills has the previous confidence in him to give him a shot in the ninth. Maybe he doesn't, but all I know is something has to change. And soon.

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What a joke...

That 9th inning. Watching him pitch now makes me sick, even when he does somehow manage to get outs.

by entropic soul on May 4, 2011 3:14 PM CDT reply actions  

You can't be serious.

Brandon Lyon is a f’ing travesty. He needs to be gone yesterday.

by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 3:24 PM CDT reply actions  

Brandon Lyon

is the worst signing since Carlos Lee. I remember seeing him blow saves with Arizona, when i’d go on road trips to see the boys… He is grossly over-paid with nothing to show for it.

Teleport Or Go Blind! - What would you do if you were fragged by a wookie?

by MoosePanini on May 4, 2011 3:31 PM CDT reply actions  

This is complete BS...

1 rec and green?

Sign Carlos Silva!!!

by guayzimi on May 4, 2011 5:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

I rec'd it because I agreed with it

I’m just as frustrated with Lyon as anybody else, but it’s the manager that keeps sending him out there in these situations. Something is obviously wrong with the guy, I imagine it’s foremost in Lyon’s head as well when he goes out there that he’s probably going to blow another save, so why is he still sent out there in those situations? If he isn’t physically injured, he should be used when the game isn’t on the line to see if there is any chance at all he can get any confidence back. I don’t see what’s BS about removing him from the closer role and trying to salvage any value that he might still be able to have for the team.

by El Speverino on May 4, 2011 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

He was calling BS on the fact that here at TCB one rec will get a comment green, where as some where else it may take more than one rec before it turns green.

Follow my ramblings on Twitter .

by Timothy De Block on May 4, 2011 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh… well… yeah, that too.

by El Speverino on May 4, 2011 5:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

oh yeah...

Lyon is terrible. Anytime someone appeals to authority in a baseball argument, all you need to say is “Ed Wade” and “Brandon Lyon.”

Sign Carlos Silva!!!

by guayzimi on May 4, 2011 6:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lyon

Agree. He needs to be removed from the closer’s role effective immediately. Lopez, Melancon, Fulchino can serve as closer by committee until someone steps forward.

by jmike on May 4, 2011 7:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Should've traded this guy

instead of Lindstrom. At least he had good enough stuff to close out games.

by danielcp0303 on May 4, 2011 3:53 PM CDT reply actions  

I'm annoyed with Mills too

We had a 6 run lead last night….Lyon has struggled all season long but rather than put him in when we have a big lead, he waits to bring him in to blow another game. And he was obviously planning on either living or dying by Lyon as he had no one warming up in the pen when Lyon couldn’t get anyone out. Yes our choices we’re Enerio or Figgy but when Lyon comes in to the tune of BB, wild pitch, Single, Single….hmm maybe you should get someone up in the pen.

by Astrofan on May 4, 2011 4:46 PM CDT reply actions  

Mills hasn't been paying attention to the signs.

Usually when you smell gas, you want to leave the area as fast as possible. 4 saves, 4 blown saves. Play the better pitcher. After all, it’s JUST the 9th inning. Not like it’s anything special.

A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...

by BustaPozee on May 4, 2011 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

If I see Mills trot BPrandon Lyon out there in a save situation one more time, I’m just turning the game off. I fully expect Lyon to give up a bunch of hits and blow the game. Im not watching his shit anymore.

by Astrofan on May 4, 2011 4:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’m singlehandedly trying to make the #dammitlyon hashtag trend on Twitter.

"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."

by Elephande on May 5, 2011 2:16 AM CDT up reply actions  

Great title!

Lyon has to be done as the closer…right? I think Melancon has to prove that he can handle the high stress situations and keep his composure before he gets his shot. Lopez is the closer as soon as we know he’s healthy and Fulchino (keep your remarks to yourself) can be a good set up man. I’m thinking those 3 can alternate the 8th and 9th inning and ease the work load. Del Rosario has really impressed me but he’s inconsistant. I keep him as a 7th inning guy this year and maybe see him in the later innings next year.

Side note: An Rod did a FANTASTIC job today. I am really happy with the results even if he missed his spots a lot today.

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 4:46 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

Lindstrom currently has a 0.77 ERA.

Hasn’t given up much hits with a .225 batting average against.

A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...

by BustaPozee on May 4, 2011 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Still some value.....

…but not as a full-time closer. Not sharp enough control and not enough swings-and-misses…..Sill can handle the 8th, though.

I also don’t see Lopez as a potential closer; also not enough Ks, plus they may need to ration his workload after the sore arm…..Think Melancon should get first shot; then Fulchino (long shot, but he’s earned at least a chance); and then Valdez, who probably has the best stuff and might catch lightning in a bottle in a clearly-defined role (i.e, just get these three guys out).

It’s not like a couple (more) blown saves is going to cost us a playoff spot or anything; let’s give the kids a shot and see if one of them can seize the job….

For those who preferred Lindstrom over Lyon: I agree, but Lindstrom was tradeable and Lyon was not, due to their contracts. However, Lindstrom is also spectacularly inconsistent, so we might have been having this same conversation anyway…..
.

by jkaflagg on May 4, 2011 5:11 PM CDT reply actions  

You say Lopez doesn't have enough Ks

then you bring up two people with worse SO/9 innings rate than the guy you summarily discharged.

Fulchino and Melancon also have higher BB/9 rates than Lopez, you hardly walks anyone.

by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 5:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Time for Mark Melancon to close games.

Mills has to stop being so nice to Lyon; that’s now 3 blown saves in 7 opportunities (.571 SV% doesn’t cut it) and he only has 1 clean outing of the 4 saves he does have. NEXT!

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 4, 2011 5:50 PM CDT reply actions  

.571 is being generous, he’s 4 for 8 in saves.

"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."

by Elephande on May 5, 2011 2:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oops.

Guess I was being generous, I left out Wednesday’s massacre.

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 5, 2011 3:45 AM CDT up reply actions  

Opening Day and Wednesday, he blew the save and lost. The other two blown saves, offense gave him wins. So it’s either one or the other, really.

"He walked 18."
"New league record!"
"Struck out 18."
"Another new league record! In addition he hit the sportswriter, the public address announcer, the bull mascot twice...also new league records! But, Joe, this guy's got some serious shit."

by Elephande on May 7, 2011 8:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

Time for Mark Melancon to close games.

Mills has to stop being so nice to Lyon; that’s now 3 blown saves in 7 opportunities (.571 SV% doesn’t cut it) and he only has 1 clean outing of the 4 saves he does have. NEXT!

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 4, 2011 5:51 PM CDT reply actions  

And a nice start by Aneury.

It sucks that all the attention has to go to Lyon when we got such a good start from him today.

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 4, 2011 5:54 PM CDT up reply actions  

This was actually his fourth blown save

He’s blown 4 out of 8 saves, a straight 50%.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on May 4, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

A double-post?

I didn’t notice this earlier. My apologies.

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 5, 2011 3:46 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lyon/Lindstrom/Mills

For those of you saying that Lindstrom should have stayed and Lyon gone in the Barmes trade, you have to consider the money and talent level. Lyon is making 5.25 million, while Lindstrom is making 2.8 million. Lindstrom has proven he can miss bats, something Lyon struggles with at this stage in his career.

Why are people mad at Mills for this game? He sent out his closer to do his job. If Lyon had not performed badly, you wouldn’t be bemoaning Mills, now would you? Don’t confuse the decision with the result. How many other managers would have sent Lyon out there? The Astros don’t have the luxury of having Lyon put a man on and them immediately pulling him. No one does.

by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:06 PM CDT reply actions  

“It’s Mills job to recognize ineffectiveness, and clearly this season he’s had an issue with that aspect of being a manager.” Explain how he’s clearly had an issue with this aspect? I didn’t know it was his fault that Lyon has blown 4 saves. It’s four, not fourteen… four. This is on Lyon, not Mills.

by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The managers job is to put players in a position to succeed, Lyon did not succeed today.

Follow my ramblings on Twitter .

by Timothy De Block on May 4, 2011 6:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I agree with the first and second halves of that statement, but together they make no sense. It is not Mills fault that Lyon had a bad outing. He handed him a 2-run lead in the bottom of the 9th. Were you calling for Lyon to be removed from the closer role yesterday or the day before? Just because a closer blows a save doesn’t mean his manager did something wrong. Don’t confuse the decision with the result.

by TheAndrewMartinez on May 4, 2011 6:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mills should have pulled Lyon after he started off walk-hit-hit.

by jmike on May 4, 2011 7:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think Mills has done an OK job of giving Lyon enough rope to hang himself. At this point, even Lyon would have to agree with any move to pull him from the closer’s role, and admitting you have a problem is the first step in recovery.

by AstroAndy on May 4, 2011 9:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Del Rosario v. Valdez

Why not move Lyon to Del Rosario’s low leverage role , send down DR, and call up Valdez? I like Valdez’s stuff much more than Del Rosario. Thoughts?

by jmike on May 4, 2011 8:01 PM CDT reply actions  

Honestly at this point DR might have more upside than Lyon and Valdez didn’t fair so well when he was called up. They may put Lyon on the DL (even if he’s not injured) and call up Valdez but DR has probably done better than both of them. OK I take that back Lyon has probably done better but gets more flack for being in the spotlight.

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 8:16 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

That seems to be the million dollar question

Do we go Melancon of 2010 and throw him in the ML bullpen and see if he floats or do we let him continue to develope in the minors? I say wait until when/if we have an injury and then give him a shout.

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 9:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think his command issues in the majors doesn’t have anything to do with his command issues. I think a lot of it was nerves and ajustments to a tighter strikezone. A lot of pitchers struggle with that when they first come up. I’ve watched two outings in the minors and it really wasn’t bad. Sure, he had a few that got away from him at times, but thats to be expected for power pitchers. I say let him take his lumps in the majors and let him iron them out. He doesn’t need more development time.

by Subber10 on May 5, 2011 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think that Del Rosario may be out of options, so we wouldn’t be able to just send him down. Can anyone verify that?

by MadMartygan on May 4, 2011 9:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

And that complicates how to get Valdez back up without injuries. Abad is the lefty, Chino hasn’t pitched himself out, Lopez definitely hasn’t and Figgy is the long reliever.

by Subber10 on May 5, 2011 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions  

Im a Mills fan, ergo I may be bias

First I’ll say I’ve been pissed off and bent out of shape against Lyon since opening day (also against the potent Reds). I do think however he did a pretty descent job for us last year in that role and one, two, or three blown saves should not banish him from the closers spot. On the other hand he has looked shaky since the start of ST and hasn’t looked like the same pitcher from last year. I think if a player is taken out of his role too early he hasn’t been given the opportunity to succeed, but if the player has failed too often then he’s missed his opportunity. I think Lyon missed his opportunity today.

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 8:11 PM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I agree.

He was 20/22 (90.9%) last year. Something’s not right with him, and he needs to be taken out of the closer role to straighten it out.

Super Bowl XLV Champions, the Green Bay Packers!

by mike_o on May 4, 2011 9:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lyon needs to be put in only if we are up/down big.

He should have to earn the closer role if he wants it. He is getting payed too much money to be trotted out every other save chance to toss BP. I don’t like the guy but we are paying him so we should use him. Maybe he can figure something out before the break and get himself traded. ok that last part might be wishful thinking.

Texas. Gods favorite country.

by CoolBreeze3 on May 4, 2011 9:15 PM CDT reply actions  

An Astros fan on another board had this to say

I can’t deny..I laughed

“Im done with him and I wish they would leave him in Cincy. Take away his alarm clock give him a room to himself and head out at 4 AM. Tell him you forgot about him and will come back and get him….in a few years”

by Astrofan on May 4, 2011 9:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Haha.

Either that or try the Office Space method and just stop paying him, hoping he gets the message.

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 9:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Make him sit in the manual scoreboard during games at MMP. Then take away his glove. Just hope that he doesn’t set MMP on fire.

by Astrofan on May 4, 2011 10:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

LOL!!!!!

"now you chunkin' in there.."

by jano4 on May 4, 2011 10:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Lyon does not miss bats.

Walk- single- single- single – walk – single… etc. If you can’t miss bats, hitters are going to get greedy knowing that they’re going to be able to hit your stuff.

He had 20 saves last year, but as I keep saying, he was lucky. He did not have 1-2-3 innings getting those saves and gave up lots of hits & walks.

I do not think Lyon would even suffice being a decent middle reliever.

A rose with no fragrance is like a baseball player with no average. *cough* Joe Inglett...

by BustaPozee on May 4, 2011 9:55 PM CDT reply actions  

There's a difference

between pitching to contact on your pitches and what Lyon was doing. His location was dreadful.

He was bascially throwin BP out there for the 12 games he’s pitched.

by Neil Leininger on May 5, 2011 9:50 AM CDT up reply actions  

Wade the mistake

Keeping Lyon at a higher salary instead of going with Linstrom……his numbers for the Rockies….. .77ERA 11Ks in 11 innings 1.11 Whip not bad and 2 saves at 1/2 the salary…at this point Wade blew this one. Mills needs to go to closer by commitee at this point it can’t be any worse. Team has no faith in Lyon….and I will join the chorus “He Sucks”

"now you chunkin' in there.."

by jano4 on May 4, 2011 10:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Yes this year Lindstrom has been better, last year Lindsrom struggled mightily with his control due to his back problems. Hindsight is 20/20. PS. Didn’t we trade Lindstrom for two relievers and Paulino (sniff sniff) for Barmes?

by Its Gonna Happen on May 4, 2011 10:22 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Have you seen Lindstrom pitch?

His delivery will consistently cause his back issues due to the torque he puts on it when he throws a pitch.

Not too mention that Lindstrom is a setup guy, as Street is the closer.

The question of whether he would be better than Lyon is really moot, because Ryan Franklin is better than Brandon Lyon.

by Neil Leininger on May 4, 2011 10:43 PM CDT up reply actions  

Mark " I shoould be the F*****G closer but Mills is an idiot" Melancon was

being groomed by the NYY to be a future closer for them. I only can guess that the reason that Mills wont try him there is because of Lyon’s contract and experience. However, Id rather watch a young guy with good stuff struggle in the closer’s role than some guy who throws softer than old man in a horseshoe contest at the nursing home.

by StrosSouth on May 5, 2011 12:01 AM CDT reply actions  

Padres fan here

The Padres were good at building bullpens because of Kevin Towers, not because of “grooming” relievers. To accentuate the point, the Padres have had great bullpens under both Bruce Bochy and Bud Black, from just about the time Towers took over the team until present — where the pen are all Towers remnants (except Qualls who coincidentally is the worst member of the pen).

The young guys were “groomed” because there were always a bunch of good arms in the pen to go along with them, whether it was/is Hoffman, Otsuka, Bell, Steve Reed, Jay Witasick, Chris Hammond, Mike Adams, etc. The Padres, though, aren’t shy to have a young pitcher pitch late in the ballgame so long as he’s clearly one of the best: see Cla Meredith, Luke Gregerson, and Jeremy Fikac.

Ultimately, you’ve got a 95 MPH fastball and a slider with movement, or you don’t. Pitching the 7th in a blowout or the 9th in a close game is only different insofar as the opposing team perhaps substituting out their typical starters for reserves. And really, if a pitcher needs to mow down substitutes in a meaningless inning in order to ‘build confidence’, then he’s probably not a guy you want pitching the 9th for you anyway; not that Brandon Lyon is either!

by Marver on May 5, 2011 2:32 AM CDT up reply actions  

I like Fulchino's stuff (pitches) at times. Im just not sold on him

as the closer. He tends to have mental lapses at times. The young pitchers on this team and those that are on their way (An-Rod andLyles) cannot afford to have someone blow saves for them after they have pitched their butts off. That can destroy a young pitcher’s resolve and confidence. I think as Astros fans we have seen enough of this over the decades.

by StrosSouth on May 5, 2011 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions  

Lindstrom is gone

The person that gives the Astros the best chance to win needs to take the job. It is pretty obivious that Lyon cannot be the guy in the 9th. Fulchino is the best option right now and he will get an opportunity to close games if Lyon’s current trend continues. People need to stop crying about Matt Linstrum. He’s gone. End of story.

by astrosblogger on May 6, 2011 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions  

...unsavory???

“I’m trying to class the place up a bit now that we’ve gotten some of the more…unsavory types out of here”

…please explain David.

by backstop8 on May 5, 2011 12:33 AM CDT reply actions  

I was just messing with Stephen, since he’s gone off to bigger and better things than TCB.

I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson

by David Coleman on May 5, 2011 1:03 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it is safe to say.

You cannot pitch for contact as a closer. Your closer needs to be able to make bats miss. At least with the lineups we are asking them to face now. Maybe just maybe he is done, figured out, or maybe he is just not a closer. Love the stros and luckily I can watch the game till Lyon comes in.

Texas. Gods favorite country.

by CoolBreeze3 on May 5, 2011 5:45 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

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