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Astros Player's and Trade Value

 

With the Astros hovering around 10 games back in the NL Central there has already been quite a bit of talk about the Astros being active sellers at the trade deadline. Therefore I have decided to attempt to use Sky Kalkman's Trade Value Calculator to try to determine how much the Astros could get in return if they chose to move some of their veterans for prospects. All salary information used here came courtesy of Cot's Contracts, and all WAR totals used came courtesy of FanGraphs. The Astros players that I chose to discuss here are Michael Bourn, Hunter Pence, Brett Myers, Wandy Rodriguez, and Clint Barmes since they would have the most trade value. Jeff Keppinger could have probably been included on this list, but since he is just coming back from an injury I decided to leave him off the list for now.

Star-divide

 

Michael Bourn

 

Bourn has one more year of team control remaining after this year, so his 2012 salary had to be estimated. I chose to use similar WAR numbers to 2009 and 2010 for Michael Bourn since his production to start this season has been on par with those seasons, and he’s not projected to decline before he becomes a free agent. That puts his WAR totals at 4.8 and 4.9. As a rule of thumb Kalkman stated that a player usually makes 80% of there free agent value in their third year of arbitration, but 80% of a 4.9 WAR player would put his salary at 18 million, which is way to high considering Bourn is making 4.4 million this year. Therefore the salary I chose to use for 2012 was 9 million, which is slightly more than double this year’s salary. I also figured that if Bourn was traded then it wouldn’t be until closer to the deadline, therefore the salary that I used in the calculations for this year was 2.2 million, half of Bourn’s 4.4 million total salary.

 

Using these figures, Michael Bourn would cost approximately 11.2 million for the next season and a half, and his production over that time period would be valued at 32.85 million. That would give him a 21.65 surplus trade value over that time frame.

 

Hunter Pence

 

Hunter Pence has two more years of team control remaining after this season, so his 2012 and 2013 salary had to be estimated. There was also a lot more fluctuation in Hunter’s previous season’s WAR values, as his lowest total was 3.3, and his highest total was 4.1. Since Hunter is easily our best player and would require the most in return for a trade, I decided to be optimistic on Pence’s WAR values, and use his 2011 pace for the next three seasons. Pence has currently produced a WAR of 1.6 in 51 games, and if he kept that pace all season he would produce a WAR of 4.9. His salary over that time frame was even harder to estimate, but I estimated that he would make about 12 million in 2012, and 16 million in 2013 if he kept performing at the level he is this season.

 

By these calculations Pence would cost approximately 31.5 million over the next two and a half seasons, and his production over that time period would be valued at 55.35 million. That would give him a 23.85 surplus trade value.

 

Brett Myers

 

Myers was a little easier to calculate since his salary is known for the length of his contract. His WAR over that time frame however was harder to predict. I figured that given Brett’s peripherals last year, he is probably not a 4 WAR pitcher every year, and instead used an average of 2.8 WAR for all three seasons. I included his option year in 2013 in the calculation since it can become guaranteed based on performance in 2012.

 

Brett Myers would cost 24.5 million over the next two and a half seasons, and his production over that time period would be valued at 31.5 million. That would give him a 7 million surplus trade value.

 

Wandy Rodriguez

 

Like Myers, Wandy also has a known salary, and over the last two seasons his WAR has been close to 4. I chose to use an average WAR of 4 for the length of Wandy’s contract. I also included his option year since the option becomes a player’s option if he is traded.

 

Wandy would cost 39.5 million over the next three and a half seasons, and his production over that time period would be valued at 63 million. That would give him a 23.5 million surplus trade value.

 

Clint Barmes

 

Barmes will earn 3.925 million this season. Since any trade would probably happen midseason I used half of Barmes 2011 salary (2 million). So far in 24 games Barmes has accumulated a WAR of 0.7, which is largely based on his defense. If he were to keep up that pace his WAR for the season would be approximately 3.94. However I doubt he would get that high since his WAR has never been over 2.0 in his career. I still decided to go optimistic with Barmes and use a WAR of 3 for his season value, using 1.5 here since he would be traded midseason.

 

Barmes would cost 2 million over the next half season, and his production over that time period would be valued at 6.75 million. That would give him a 4.75 million surplus trade value.

 

Recap

Player

Cost (M)

Estimated Value (M)

Surplus Value (M)

Michael Bourn

11.2

32.85

21.65

Hunter Pence

31.5

55.35

23.85

Brett Myers

24.5

31.5

7

Wandy Rodriguez

39.5

63

23.5

Clint Barmes

2

6.75

4.75

 

Looking at it this way, Hunter Pence, Wandy Rodriguez, and Michael Bourn hold the most trade value to the Astros. So what kind of package could these players bring in a potential trade?

Using Victor Wang's research the chart below lists an approximate value for prospects based on there rankings.

 

Top 10 hitting prospects

$36.5M

Top 11-25 hitters

$25.1

Top 26-50 hitters

$23.4

Top 51-75 hitters

$14.2

Top 76-100 hitters

$12.5

Top 10 pitching prospects

$15.2

Top 11-25 pitchers

$15.9

Top 26-50 pitchers

$15.9

Top 51-75 pitchers

$12.1

Top 76-100 pitchers

$9.8

Grade B pitchers (as graded by Sickels)

$7.3

Grade B hitters

$5.5

Grade C pitchers 22 or younger

$2.1

Grade C pitchers 23 or older

$1.5

Grade C hitters 22 or younger

$0.7

Grade C hitters 23 or older

$0.5

 

This is the link to find Baseball America's top 100 prospects for the 2011 season.

 

What could a potential trade of these players yield for the Astros:

 

1.)    Michael Bourn

a.       Borderline 1 top 26-50 hitting prospect

b.      1 top 11-25 pitching prospect, and a grade B hitter or pitcher

c.       1 top 51-75 hitter, and a grade B hitter or pitcher

 

2.)    Hunter Pence

a.       Borderline 1 top 11-25 hitting prospect

b.      1 top 11-25 pitching prospect, and a grade B and C hitter or pitcher

c.       1 top 51-75 hitter, and a grade B hitter or pitcher

 

3.)    Brett Myers

a.       1 grade B pitcher or hitter

 

4.)    Wandy Rodriguez

a.       1 top 26-50 hitting prospect

b.      1 top 11-25 pitching prospect, Grade B hitter or pitcher

c.       1 top 51-75 hitter, and a grade B hitter or pitcher

 

5.)    Clint Barmes

a.       Borderline grade B pitcher

b.      2 grade C pitcher or hitters

 

The team that Hunter Pence has been linked to recently has been the Phillies. In a potential trade with the Phillies, Domonic Brown’s name has been mentioned frequently as someone the Astros should ask for in return for Pence. However, according to the chart above Brown and Pence’s value aren’t comparable. A more comparable trade using the above guidelines in a trade with the Phillies would probably have to center around one of the Phillies top pitching prospects. Ed Wade does have the advantage of demanding top value for Hunter in any trade since the Astros are in no hurry to trade Hunter, but may have a hard time receiving a package of players that would force Wade’s hand to trade away the potential franchise player in a time when new ownership is about to take over.

 

Looking at it this way, trading away most of the veteran pieces of our team right now, which is a popular sentiment given the current state of affairs, would not net as much in return as what has been mentioned. Being Astros fans, maybe we think some of our players carry more value than what others perceive them to carry because we watch them on a daily basis, and become more emotionally attached to certain players. What do you think the Astros could get in return for trading any of these players? Was I close on estimating any of these guys value?



Comment 55 comments  |  3 recs  | 

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Nice work. I think you may have overestimated Wandy’s value in that I would probably lower the third year WAR value. Otherwise, I think the WAR assumptions seem fine.

I think, as Astros’ fans, we probably have a tendency to over-value some of our players’ trade value. As I mentioned in the Pence trade thread, I think we may be overstating the potential trade return for Pence. I came to that view in part based of the reactions of Baseball Think Factory commenters to a Pence trade article. The BBTF crowd tends to be saber oriented, but it represents a knowledgeable group whom are not biased as Astros’ fans. Pence is a good player, but he is not an elite player.

by clack on May 29, 2011 8:46 AM CDT reply actions  

Yeah Wandy is probably a little to optimistic. I wasn’t for sure on how to predict how he would age, since he was a late blooming lefty. I also starting working on this before Wandy went down with an injury, so I just left everything the way it was.

I just remembered when the Pence to Phillie talk broke that most were wanting Brown, Cosart, and Colvin, but that doesn’t look like a realistic haul. I guess it doesn’t hurt to hope.

Trying to guess Myers WAR was tricky also because he looks like he may fluctuate quite a bit from one year to the next.

If Barmes started hitting he would be a very productive player this year. Like Bourn his defense really rates him high.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 12:49 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I’m not sure whether players whose value is mostly defense get a high return at the mid-season trade deadline. I just don’t recall any contending teams targeting defensive players at the trade deadline. I could be wrong, but that’s off the top of my head. I think defense-first players may have more value in off-season trades.

by clack on May 29, 2011 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions  

That is true

A Barmes trade probably wouldn’t net what I listed him at. That’s also why I don’t think trading Michael Bourn would be a good idea. While he seems to have a similar trade value as Pence there’s no way the Astros could get as much for Bourn as they could Pence.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 2:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

also, bourn’s value to us is probably aided by our spacious dimensions in CF…

by isaacjunk on May 31, 2011 5:38 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely true. Bourn probably means more to the Astros than what he could bring in return.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 7:45 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Very true on Pence

I like him alot, and what he represents (hard nosed player who plays the game the right) but he is a good but not elite player. Alot of people have been talking about receiving an elite package in return for him, and that probably wont happen. Although it might take an elite package for Wade to move him.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 12:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I disagree

I think Pence is very close to an elite player right now. He has little to no protection and still has great stats and the most important thing is he has become the go to guy for RBI’s. On the Phillies lineup he would do all kinds of damage.

His defense is elite, for a RF. and he is always in the top tier of outfield assists and he gives his all on any play.

And most importantly, Pence is a sure thing. Brown is not. Mostly he’s projection, seeing as he hasn’t done much at the Major League level yet. Brown is lucky if he has a similar career to Pence’s so far. He might be better, but that’s a chance the Phil’s would have to take if they want Pence – and possibly, another WS ring.

Basically, what Im saying is no more “meh” packages for our best players. We give up a star, we get a star (or Superstar) in return. Otherwise, dont trade Pence.

by YohannDookeyblue on May 30, 2011 10:00 AM CDT up reply actions  

I agree that it will probably take a superstar package for Wade to trade Pence, but that’s probably not what Pence is worth. My guess would be that when the trade deadline passes Pence will still be an Astro, and I will be okay with that.

by conroestro on May 30, 2011 11:16 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

But like you said, Wade is technically not in a hurry to trade Pence so we can demand.

Brown is a dream to get but I know it’s slim to no chance we get him. Maybe it can come down to a great 3 team trade if a deal is made. I really hope some big trades are made. We need the prospects

by astrosfan1989 on May 29, 2011 3:19 PM CDT reply actions  

If Pence gets moved hopefully it will be for overvalue.

We would have to catch the right team at the right time. The Phillies right now is the best fit. The Braves could be a fit if Heywards injury woes continue. One thing Pence has been is dependable.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 3:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Myers

Is going to have to go on a tear between now and the trade deadline to carry any kind of significant trade value.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 4:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

If a trade doesn’t workout Myers could at least be an innings eater on a relatively young stuff once you throw in Aneury and Lyles in there. Inning eaters are still important on young staffs and young bullpens.

by conroestro on May 29, 2011 5:33 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think its okay to be optimistic

In regards to Pence, but at some point we may have to quit waiting for him to turn that corner and become an elite player, and just accept him for what he is, which is a pretty good but not great player. His offense has been pretty consistent these last few years that his value may fluctuate a little year to year, but will probably not skyrocket.

I guess there is a chance he could hit a hot streak from now until the all star break and raise his value some, but my guess is at the end of the year his numbers will be similar to his career line.

by conroestro on May 30, 2011 12:00 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

One thing that I forgot to mention about a Pence trade is

That if Phillie Southwest decided to trade Pence to Phillie Northwest then the Astros could demand a Phillie tax. Since philly was widely viewed as coming out ahead on the Roy Oswalt trade in terms of talent they gave up, and the amount of money the Astros sent over to cover the remainder of his contract, they could possibly demand more from Philly than they could from any other team.

by conroestro on May 30, 2011 12:18 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

good luck with that.

by clack on May 30, 2011 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

Definitely

Maybe trades like Bill Hall and Clint Barmes could net bullpen help. Those are two guys that could likely be moved.

I would somewhat be against trading Barmes now since the Astros have already called up Lyles it would be nice to have the best defense out there to help him gain confidence. But Manzella would still be an average or above average defense option at short If Barmes was moved.

by conroestro on May 30, 2011 1:32 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Manzella

I think Manzella could probably play pretty decent defense at shortstop. That would be a telling time for Manzella if Barmes was traded and they gave him a shot. With no one else knocking on the door in the minors the Astros will have to make a decision about shortstop this offseason. Do they go big in free agency, or try to find placeholders until the younger guys are ready. If Barmes is traded Manzella may only have a limited time to impress before he is forgot about in the Astros system.

by conroestro on May 30, 2011 6:55 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Jose Reyes'

Name gets mentioned a little bit when people talk about signing a potential free agent next offseason to play short.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 12:24 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I think your estimates are fairly accurate, but I would imagine the actual trades that end up going through have large variances between WAR and surplus value based on individual organizations’ current status and needs. That said, these are the trades I’d like to see made at the deadline:

Hunter Pence, Jimmy Paredes, and $3.5M to Philadelphia for Jonathan Singleton, Brody Colvin and Jarred Cosart. JD Martinez gets called up to replace Pence. Paredes is not needed as much with the emergence of Wikoff, Altuve, and Thompson. This trade adds two potential top of the rotation starters and a potential top of the order hitter.

Wandy Rodriguez to the Yankees for Dellin Betances and Austin Romine. Lyles replaces Wandy. This trade adds a potential top of the rotation starter and a very good catching prospect, which would allow movement of Heath/Wallace to a hitting position (OF/1B).

Michael Bourn to the Nationals for Derek Norris and Danny Espinosa. Jason Bourgeois replaces Bourn. Norris could be moved to 1B/OF if he gets blocked at catcher. Espinosa is a potential long term answer at SS/2B.

I don’t see Myers rebounding enough to make trading him worthwhile, especially since with how young the rotation will be after trading wandy, a veteran innings eater will be very valuable to HOuston.

by Snake Diggity on May 31, 2011 10:58 AM CDT reply actions  

couple of problems i see with this.

First-singleton has done nothing this year to make me want him in that trade. Not sure who u replace him with.

2nd-the nationals are pretty much rebuilding too. They deff don’t make that trade

Firesale! Everyone must go!

by astrosfan1989 on May 31, 2011 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions  

I would love to see both of this pitching prospects traded for from the Phillies, but also don’t really see the need for Singleton. Telvin Nash may not be as highly regarded, but may be a similar hitter to Singleton as far as power goes. I know he’s old for his level but still doesn’t need to be passed up by someone else.

Don’t know much about the Nationals system, but I like Banuelos from the Yankees. Him and Betances are both good, but Banuelos coming from the left side would be my pick if they traded off Wandy. He has a small frame so not for sure if injury concerns would be there, similar to Carlos Hernandez for the Astros a couple of years ago. Doubt the Yankees would give him up though.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 1:47 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Myers usually dominates the Cubs, so maybe he will no hit them tomorrow and raise his value. As far as him and Wandy goes, I agree that probably only one or the other if any gets dealt. Wandy would probably bring more in return, and you could always use Myers as an innings eater for next year. If someone like Keuchel proves to be ready at the deadline next year then maybe Myers would become expendable.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 1:57 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

I wouldn’t call him too old for his level. He’s only 20.Not exactly blazing through, but not falling too far behind. Singleton is about 7 months younger in A+, and he’s not really killing it.

by MadMartygan on May 31, 2011 2:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

Gotcha. I didn’t realize Nash was still that young. Singleton would be unnecessary.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 2:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Gotcha. I didn’t realize Nash was still that young. Singleton would be unnecessary.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 2:52 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Jarred Cosart

has injury concerns with a violent delivery. Probably won’t have a long career. Colvin probably would be a #3/ We have A LOT of #3-#5 pitchers.

I wouldn’t do that trade if I were the Stros. The Phillies are the ones (for once) who should get screwed on this deal.

by YohannDookeyblue on May 31, 2011 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have to think that the injury concerns about Wandy (given the fluid on his elbow causing his current DL) would make a GM have second thoughts about giving up a high return. At least that’s the way I would view it if I were a GM. With respect to possible trades of Wandy and Myers, the Astros seem to be unlucky right now, with Myers struggling performance-wise and Wandy showing signs of future injury.

by clack on May 31, 2011 3:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

I have to think that the injury concerns about Wandy (given the fluid on his elbow causing his current DL) would make a GM have second thoughts about giving up a high return. At least that’s the way I would view it if I were a GM. With respect to possible trades of Wandy and Myers, the Astros seem to be unlucky right now, with Myers struggling performance-wise and Wandy showing signs of future injury.

by clack on May 31, 2011 3:30 PM CDT up reply actions  

I’ve had a hard time finding anything on Wandy to see how much time he is expected tomiss with his injury

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 5:34 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Wandy has almost 3 years left on his contract. I’m not saying that Wandy won’t return in a couple of weeks; but my point is that the recent elbow issue creates more uncertainty as to whether he will make it though the contract without more injury.

by clack on May 31, 2011 6:34 PM CDT up reply actions  

I understand, and didn’t think about that. That option year automatically kicking in if he is traded may cause more reason for concern. I haven’t seen him linked to the Red Sox or Yankees, but it seems like a team with higher payroll and the ability to absorb a year if he was lost to injury may be there best chance at trading him. At least he has been somewhat durable the last few years.

by conroestro on May 31, 2011 7:53 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Lyles solid debut crowds the Rotation

I realize its just one start, and he definitely got lucky earlier in the game, but you can’t argue with the final result. If he has another outing like this one against San Diego though then they may have a difficult decision to make when Wandy returns from the DL. Aneury’s the rule 5 and not going anywhere. Plus he deserves to be in the rotation. He has a changeup that looks nasty but he rarely throws it. Happ and Bud aren’t going anywhere, and Wandy has been solid. Plus Brett will be given every opportunity to right the ship.

Do you think that if Lyles has another successful outing that Wade may be less reluctant to trade Wandy or Brett.

by conroestro on Jun 1, 2011 8:25 AM CDT via mobile reply actions  

I don't think he's up permanently.

I guess if a pitcher gets traded, it is possible, but I hope not.

by auclairkeithbc on Jun 1, 2011 9:41 AM CDT up reply actions  

lets wait till we see the 2md and 3rd start before we get too locked in to him staying

im still fine with him going to OKC and tuning up some things

Firesale! Everyone must go!

by astrosfan1989 on Jun 1, 2011 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

I like Pence.

I like Pence A LOT.

With that being said, I’d think I’d trade Pence for a Grade(A) young pitcher, throw in a Grade (B) pitcher and Grade (B) hitter too.

Pence is playing well right now. If the Stros could get 3 quality young prospects, (At least 2 of them being pitching), then I’d strongly consider it if the prospects were right.

by PeteyNhtown on Jun 6, 2011 7:51 AM CDT reply actions  

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