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Thoughts on Jordan Lyles and The Prospect Handbook

No mention of T.J. in this article, as he sits silently somewhere in Florida and weeps...

Before we dive into the Baseball America Prospect Handbook (briefly...I don't want to reveal too much and rob them of more customers), I wanted to look at Jordan Lyles' outing Wednesday. I don't have Pitch F/X data on him, but I did track his velocities on his pitches. 

For one thing, Lyles didn't look like he was working a game plan for each hitter as much as working on specific pitches at specific times. He only threw one breaking ball (a slider) in the first inning before switching to mostly breaking stuff in the second half of his appearance.

He mainly threw his fastball around 88-89 MPH, but did touch 93 and even 95 on one pitch I saw. When he gained velocity, the pitch wasn't as accurate, so he may lay off a bit on his velocity to get that pinpoint control. I couldn't tell much about the slider or the change, but it did look like the slider was around 80 MPH and the change about 70-75 MPH. That's still a pretty big spread and means Lyles may change speeds well enough to get strikeouts even without blazing speed on his fastball.

I was worried about the lack of strikeouts in Lyles' innings this spring. But, if this held for his other starts and Lyles isn't so much sequencing his pitches as working on specific ones at a time, then his numbers don't mean much. The other side of that coin is much less savory. What if Lyles is a two-pitch pitcher who only rarely uses his slider? I'm sure we would have heard about that by now, which is why I'm going to ignore his spring totals even more than I do normal spring numbers.

Onto my thoughts on the BA 2011 Handbook...

Star-divide

Martinez hit his home run off Young on the first pitch he saw. It was a fastball around 78-81 MPH (whether you're going off the TV or the scoreboard in left field) that was right down the pipe. Young gets a lot of downward plane with his fastball, but that was just piped. He threw a similar pitch to Carlos Lee, who flied out to left. So, it was impressively hit, traveling out in a hurry but also having some nice loft, but it wasn't a pitch he's likely to see too often in the majors.

 Looking at the Top 30 list from last season, the Astros had 12 prospects drop off. One (Polin Trinidad) moved to the Cubs and another (Evan Englebrook) became a free agent. The Astros also had five players lose rookie status through major league playing time, meaning over 50 percent of the 2010 list turned over. The fact that the Astros team rating still went up to 26 speaks highly of the talent Bobby Heck and Co. are bringing into the system.

Speaking of Heck and Co., one of the nice things about BA's Handbook is it lists the scout who signed all the different prospects. It's a little thing, but seeing how many of the top guys were signed by a couple of scouts in Lincoln Martin and Troy Hoerner is informative. For one, it leads more credence to any rumors linking the Astros to prospects in the Illinois/Wisconsin region and the Southeast.

Another interesting tidbit from those scouting signings comes from Bobby Heck getting partial credit for signing Vincent Velasquez. Whether that's significant or not remains to be seen, but it does show that the Astros were very intent on signing the two-way star. We know the Astros drafted him earlier than expected because they were afraid they couldn't get him in the third round. If they were that aggressive, it only stands to reason that Heck himself would try hard to get Velasquez signed.

We haven't heard much about the instructional league, but there were a few interesting notes in the player write-ups. For instance, the Astros moved Jimmy Paredes to third base in the instructionals and he looked good, according to BA. Considering Paredes has struggled some in the field this spring and that there were already scouting report suggesting he'd have to move off-position, and it's safe to say his future probably lies at the hot corner. MIke Kvasnicka also looked good at third base, showing "rapid improvement." BA was also positive about the talent Ariel Ovando flashed in the instructional league, saying his bat played well against the most advanced pitching he'd seen.

There was a really positive writeup on Mike Foltynewicz that made me more excited about his future (if that was possible). But, the pitcher who I came away with a better opinion of was Ross Seaton. I liked the young righthander when he was throwing in Lexington with Lyles, but he was inconsistent to end that season and really got roughed up in Lancaster. The impressive thing that I had missed so far is that Seaton hasn't missed a start in two seasons. Sure, it's only two season and 50 starts, but it's a start. Pitching durability is sort of a lightning in a bottle proposition. If Seaton somehow turns out to have one of those magical durable arms? He's more valuable than mediocre numbers in an extreme hitter's park might show.

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Astros Spring Notebook

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Astros Spring Notebook

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I read some where a day or two ago, that the Astros aren’t putting game plans together for hitters. Which means the pitchers are going up there, just working on pitches and trying to get hitters out without knowing what the hitters strengths are. Giving credence to the notion that Spring Training statistics are for the most part meaningless.

by Timothy De Block on Mar 10, 2011 7:26 AM CST reply actions  

Although fans become focused on spring training stats, managers always say that they don’t make any decisions on spring stats. Instead, they are evaluating them in a scouting sense.

by clack on Mar 10, 2011 7:30 AM CST up reply actions  

Which is exactly how it should be.

I think Spring Training results are way overblown, simply because we have been without baseball for so long and seeing someone perform well 3-4 games in a row is awesome to see. But in reality, Spring Training is nothing more (imo) than getting back into baseball shape (healthy, timing, cardio, mental, daily grind)

I remember last spring training or the one before, Paul Maholm from the Pirates was dominating and was drafted far sooner than normal in several fantasy baseball leagues because of it, i still find that funny. Because when the season started, he was still just average ol’ Paul Maholm.

by baggs on Mar 10, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions  

Veteran pitchers have poor springs all the time and then turn it around when the season starts so I know that spring stats don’t mean much. They mainly go out there with a game plan and get their work in each outing. This seems like it would make the evaluating process very difficult when you have rotation battles. If a pitcher looks good but hasn’t been able to keep the runs off the board in spring then it would be hard to guage how he would do in the season.
Do they start looking at stats towards the end of spring training when guys are fine-tuning their craft and getting season ready?

by conroestro on Mar 10, 2011 10:53 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

To me, that last week of ST is when results start mattering a little more. They’re still not going to do detailed scouting like they will in the regular season, but pitchers are more likely to start mixing in pitches like they will after Opening Day.

I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson

by David Coleman on Mar 10, 2011 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

I was able to watch Lyles first outing of the preseason against the yanks and while his control wasn’t great in that game I did see some things I like. The most obvious was his demeanor and his ability to to stay focused even when the yanks were getting consistent contact. He seemed to understand how to pitch to contact and let the defense do the work, which is uncommon for a lighter his age.

And I saw the similar velocities with the fastball and based on previous scouting reports I have to assume it’s the use of two fastballs, primarily the 2-seam. Many reports I’ve seen is that he has good velocity with the 4-seam but has less control while he controls the other much better.

I also saw two curves in that outing, both that looked fairly sharp. Orem said last season that his curve improved drastically last year and I’d have to agree based in that. It wasn’t loopy like some video I’ve seen. Although like his other pitches that day, the control was a little off.

by Subber10 on Mar 10, 2011 11:13 AM CST via mobile reply actions  

One of the things to watch on Lyles is how many pitches he requires to get through an inning. Although he may be a pitch-to-contact guy, he has had issues with throwing a lot of pitches. (Now, that’s no uncommon for a very young pitcher—-it’s almost expected.) As I recall he used 40 pitches to get through a couple of innings in the Yankees game. Even if he is getting good ultimate results (e.g., no earned runs, etc.), the efficiency issue is still critical to whether he is ready for the majors. For example, you wouldn’t want to make him a starter in the majors and only be a 4 or 5 inning pitcher due to pitch count limits.

by clack on Mar 10, 2011 12:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Seaton and Mier both have solid chances for drastic rebound seasons, IMHO.

Paredes being given time at 3rd is one of the reasons I thought he might be given a legit shot to win a backup IF job on the big team.

by Snake Diggity on Mar 10, 2011 11:49 AM CST reply actions  

I think Seaton and Mier may have bounce back years as well. My question is, do they repeat a level or just get bumped up automatically? It may make sense to have them repeat a level, at least to start out the season.

by jmike on Mar 10, 2011 10:04 PM CST up reply actions  

Lyles four-seamer

If Lyles possesses the ability to rush his four seamed up there at 95 at times then should the Astros return him to triple-A to work on his command of that pitch. It seems like that would be a great weapon for him as long as he still throws it free and easy without altering his mechanics so he is not at a greater risk for injury. A 95 mph fastball coupled with a 90 mph two seamed with a good changeup and decent curve seems like that would put him in the elite category wouldn’t it.

by conroestro on Mar 10, 2011 12:13 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

If my memory serve me right, I believe the reports also indicated that the 4-seam was also pretty flat and strait. A 4-seam like that, even at 95 can be more hittable than a 90 2-seam with good movement. IMO it’s better to teach a kid to learn to induce ground balls than to rely on strikeouts. It seems that is what the Astros have done with Lyles. I do agree that it could be phenomenal pitch for him if he can control it better and possibly add a little movement to it. It’s little things like that is why many of us want him to start at AAA. That and the whole injury risk and arbitration time clock.

by Subber10 on Mar 10, 2011 1:34 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

I love his potential

I think as is he could be about as effective as most fifth starters in the game. However I don’t think Lyles should be rushed and can benefit from one more year in the minors. Just a little fine tweaking and polishing and when he actually gets up to the majors he could have the potential to dominate.

by Its Gonna Happen on Mar 10, 2011 3:31 PM CST via mobile up reply actions  

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