Contracts for Buehrle and Wilson Bode Well for Wandy Trade Options
Unlike recent years, the 2011 Winter Meetings have been interesting and action packed. The Marlins and Angels have made the biggest splashes, throwing around money like Pacman Jones in a gentleman's establishment. Of particular interest to the Astros are the signings of Albert Pujols (really??) and C.J. Wilson by the Angels.
The Pujols contract ensures that the Astros' biggest recurring hemmhroid will not disappear for at least a decade. It also puts the Angels back in the drivers' seat of the AL West for the next few years. The upside for the Astros is only that rumors have the Angels possibly non-tendering their slugging 1B Kendrys Morales. While it is doubtful that Morales will actually be non-tendered, if it happens, the Astros should aggressively bid on the young slugger.
Of more immediate import to the Astros, C.J. Wilson will now serve as the Angels' third or fourth starter, depending on how one values the erratic but impressive Ervin Santana. The move definitely weakens the position of the Texas Rangers, by moving their best starter to a division rival, making the division slightly less top-heavy.
Regardless, it is the contract itself that should mean something to the Astros, as well as the contract of Mark Buehrle, recently signed by the Marlins.
Wilson's contract is for five-years, $77.50 million (AAV=$15.5 million). Buehrle's is for five years, $58 million (AAV=$11 million).
Remember how Astros fans (author included) verbally slaughtered former GM Ed Wade for extending Wandy Rodriguez, who has three years and $36 million left on his deal? All of a sudden, Rodriguez has a comparatively favorable contract, a list of suitors who missed out on Wilson and Buehrle, is in some ways a better pitcher than both, is left-handed, and the Astros have incentive to move him.
The Astros are publicly shopping Wandy Rodriguez, and this may be our first glimpse at new GM Jeff Lunhow's trading savvy. The market has spoken, and a soft-tossing 33-year old left hander has been deemed worth as much money as Wandy. A 31-year-old converted reliever with only two seasons starting in the major leagues has been proclaimed worth almost twice as much as the money remaining on Wandy's contract.The statistics paint Wandy as a similar pitcher to Wilson over the past three years, and a superior pitcher to Buehrle. Below are some rate stats for all three pitchers, with a simple Roto-style ranking for comparison purposes. I found two different calculations for FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching), so I used them both.
| ERA | WHIP | H/9 | HR/9 | BB/9 | SO/9 | SO/BB | FIP(1) | FIP(2) | TOTAL | RANK | ||||||||||
| Wilson | 3.09 | 1 | 1.23 | 1 | 7.52 | 1 | 0.52 | 1 | 3.58 | 3 | 8.28 | 1 | 2.31 | 2 | 4.14 | 3 | 3.31 | 1 | 14 | 1 |
| Buehrle | 3.91 | 3 | 1.32 | 3 | 9.87 | 3 | 0.93 | 2 | 1.99 | 1 | 4.48 | 3 | 2.25 | 3 | 3.70 | 1 | 4.21 | 3 | 22 | 3 |
| Wandy | 3.36 | 2 | 1.28 | 2 | 8.48 | 2 | 0.94 | 3 | 3.04 | 2 | 8.17 | 2 | 2.69 | 1 | 3.96 | 2 | 3.76 | 2 | 18 | 2 |
As shown, Wandy Rodriguez has a strong case for being the best value per dollar among all three of these starters. He holds the best SO/BB rate, and only comes in third on home run rate.
Other factors that will make Wandy comparatively attractive to potential trade partners include:
- At an AAV of $12MM/season, he is already a better value than Buehrle, and with less years remaining on his contract (less risk!) than both Wilson and Buehrle.
- The Astros might be willing to pay some of Rodriguez' salary in return for better minor league prospects, giving their trade partner a top-notch starter at a bargain cost.
- Wandy is a lefty, and those guys are hard to find. So are Wilson and Buehrle, but there just aren't a ton of dependable lefty starters, especially with the kind of strikeout numbers Wandy puts together.
- Rodriguez has demonstrated relative good health over the last few seasons, while many experts have expressed concern that Wilson, a a converted reliever, may not hold up long-term to a 200-inning workload.
- Rodriguez' contract ends in his Age 35 season, giving the new club a few years to determine if an extension might be in the cards. If Rodriguez arm holds up, there's no reason that he can't be a solid option for his new team for years to come, but that team will not have to commit to a long-term relationship right away.
Sources indicate that other teams interested in Wilson were the Marlins (duh), Rangers (double duh), Nationals, Cubs, and Red Sox. Each of those teams should be able to put a package together to pry Wandy from the Astros under favorable conditions for both teams. Other suitors mentioned for Wandy include the Yankees, Reds, and Rockies. Of all of those clubs, only the Cubs would be draining their farm system to make an offer (so one can probably count them out of the running considering their own need to rebuild). On each of these suitors, Wandy would be a top-of-rotation starter, in most cases slotting in as the #2.
Astros fans can speculate all day about what packages could be offered for Wandy, an exercise that is as fun as it is pointless, so please post in the comments what you would think is a reasonable offer for him including financial compensation. The most important thing is that the Astros are in as good a position as they've ever been in to make a trade in their favor, which would have a big impact on how quickly the club can return to contender status.
Edit: 1:22 PM As somebody pointed out below, Buehrle's contract is actually for four years, not five. The original source I got that number from was wrong. But I don't feel like changing the article. :)
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I never thought the Wandy extension was bad.
I think a lot of baseball people think it’s bad because it’s just not team friendly enough (i.e. He wasn’t signed for as cheaply as some would’ve liked). That said, though, compared to Buehrle this contract does now look like a bargain.
I’ve heard the Astros don’t want to eat any money for Wandy, but I think the team needs to be as open as possible regarding any potential deals—even if that does mean eating some salary. This is the last, best remaining trade chip the Astros have, so I’m excited to see what Luhnow is able to extract in return.
A lot of "experts" said Wade overpaid at the time
The part of the contract I screamed about was the automatic renewal of his contract in 2014 if he is traded to another team. Right now, it doesn’t look like a very big deal, but only in comparison to the Wilson and Buehrle deals.
I think it was a good contract if the Astros were going to keep Wandy, and I think Wade thought they would at the time. If he is traded, the option makes his contract less desireable.
Only slightly, when compared to Wilson and Buehrle. Think of what Wandy would have gotten on the Free Agent market this season. Something close to Wilson’s contract would be my guess, simply because of supply and demand. Even with the extension, Wandy looks like a good bang-for-buck acquisition right now.
I dont think we overpaid for Wandy but the deal is that the contract with the automatic option if he was traded handcuffed the Astros. If all that were missing was a couple of starting pitchers then yes sign Myers, and Wandy to extension’s. Where the team was when these extensions were given is what one of Wade’s worst deals along with Lyon.
I agree, in Myers case
Rule 1: NEVER overpay for a pitchers’ best career year. Now Myers has less value as a trade chip (seemingly) than even Carlos Lee.
Wandy at least was pitching to deserve an extension for several seasons.
Thats fine with Wandy but I would like to see the Astros offer a medium road contract to Bud now to lock him up for the next 3-5 years. Maybe 5 mill a year for 5 years.
I think if we had offered Pence 4 million a year for a 5 year deal 3 years ago I think he would have signed. He was already proven and we dont eat money on the trade.
Giving him an Evan Longoria type deal after his rookie year
Would’ve been pretty worthwhile, in hindsight.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
We paid way more in arbitration to Pence. When is Bud Norris arbitration eligible. If Wandy gets traded Norris will be our number 1 starter so I dont understand locking him up a little early. I think it would the Stros less in the long run. Then if you want to trade him he has a favorable contract.
My worry about locking Norris up
Is that I am still waiting for his arm to fall off from all the sliders and his not-ideal mechanics. I would otherwise be in favor of it.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
It takes two to tango. Not all rookies want to give a big discount. And Pence’s rookie season was his best year in batting average and OPS. In hindsight, it’s difficult to know whether that would have been the best course. Pence and his agent seem to be a hard bargainers, based on the arbitration offers.
At least the Astros have a book on pitching Pujols, which is more than the AL teams. The Astros are above average in pitching to Pujols. That seems hard to believe because Pujols has done so much damage to the Astros. But that’s just a sign of how good he is. You can pitch him better than other teams, but he still kills you. Bud Norris has been so good against Pujols that even Pujols took up the Chuck Norris jokes.
I think the Astros still have to give up some money to get top prospects for Wandy. If the Astros continue to hold firm on sending no money, I think the prospect return will be less than satisfying. Previously, I have compared Wandy and Wilson over the last three years, and they are amazingly similar in results (i.e., ERA, FIP, x-FIP). In fact, Wandy has the better pitcher, IMO. The cumulative three results you show in the article for Wilson probably overstate his performance. He was a relief pitcher in 2009, and that tends to improve most pitcher’s rate stats.
I agree completely with everything you say here
I wanted to go back farther than 2 years in the comparison though, partly to demonstrate Wandy’s overlooked consistency.
I defended the Wandy extension from the beginning; while I never thought it was a big win for the ‘stros, I thought it was a fair contract. The problem is that Wandy’s reputation isn’t as hyped as Wilson or Buerhle, and it’s compounded that several other teams are shopping pitchers as trade targets who may be better than wandy (Danks, Gio, Lohse, etc.), so it may end up being a buyer’s market.
I figured the Astros would be willing to send some cash with Wandy to get better prospects; I was thinking they should send ~$6M and get a return similar to what they received for Oswalt (1 top 100, 1 org top 10, 1 org top 30).
I very much disagree with the notion that Danks and Lohse are better than Wandy
The numbers and actual performance doesn’t back that up. Wandy’s also a lefty, which comes at a slight premium. I think they can do better than the Oswalt trade because I think Wandy’s perceived value right now is a little higher than Oswalt’s was at the time. At the time, writers all talked about Oswalt’s declining strikeout rate and perpetual back issues. I’m hoping Wandy will bring back something better than the Oswalt deal, but likely not as good as the Pence deal.
I’d be VERY happy if Houston got more for Wandy than they did for Oswalt, especially if they don’t eat any salary in the deal.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 8, 2011 12:34 PM CST up reply actions
Depends on what offers come in. There could be some teams that consider themselves on the edge of a championship (Yankees? Rockies? Reds?) who think they are one good starter away. If that’s the case, it’s very conceivable that they overreact to the sudden loss of Buehrle and Wilson on the market and compete against each other to trade for Wandy.
This is what I am hoping for.
I'd be surprised if Wandy isn't traded this month.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 12:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Side thought:
It just occurred to me: the Pujols and Wilson signings could be VERY good for the Astros.
Fast forward to 2017. Pujols will be old and Wilson will be on the tail end of his contract. The Angels will have so much money committed to aging players that they will be unable to continue building around free agents or a young core (sound familiar?) At the same time, Hamilton, Cruz, Kinsler, and others of the Texas Ranger will be in the twilight of their careers.
If the rebuilding process actually goes to plan, the Astros stand as good a chance as any other team in the division of filling the void when those two goliaths start to fall.
My thoughts exactly.
In the short term, this is a very good move for the Angels. They have a few good, young players (like Trumbo, Weaver, Conger), but they also have some expensive vets who don’t have much time left (Abreu, Wells, Hunter) too.
Obviously they’re aware that their window for winning is pretty much now and so they’re willing to dish out a couple of really huge, potentially risky contracts right now with the thought that they’ll extend the window slightly to win a championship or two in the near future.
Interestingly, this, in many ways, is quite similar to the position the Astros were in from 2006 to 2008 when they made some pretty big trades (Tejada, Jennings) and signings (Woody Williams, Carlos Lee) to try and extend their window a bit too.
Of course, we all know how that has worked out, but only time will tell for the Angels.
You're welcome!
BTW- Going back to the original post, isn’t Buehrle signed for 4 years at $58 million?
Interesting that Wandy, Buehrle, and CJ—all lefties—have contracts that are pretty comparable (even if we count Wandy’s ’14 option) and end around the time each player is 35.
Trade Ideas
Marlins- Matt Dominguez and Chad James plus lowA SS
Reds- Yonder Alonso and Sam LeCure plus lowA SS
Rangers- Tanner Scheppers and Mike Olt plus lowA SS
Nats- Brad Peacock and Steve Lombardozzi plus lowA SS
Yankees- Dellin Betances and Eduardo Nunez plus lowA SS
Rockies- Chad Bettis and Josh Rutledge plus lowA SS
Red Sox- Jed Lowrie and Drake Britton plus lowA SS
I like a lot of those ideas
I think the Marlins one is a possibility, but you know how I feel about Alonso. I seriously doubt that the Yankees will part with Betances for any reason short of Cliff Lee.
I like the Red Sox idea, but I’m not sure I really want Lowrie. By the time the Astros are competitive again, Lowrie will be near or at Free Agency, about 30 years old, and won’t be a part of the Astros “championship” plans. I think high-upside AA’ers are the way I would prefer to go.
Most of those are probably overly optimistic. But that’s what I think Wandy’s worth.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 8, 2011 1:03 PM CST up reply actions
These are the needs I would like to see addressed via trade:
MLB: C, SS, CF
AAA: C, IF
AA: 2B
A: SS, 3B
by Snake Diggity on Dec 8, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions
Don't want Alonso that much.
Would block Singleton.
We do need a DH, though.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Dec 8, 2011 4:58 PM CST up reply actions
Or one of the two, anyway.
Both of them can kinda-sorta play an outfield corner too, and MMP’s left field has never been a challenging one.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Darvish, Oswalt, Edwin Jackson, Paul Maholm, Kyle Lohse, Gio Gonzales, and Hiroki Kuroda will all likely have an impact on Wandy’s value and likelihood of him being traded. Danks, Floyd, and several others could as well.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 8, 2011 2:42 PM CST up reply actions
Another problem is that next offseason looks to have a lot of good FA pitching
Teams may decide it’s not that urgent to trade for a pitcher when there are and will be so many options in free agency.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Aside from Crane’s apparent need to cut payroll immediately, there doesn’t appear to be much upside in trading him now vs waiting until the deadline when FA’s can’t interfere in the market and there’s less $ on Wandy’s contract.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 8, 2011 2:48 PM CST up reply actions
Nice compliment from Mozeliak.
drewsilv Drew Silva
Asked about Jeff Luhnow being named the Astros’ GM, Mozeliak: “I’m glad they’re moving to the AL West.”
That's pretty cool.
Encouraging stuff.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Dec 8, 2011 5:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
The lead on McTaggert's article about the Luhnow selection is also interesting....
Shortly after completing a lengthy phone interview with Astros president and CEO George Postolos last week, Jeff Luhnow told Postolos he wanted to send him more information. Instead of a resume and cover letter, Postolos was astonished to find a 25-page plan to improve the Astros.
by clack on Dec 8, 2011 9:19 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
right on... pitcher contracts show the value of myers and rodriquez
some of these acquisitiions are dumb… pujols…??? 10 yrs… he is at least 2 yrs older than he says he is…his stats show it….he is declining steadily…he is more likely 35 thand 32.. so angel;s got this almost over hill guy until he is 45…geez..in 2013 astros are going to be kicking angel;s butts… and competing even with rangers…mariners and a’s…forget them… mike h
I’m not sure I like this part:
But, since the Astros are at a different point in their team cycle, they might not require as much of a bounty for Rodriguez — especially if someone eats his whole salary.
The article surmises that the Astros would be willing to accept low level prospects in order to avoid his salary.
I think that sentence may be more the author projecting his own opinion on the situation rather than any sort of insight that was provided by in-the-know people. The sentence just doesn’t sound definitive enough to make me worried.
I don’t like it, but I agree with the premise that the Astros are in a good position to take a bounty of YOUNG prospects rather than MLB-ready ones. If anything it makes it more likely Wandy would be traded. But young prospects are soooooo risky, it’s possible that nothing they get in return will amount to anything.
Still, I think it’s a chance that needs to be made.

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