Astros Acquire Jed Lowrie and Kyle Weiland for Mark Melancon
by Timothy De Block on Dec 14, 2011 11:52 AM CST
in Houston Astros News
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PrintJeff Luhnow has provided us with our first gift of the holiday season as new general manager of the Astros. Jerry Cransick appears to have been the first one to report the trade with Ken Rosenthal confirming.
In return for Mark Melancon the Astros receive shortstop Jed Lowrie and right handed starting pitcher Kyle Weiland from the Boston Red Sox.
In 2011 at the age of 24 Weiland posted a 7.66 ERA in 24.2 innings for the Red Sox in 7 games, 5 of which were starts. Obviously small sample size so we won't jump to any conclusions just yet. Weiland was drafted in the 3rd round and has had a steady climb through the minors. For his Minor League career he has a 3.51 ERA in 449.1 innings with a 1.215 WHIP, a 8.5 SO/9 and a 3.4 BB/9.
Weiland features a 90-95 fastball in a two-seam and four-seam variety, a 78-81 curveball, a 85-88 cutter and a low 80's changeup. I imagine the Astros will try him out as a starter and move him to the bullpen if necessary.
The switch hitting Lowrie has been in the majors since 2008 and has posted a .252/.324/.408 line in 256 games. With a Minor League .286/.381/.448 line, he has some untapped offensive potential. Injuries have been a big issue. If he can stay healthy he may be able to provide some offensive production at a premium defensive position.
Speaking of defense, the advanced defensive metrics have not been kind to him at the shortstop position the past couple seasons. However small sample sizes and injuries may have affected those ratings. He looks to be average defensively at second and third base. If anything he may turn into a decent utility infielder.
Gotta say I like this move. It's creative and something the previous front office probably wouldn't of gotten done. The Astros are taking on some risk here giving up a cost effective player in Melancon for Weiland an unproven pitcher and Lowrie a struggling position player. In the end though taking chances like these are what the Astros need to be doing. If the price for a potential starter and starting shortstop is a bullpen piece sign me up.
For Red Sox fan reaction check out this article by Over The Monser.
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me likely
both are a bit of a gamble, but at worst they can be average major leaguers. At best valuable complimentary pieces.
DFA Angel Sanchez. NOW.
Big fan of move
For a solid closer on a bad team its a nice haul… Good first move for the new gm
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Dec 14, 2011 11:54 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Since Luhnow apparently reads blogs and this is the leading Astros blog…
TCB Stamp of Approval!
by Subber10 on Dec 14, 2011 11:56 AM CST reply actions 2 recs
Good Move
You get a legit starting shortstop and a pitcher for an at best average closer. I like this guy already. Did the Sox hire ed wade?
by wdh001 on Dec 14, 2011 11:56 AM CST via mobile reply actions
Love the move
Only question now is who closes? Back to Lyon to start the year? I think Abreu has the stuff to handle the job at some point should Lyon falter again, or have lingering effects from his surgery.
Open tryouts: F Rod, EDR, Carpenter, Abreu, Lopez, Lyon, and Cruz all have a chance.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 14, 2011 12:44 PM CST up reply actions
Eh. How many save situations could we possibly get, 25-30?
by MadMartygan on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions
Yeah would rather see us have a closer by committee. We have alot of guys with plus velocity would rather see the cream rise to the top
by Nado2036 on Dec 14, 2011 12:51 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
That’s fine with me for right now. There’s a good chance someone will emerge.
by MadMartygan on Dec 14, 2011 12:52 PM CST up reply actions
I can see some competition among Carpenter, Abreu, Wilton Lopez, and Fernando Rodriguez. Maybe we will another high velocity type pitcher pick up too (beyond the Rule 5 pick).
I didnt think Valdez was that bad last year either when he stayed on top of the ball. Kinda reminded me of Lidge a bit with his slider.
Valdez just doesn't have breaking stuff
At all. At the very best it’s wildly inconsistent.
I love love love this trade
In two seasons, Lowrie should be a good trade candidate when Villar is (hopefully) ready to take over at shortstop. He’s a good-hitting shortstop who fills an immediate need without sacrificing any future needs.
I also like Weiland, just based on the stats. I could see him succeeding as a decent #4 starter. With his decent K numbers, even small improvements could make him very valuable in the rotation.
This scouting report compares him to Nick Blackburn. I don’t agree with this comparison as Weiland’s much higher minor league strikout rate should give him a boost, even with inferior walk numbers. But even if Weiland levels out as Nick Blackburn, Blackburn has had a solid career so far and the Astros could do a lot worse than a guy like that in the back of their rotation.
If he turns out to be a reliever, he could be a really good one. I want to see him start first.
Nick Blackburn and Mark Ellis for Melancon. Cool.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 14, 2011 12:55 PM CST up reply actions
I like this trade now.
Worst part, no sharky pics….
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 12:21 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Man, I'm gonna miss the Shark
But relievers are volatile and the Sox were blood thirsty.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
I'm not as high on this move, but it does result in filling holes.
Sorry guys, but I like Melancon. I think he’s a very good closer and, on top of that, someone who’s not even arb eligible yet for another couple of seasons. 2 years from now, I think Melancon could wind up as a top of the line closer and net an even more impressive haul in return.
Of course, let’s not forget where the Astros are currently. They have a limited payroll and holes upon holes throughout the roster, so I can understand the move.
In return for Melancon, the Astros get a possible everyday player in Lowrie who will likely compete for the SS position or as a backup. If he can stay healthy (that’s a big IF), and produces some decent offensive stats, I could see him being a bounce-back type player like Clint Barmes with some trade value during the summer. At worst, I think he’s a warm body until Villar/Mier are ready in a season or two.
Weiland didn’t do very well in limited action with the Red Sox, but he had decent numbers in the minors. I could see him eventually turning in to a middle rotation guy with a bit more seasoning. That’s probably the nicest part about this trade: Starters don’t exactly grow on trees, and if the Astros get a good starter as a result of this trade, they’ve done quite well. At worst, he’s another warm body until prospects are ready.
Overall, the BoSox sold low on two guys with some potential upside while the Astros sold high on a guy who could be an excellent closer down the line. Only time will tell, but it looks like a win-win situation for both teams.
Compete for SS or backup???
Shortstops who slug over .400 and have a walk rate near 10% don’t grow on trees, man. He is already a 3.5 career WAR player (920 PA) compared to 0.0 WAR for Angel Sanchez (628 PA). He is definitely a better option than our Rule 5 pick, who looks to be a likely backup, if he isn’t sent back to his original team in spring training.
Lowrie even compares favorably to Barmes, who only has an 8.6 WAR in over 3,000 plate appearances, and 3.1 of that was from last season!
I think you’re selling him way low. He’s not a star in the making, but he is better than any of the available Free Agent shortstops not named Jimmy Rollins, and he’s lightyears better than anybody the Astros had on their roster yesterday.
I understand what you're saying, but...
Lowrie has a lot of shortcomings too. He’s kind of the anti-Barmes in a lot of ways—great with the bat, but not so great with the defense. He’s a switch hitter, and those guys are quite rare, but his splits are not very good. And there’s also the biggest question mark: His injury history. I mean, I’m not saying this will happen, but Jed Lowrie could end up making Kaz Matsui look like Cal Ripken.
So there’s a lot to think about there. I agree with you that he’s probably the odds on favorite to win the SS spot, but I could also see him playing 2B or 3B. The point I’m trying to make is that the Astros simply have so many holes in the roster that he’s going to stick somewhere. (Let’s just hope it’s not in the infirmary.)
He's actually not bad on defense.
He’s not good either, but that’s a huge improvement over anybody else on the roster.
As far as injury, you seem to be repeating what you heard rather than looking it up. He missed 94 games in 2010 recovering from serious mononucleosis, and had wrist surgery in 2009 (which has not seemed to flare up at any point, according to Baseball Prospectus’ injury tracker).
Other than those two major and likely non-repeatable situations, he’s been no more injury prone than an average ball player. Some shoulder soreness last year, but nothing indicated structural damage – it appeared to be a pinched nerve caused by a collision (not fatigue or overuse) that obviously the Astros aren’t concerned about.
I think his fragility is vastly overstated, as of his major DL stints so far, only last year’s shoulder thing could be considered a long-term concern.
As far as injury, you seem to be repeating what you heard rather than looking it up.
Apologies, that sounded way more aggressive than I meant it to.
No offense taken
I absolutely hope you’re right. A healthy Lowrie would be a great addition to this team, but there’s also a reason why the Red Sox sold so low on him, too.
Well yes
Their reason’s name is Marco Scutaro. And also the fact that they just lost their closer and are converting their setup guy to a starter.
Weiland could be another Melancon anyways
Based on the peripheral stats, if Weiland doesn’t make it as a starter, he could very well be another version of Melancon. Strike out rate, ground ball rates, and pitch repertoire between Weiland and Melancon are all pretty similar. I also think Weiland can be a serviceable starter for us. Definitely like the move.
I didn’t realize Lowrie’s platoon splits were so drastic. It’ll be interesting to see what he can do if he plays a full, healthy season.
I fully expect more trades to come and am intrigued to see what prospects we can get back for possible Lee, Wandy, and Myers.
Sox fan here
Thats a pretty good take on both Lowrie and Weiland but I must point out that Lowrie’s defense is coming as advertised by the metrics. Zero range and a below average arm make him pretty painful to watch at times. Offensively, if he can learn to master right handed pitching more consistently, he’s a solid player. Bill James had him tapped as a 35+ doubles guy, IIRC. The biggest “if” with Lowrie is his health but many people feel as if that was overblown and that the Sox mishandled his rehab.
Weiland has the stuff to be a solid back end starter or a useful BP arm as he progresses further.
What’s the take on Melancon? A lot of people are suggesting he could take over as closer now. Is that feasible?
Melancon is good. He probably is best in the set up role, but he is capable of being an average closer, since that is what he did with the Astros. I felt like he struggled at times when he faced very high leverage situations in the 9th inning, but that probably is to be expected since he was inexperienced in the role. He can be dominating when he is “on,” but he isn’t the high velocity type closer who throws his FBs by every hitter. He has good (not great) velocity, but it’s not usually above 93 or so. . He has a good cutter, and a terrific curveball (a spike curve, I think) which drops off the table if he is “on.” Melancon was the best bullpen pitcher on the Astros, and I can see him improving with experience.
I agree. He was considered a decent defender as a young prospect, and let’s see if his defense at shortstop is that bad when he has more chances. We got someone better than what we had….plus the added bonus of potential upside, which wed didn’t have. Also, keep in mind that Lowrie can play other positions like 2d and 3d where his bat may be good enough to be acceptable at those positions.
I’m just impressed by the move. It’s creative, and it is an actual sell high.
by MadMartygan on Dec 14, 2011 12:54 PM CST up reply actions
Not even sure about his "Bad" rep at D
DRS has him at -5 for his ML career (1124.1 innings) which is not bad, it’s average. UZR/150 has him at 3.0, which is also completely average.
Seeing as both of those numbers are far better than Sanchez or any other option we were looking at before today, I’m pretty pleased.
I think he's a good pickup for the Sox
Obviously he was our closer, and I think he did quite well in the role, but the Sox like him better as a setup guy.
I think he was overused a bit last year, and lost a bit of effectiveness at times, but he was quite good when he was on.
Oh yeah, and he’s not even arb eligible yet.
Could he develop in to a full time closer eventually? The Yankees certainly thought so and I think that’s certainly a possibility for the Sox too.
I fall in line with most others here...
I like the trade. If you’re of the mind that closers are overvalued, then you really have to like this trade. I like gambling on Jed Lowrie. He was a premium prospect at one time who was held back by injuries. Though he hasn’t achieved his potential (and to some extent hasn’t had the chances), baseball teams still liked him. Teams will always give chances to a player who can hold down a middle infield position and show promise to hit with some power. He was getting lots of scouting in the winter leagues. I previously suggested trading Wandy for Lowrie and a prospect, but I like this better…because the Astros still have their big bullet left to fire.
The Red Sox “Over the Monster” comments suggest that a sizeable number of the fans felt like the Red Sox didn’t get enough, with some of those commenters wishing that Lowrie wasn’t in the trade and some regretting Weiland’s inclusion in the trade. The remaining commenters think it’s a fair trade to both sides.
Melancon only counted as a closer
because he pitched the 9th inning.
No real plus pitch. Solid cutter, but it was off quite often last season (remember that Brian McCann bomb?). That was almost as painful as Lyon’s Philly BS.
Melancon’s curvball was absolutely filthy
by Nado2036 on Dec 14, 2011 12:49 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
When he commands it yes
Too bad that wasn’t all that often. If he can hone that pitch, he could become a top 10 in the league closer, I think.
That's the thing about being a closer though.
If you throw hard enough, and have one or two other pitches to mix in (even if they’re not that great), you can usually be pretty effective.
All the more reason why this was a great sell-high trade by the Astros
Because if you throw hard enough, and have one or two other pitches to mix in, a pitcher can usually be pretty effective.
Man. Out of pocket for the morning due to work and I missed the first significant deal of the offseason. At least I know how my lunch break is going to be spent.
by conroestro on Dec 14, 2011 12:40 PM CST via mobile reply actions
With this trade I think Altuve with be starting season in OKC
We have picked up now 4 potential SS’s this offseason with Sanchez we have 5 on the roster. This guy Lowrie is sounding alot like Sanchez at SS stop so could it be a possiblilty that they start Altuve in Okc along with Parades.
I don’t think that would be a bad idea. For Altuve to have long term success, he is going to need to learn how to walk more. More seasoning on the farm wouldn’t be the worst thing to happen to Altuve.
I wouldn’t be surprise if Angel Sanchez is cut after this trade. We’re gonna need to free up a spot on the 40-man somewhere.
by s0ssy on Dec 14, 2011 12:46 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Brian Bixler was dfa'd
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
We don't have 4 potential SS's
We have Lowrie and 3 guys who profile as major league utility backups at best. Let’s not confuse things.
There’s a gulf of a difference between a guy who stands at shortstop in the minors and a guy who can play with any sort of competency in the majors. The other three guys you refer to can’t field and can’t hit. Just because they’re listed on the depth chart doesn’t mean that they aren’t just roster filler.
The whole point of my post was that we have 4 guys supposedly competing for the SS job. Which means that we could keep all four at the major league level and let Parades and Altuve get a season at AAA to develop a bit more. Personally I dont see how CJ could even be a possiblilty to play 3b over Paredes but I do think he could be benefitted to some time at AAA.
Great thing about getting rid of Wade, now.
They won’t have to keep guys on the roster for reasons that might not be baseball related. Paredes, Altuve Lyles, these guys could probably benefit from a little work at AAA. I think J.D and Bogey are ready for their shot, though.
I think Bogey will have a good couple of years he is solid all the way around. He can play the corner OF positions very well and is a possiblity to fill in at CF. He can steal some bases, walks a considerable amount and does have some pop.
I’d like to see him and J.D get a real shot at manning the corners next year. I like them both.
by MadMartygan on Dec 14, 2011 1:06 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I kinda worry about JD’s knees other than that he looked really good last year. I would like to see Lee stay at 1B and I really dont care what happens with Wallace at this point I think he is a wast of space.
J.D. will be okay.
He just has to make it through 2012 before we can just stick him in the DH slot (/throws up in mouth).
If JD is Edgar Martinez than Lyles is Greg Maddux. C’mon guys, lets be at least semi-realistic.
by seanbergmanrules on Dec 14, 2011 6:02 PM CST up reply actions
Yes... it is Edgar
He is like some kind of mythological figure around here.
(moved to Seattle from H-town in 2010)
Until about a month ago I derived a great deal of joy in harassing the Mariners fans over the fact that their favorite player of all time was a professional hitter, not a professional baseball player.
I dont’ think they’re competing for the SS job anymore. I think it’s Lowrie’s to lose, and he’d only do that if hurt.
by CRPerry13 on Dec 14, 2011 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Why?
All of his injuries and illnesses are flukey…there’s nothing there to point at a recurring issue.
I hope so. I’m not sure you can write off all his injuries as flukey though. Any idea what his minor league / college track record is for injuries?
Good question
I don’t know for sure, but he seems to have played full seasons in the minors:
2005 A- : 201 AB
2006 A-: 374 AB
2007 AA & AAA: 497 AB
That’s pretty typical for a full-time minor leaguer.
Altuve
Altuve has proved he can hit minor league pitching. I think sending him down woudl be the wrong move. What he needs is major league time to learn to adjust. Putting him back in the minors where pitchers can’t locate well enough to make him learn plate discipline won’t help his development.
Aramis Rameriz?
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 1:57 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Ya it is, I wasn't trying to literraly compare them as similar players, just throwing a name around that is successful while being extremely aggressive (I know he has great power with a good eye).
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 8:51 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He does he have power like Aramis?? Is he going to be a 1 or 2 in the line up? I will let you answer the questions for yourself.
I'm not dumb.
I just know that A.R. swings at the 1st pitch ALLLLL THE TIME, so ya.
Don’t get butthurt about it.
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 8:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
He’s still a bit raw and swings at some bad pitches, but I agree that he deserves a shot at 2B.
Anything can happen in spring training, though, so I wouldn’t be totally shocked if he were sent down to start the year.
But minor league pitchers making mistakes over the plate aren’t going to teach Altuve to lay off of major league pitches that nibble the outside corner.
He has on obvious deficiency in his game. He was 21 years old and was rushed to the majors. I loved having him there for a little while, but the guy has stuff to work on. Triple A pitchers aren’t just big armed guys with poor command, there’s also guys with below average stuff with solid command. He didn’t master AAA and he was significantly aided by his babip.
I like the trade.
I liked Melancon a lot, but as a setup man and spot closer; I don’t think he’ll ever get to the point of being an automatic type of closer.
If Lowrie stays injury free, I don’t see any way that Houston loses on this deal. But that’s a significant if. But there’s plenty of room for this to be a home run, since with everyday play, Lowrie’s defense and overall game may improve. A guy who can play average D at SS and put up a 750 OPS? Hell ya. Also, I don’t think this means much for Altuve/etc. This deal wouldn’t have happened unless Luhnow thought Lowrie could be the everyday SS. If anything, it means Sanchez/Marwin/Bixler are competing for the backup SS job and it means that if Johnson beats out Paredes for the 3B job, Paredes will be in AAA (I’d had a thought that prior to this trade, Paredes could lose out to CJ and end up as one of hte utility guys.
Weiland will come right in and compete for a rotation slot. I think he may need some more time in AAA, but still a good get.
Good 1st move from Luhnow. Kudos.
With this move,
if Houston gets a little help at CF and C, the offense may approach average, which would be a BIG improvement over the last 2 years. If 1 of Wandy and Myers is still around, I think this team could win 75 games (although 70 is probably a more realistic goal).
a bit optimistic imo
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 1:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
So, 40 man...who gets removed now?
If we’re taking odds on favorites, I’m picking Angel Sanchez.
Anyone else?
Bixler, I think
I don’t really see how he fits in. At least Sanchez has a little 2B experience.
The more I think about this, the more I wonder..
Could another trade soon be on the horizon? Like, say, for Wandy or Myers?
The Astros just traded for a potential starter and they also need to clear a roster spot.
Hmmm….
Anything can happen....
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 1:56 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Hard to say
One thing you can’t have too much of though is young pitching depth.
But how many back of the rotation starters does one organization need?
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Well this one has more like 16.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
That's 17 more than they had at this time last year
That’s called progress.
an over abundance of mediocre pitchers. whoopee! How about getting
some guys with some real potential?
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
You have to have proven talent to receive potential. Getting the most out pf Melancon makes sense.
by conroestro on Dec 14, 2011 2:42 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I still wouldnt have gotten rid of your most reliable guy. What does
it leave this with now? Not much at all if anything.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Relievers are volatile. Who’s to say that he would be able to repeat last year.
by conroestro on Dec 14, 2011 2:47 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
whos to say he wouldnt?
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Whos to say it would matter if he did?
A closer is the last thing you look for. You don’t need a closer when you lose 100+ games, then downgrade your roster.
by seanbergmanrules on Dec 14, 2011 6:05 PM CST up reply actions
Screw the closer part of this argument. Who the hell
do you trust in that pen. I only had confidence in Melancon and he was in what his first full season? For a very young and extremely raw team (other than the Giant Buffalo) wins are going to be hard to come by so not having someone in that pen you can trust to close things out a majority of the time could be disaster with the morale of the young guys.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Who cares about the pen
on a 90 loss team?
I’d love to hear your suggestions on how the Astros should acquire guys with real potential at this point.
Back-end-of-rotation starters don’t grow on trees, you know. For every 5th-starter in the majors, there are dozens that are moved to the bullpen or never sniff the bigs at all.
Have yo unot looked at this system? Its loaded from top to bottom
with back of the rotation guys who can be turned into BP arms. This organization needs prospects for front of the rotation.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
You didn't answer my question
How do you suggest they go about obtaining front-of-rotation prospects?
How about drafting guys with that potential?
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
So
The only way for the GM to get a front-of-rotation starter is to draft one, which won’t come around until April, but you’re killing him for making a trade to acquire a good back-of-rotation starter and a shortstop?
Well since Ed traded away the only real talent that
was on this team youre arent goin to get top notch prospects which is why i would have held on to Melancon this year. I have a feeling wins are going to be scarce again this season and I have no confidence in anyone else in this pen.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Its me being harsh its me being realistic about
this year.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
With Melancon and Without
The Astros are still below .500, likely by a lot. So why not trade him when his value is at it’s peak, like it is now?
They didnt have to trade him. They now have
nobody in the pen that is trustworthy when those rare win situations come around.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Again, I'll ask
who cares about the pen on a 90-loss team? They needed a shortstop and starters more, and both of the guys they acquired will be more trade-able than Melancon in 2 seasons.
I actually think Weiland would be a good relief pitcher
If they wanted to go that route. But starters nearly always have more value than relievers. And it’s not like Melancon was a lockdown closer. He’s a 8th inning guy on a good team, and not a very proven one either.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
But he was the most reliable arm last season. do you trust anyone
else in that pen? I know I dont.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Does it matter?
Melancon was worth less than 1 Win to the team last year. (I know you don’t like stats, but they still can be used to illustrate a point). If we replace him with somebody completely average, the Astros lose 107 games instead of 106.
In 2010 (with a full slate of games), Lowrie was on pace to be worth 6 wins. A decent 5th starter could be worth as many as 2 wins.
By making this trade, the Astros could be a net +7 wins, making them a 99 loss team instead of 106.
For the record
I doubt Lowrie will ever post a 6 WAR season. But that’s what he was on pace for in 2010. I don’t think 4 to 4.5 is completely off the wall
Its not that I dont like stats i think people nowadays are
relying way too heavily on the saber stats. I could care less about about WAR and that stuff. Sox fans will tell that Lowerie is hit and miss and Weiland is nothing special. This team can very easily lose 120 games next seasons with the rotation that looks to be coming our way.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Melancon wouldn’t help us win many more games though.
Weiland and Lowrie may not be special, but they can be solid contributors. Weiland could end up being a closer thats better than Melancon.
He could also fall flat on his face just as easily.
I just dont trust anyone in the pen and with a much younger pitching staff headed our way I dont see this being a good thing especially with Millsie still here to boot.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Melancon could have fallen flat on his face. We aren’t contending so we traded an average at best closer for a guy who has a solid chance as a starter. A starter is more valuable. If starting doesn’t work out, he has good potential as a late inning guy. Plus a stop-gap SS that is a lot better than current options. Thats a win!
Weiland has potential to contribute in the future and if Lowrie finally develops, he could bring a great haul in a few years. Luhnow is building for the future.
Thats a lot of ifs there Subber. I see this as more
of meh type trade. Im not excited about it like you guys are. It just looks like more of the same ol stuff from this franchise.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Trading away a reliever instead trading for one, and trading high instead of trading low. It’s a nice little move, man. It’s not going to jump start us to contention but it’s very solid. Even the crappiest closers are gonna have some success in that role. Freaking Brandon Lyon was 20-22 when he was healthy. A really bad team has business overvaluing a closer.
Of course there’s a lot of ifs. It’s the risk involved. If it all works out, it’s a hell of a return! If it doesn’t, we lost a mediocre closer during the years we weren’t contending. Not much of a loss.
Agreed. You have to take risks at some point. This was a very good time to take this risk.
by conroestro on Dec 14, 2011 4:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
We have so many arms
Each of those back of the rotation starters you were complaining about could move to the pen and I’m sure we can figure something out from there. As for who closes, it doesn’t matter too too much to me next year. Wilton Lopez, maybe.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Im not complaining about them but when will this franchise start
trying to build for the future.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Please dont make pee myself laughing. Ill believe it when i
see it with this franchise.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
I thought 2012 was your last season as a fan?
by CRPerry13 on Dec 14, 2011 5:43 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
[This is serious] I thought your last DAY was when the 'Stros were approved?
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 8:41 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
You guys need pay attention. this is my last year
to follow the team and Im going about it as though they will be back in the NL next year. Last game of this season Im done with em.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
NO
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 10:25 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Where do you live? I'm finding you!
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 10:27 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I would love to see a sell-high move on Bourgeois. Behind Coco Crisp he’d be the most valuable CF on the market.
Crazy that you get caught with PED’s you get a 50 game suspension. You get caught with 4 pounds of pot you dont get anything.
What you get is.....
a hour watching the fly buzzing around the room that seems like 5 minutes, and the reasoning to think that dry shreaded wheat is actually tasty!
I know y’all would hate it, but I’d be ok with Shuck, Bogusevic, Buck, and a cheap free agent (Ankiel?) splitting it up. The defense would suffer a bit, but each of those guys brings things offensively that Bourgeois and Schafer don’t project to bring.
by Snake Diggity on Dec 14, 2011 3:57 PM CST up reply actions
I still think that Schafer has more potential offensively than all of those guys you mentioned.
Where the Astros bought low on Lowrie, they bought real low on Schafer.
by conroestro on Dec 14, 2011 10:48 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's Bixler
Zachary Levine
@zacharylevine
Astros-Red Sox trade is done. Brian Bixler will be removed from the 40-man roster to make space.
This trade is bloody brilliant
Anytime you can shop a relief pitcher for an everyday regular I’m all for it. Weiland is just a bonus.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
by OremLK on Dec 14, 2011 2:12 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I want to add one thing
Do keep in mind Lowrie is 27, entering arbitration, and doesn’t really line up with our time table for contending unless we hand him an extension into his free agent years. All of that said, I still think it’s an excellent trade because if he stays healthy, his value will be rebuilt and we can flip him for a better return (absolute best case, Hunter Pence type return) in a year or year and a half.
http://www.crawfishboxes.com
Berkman for Melancon and Paredes
Melancon for Lowrie and Weiland
Berkman netted us Lowrie, Weiland, and Paredes. I like it!
Wade had the right idea but lacked the balls and know-how to get it done.
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 14, 2011 4:08 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I liked Melancon
I thought he had really good “stuff”, but his command was Happ-ish. Not as bad as Happ but the same jumping around the strike zone, top to bottom left to right tendencies. It proved effective when he didn’t throw it dead center but I’d prefer someone like Lopez who can hit down and away consistantly with different pitches. Overall I’m sad to see him go, but it was a good thing that we sold high on him and may have gotten some guys with some upside.
As for the GM, I thought we got the better of the trade. My hat is tipped to you sir and may I have another?
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 14, 2011 3:44 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'm gonna miss Shark.
I’m ok with the trade. The Astros can’t really afford to be picky, considering the lack of talent throughout the system…
Same here, I grew attached to the shark
But Luhnow pulled off a great trade in the interest of the current Houston Astros.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Thank you Lunhow!
Great trade. I certainly approve.
"In the biographies of men and nations, success often arrives in a mask of failure"
Good trade
no point having good closers on a crappy team. Ed Wade probably would’ve traded prospects for another closer knowing him haha
by goingforthecorner on Dec 14, 2011 6:03 PM CST reply actions
Ed Wade would have traded Melancon for 2 minor league relief pitchers from Philly
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
by BustaPozee on Dec 14, 2011 6:34 PM CST up reply actions 4 recs
That sentence has more truth in it than anything I've read this week.
"In the biographies of men and nations, success often arrives in a mask of failure"
by hunterpencefan on Dec 14, 2011 7:13 PM CST up reply actions
Is this green?
I LOVE THE ASTROS. Now lets win something!
by ccislanders on Dec 14, 2011 8:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
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Current Series
Astros lead the series 1-0
| Fri 05/25 |
WP: Lucas Harrell (4 - 3)
SV: Brett Myers LP: Clayton Kershaw (4 - 2) |
3 - 1 win |
|
Houston Astros
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 9:10 PM CDT Bud Norris vs Chad Billingsley Mostly clear. Winds blowing out to right field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 65. |
||
| Sun 05/27 | 3:10 PM CDT | |
NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:14 PM CDT)
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