More Thoughts As Front Office Firings Sink In
Lots and lots and LOTs of media reaction so far this morning on the news that Wade and Smith are gone. Let's run down the highlights before getting to more thoughts:
- Wade was told he was fired last Wednesday, meaning on Jim Crane's second official day on the job.
- He's also getting paid through 2013 because of his contract under Drayton McLane. That means Crane had to eat quite a bit of money at a very late date to get a new GM in place. That is a pretty gusty decision.
- Tal Smith was bitter about getting the axe. He isn't gracefully retiring, he was booted out by a phone call Sunday night as he was in Hawaii with his family. He was none too pleased.
- Brad Mills is safe for now, as the ownership will wait until a new GM is in place to make a decision on him. I wouldn't be signing any long-term leases in the Houston-area if I were Brad Mills, though.
- Buster Olney talks to one executive who says the Astros are 4-7 years away from contention again, which will affect who they can get as a new GM. As Astros County points out, the Astros situation isn't the best without the long wait for contention.
That's a lot to react to, but I'll do my best after the jump...
The more and more that I hear about how Crane went about this, I'm more and more furious that the ownership transition took this long. Wade should have been fired back in September or October, giving Houston the chance to find a GM long before this point.
I know Crane got the $70 million for negotiating in the months between the July vote and the November confirmation. He probably was able to then use some of that savings to justify eating two years of Wade's contract. But, it still stinks. Selig ramrodded this whole AL move down the Houston franchise's throat and it cost him more than just money. It cost him time.
The list of GM candidates Steve Campbell gathered is fairly impressive. I am no more ready to say Andrew Friedman is likely to come back to Houston than I was when his name surfaced this summer. Hunsicker? Maybe. I still think it's most likely that the guy who will be in charge is one of the two Ranger executives. Crane has played up how much he likes that franchise and how they work. Both of those guys would move easily right now, could be set up as a GM easily with a step up and wouldn't cost a whole lot of money. If Crane so chose, he could even bring Hunsicker back as the President of Baseball Operations and install someone like Thad Levine as GM.
The only way I see David Forst moving from Oakland is if he were offered the presidency. I don't know that even that will be enough to move him, given the state of the franchise.
I really wonder why Crane didn't meet with Smith before he got the axe, especially when he did so with Ed Wade. To me, that is more a statement of how Crane viewed Smith's position within the organization. Also, don't automatically assume this means the Astros will do worse in arbitration hearings. The Rays have a pretty good track record there and they don't use Smith's consulting service. It's going to be harder to find someone competent to do it, but arbitration alone isn't enough to justify keeping Smith. Still a remarkable show of disrespect to Smith. I guess that's life in the Big City.
My favorite part of this decision? Justice's comment that Crane decided to fire Wade not because he was incompetent (like Tim Purpura), but to try and get someone who was above-average. That's what I want to see. Don't settle for good, go for the best. That's how you create a winning team again. Can Crane do it? I'm not sure, but all this certainly seems like a step in the right direction.
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If I were a GM candidate on Crane's list
I would demand a six to seven year contract at least. I agree with Olney that it’s going to take the better part of a decade to get the Astros back into the playoff mix, even with two Wild Cards. And that’s considering that the AL West looks like a ripe plum for the taking, beyond the Rangers.
The Astros need to commit to a GM with a solid rebuilding plan, and they need to stick to that plan. Start/Stopping every four or five years with new front office personnel isn’t going to get the job done. Overpay for the brains at the top, and give them the keys to the city. That’s the only way the Astros won’t turn into the Pirates or Royals from the ’90’s and ’00s.
Agreed
You’re going to have to make a strong commitment to get a talented GM. It also says that you understand the task at hand. I truly think that Drayton always thought this thing was fixable in just a couple years. They pissed away the last decade in terms of player development and we are now paying the piper for the next ten.
I like the Idea of Hinsicker as President and Levine as GM
That seems like a good recipe as you’re sorta getting the best (or almost the best) from bothe worlds. Hopefully why he fired Wade will prove to be true and obvious when we see who he picks up
by Its Gonna Happen on Nov 28, 2011 1:14 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Actually
Think about the transition that the Astros have gone through under Wade. He started with I believe THE oldest roster in all of baseball and an almost talentless minor league system. He has transitioned us to a very youthful team and about half the payroll that he started with.
That sounds doable but when you think we’re a young team now and 4 years ago we didn’t have a young guy to speak of…that’s pretty impressive. Having said that, I think that there’s better out there and hope we get it.
by Its Gonna Happen on Nov 28, 2011 1:32 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
while I agree, it’s easy getting young, it’s a whole different ballgame to get young and good. And I don’t think we’re anywhere close to that.
Very true
But none of the players we field today, minus Bogey (pitcher), were in the system when Wade came in. Now granted we just fielded the worst team in baseball, and didn’t have any significant injuries throughout the year, but we did trade away our two best players for the second consecutive year and some of these young guys have some really nice upside but were rushed too soon.
by Its Gonna Happen on Nov 28, 2011 2:26 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
+1
I’d love to see Hunsicker and Levine in charge.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 1:39 PM CST up reply actions
1. Olney paints a fairly negative picture of the Astros’ ability to attract a good GM. I agree that it will be tough to attract an existing GM, given the Astros’ situation. But I think the Astros can be a very attractive job for a talented and confident young assistant GM. The expectations for a quick turnaround are low, which means it’s not hard to exceed expectations. (Think about how quickly the perceptions of a very young Alex Anthropolous moved from low expectations to phenom GM.) I think the key is how much authority is given the new GM, e.g., ability to hire and fire front office people, minimal owner interference in player transactions, etc. A young GM who is confident in his abilities to build the team would view a clean slate as an ideal challenge to show what he can do.
2. The evergreen contract renewal provision in Wade’s contract raises a lot of questions. Were Postolos and Crane aware that the provision would kick in? (Crane’s people would have seen all of the team’s contracts, but who knows if they were looking for this.) If they were aware of it, why didn’t they ask McLane to cancel the automatic extension of Wade’s contract for 2013? And if they did ask, would McLane have done it?
I imagine that quality of the system is pretty low on the list for things GMs look for when moving teams, at least the type of GMs we would actually want. Quality of the owner has to be a lot higher. A guy who is willing to trust his people and give them the tools they need has to be a lot more attractive than some idiot who thinks any team is a veteran or two away from contention.
by seanbergmanrules on Nov 28, 2011 9:21 PM CST up reply actions
I need to be educated
What are the respective roles of President of Baseball Operations and General Manager?
Why does a team need both (especially since there is a team president, and an active owner))?
I’m thinking if Astros hire a great GM I could be president of Baseball Operations. Wheree do I sign? Let’s do lunch.)
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 28, 2011 5:00 PM CST reply actions
Well, think of the combo of Tal Smith and Ed Wade. I suppose the President gets to have more deep thoughts. The GM gets to do more of the detail work.
I think it can be a way of increasing the amount of talent in your front office. Theo Epstein was hired as President of Baseball Operations for the Cubs. He then turned around and hired the GM and Asst. GM of the Padres as Exec. VP-GM and Senior VP for Player Development.
Astros have recieved permission to interview Andrew Friedman
Reports Richard Justice of the Houston Chronicle.
Now this is exciting!!! Not only is Jim Crane determined to tear down the yellow colored, floral wallpaper covered, moldy, and disgusting walls of yesteryear, but it appears he wants to build a much stronger foundation than before in order to create a perpetually winning franchise in the future.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
Wow!!
Thats amazing, just thinking of the possibility of Friedman gets me excited for the Astros future.
It would also be a great way for Crane to build some goodwill with Astros fans
by maroonedTexan on Nov 28, 2011 8:00 PM CST up reply actions
Come on in Mr. Friedman!

It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
by BustaPozee on Nov 28, 2011 8:18 PM CST up reply actions 2 recs
I had the exact same reaction
Just the possibility of Friedman shows me the new ownership knows what they are doing. Patience will be tough, but decisions like this will make it easier.
Mark Berman also tweeted
MLB sources confirm the Astros have received permission to interview Tampa Bay Rays GM Andrew Friedman to become the club’s next GM.
by MadMartygan on Nov 28, 2011 8:11 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
If you get him for us, Mr. Crane, you and I are square.
by MadMartygan on Nov 28, 2011 8:12 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
I would lose it if we somehow managed to land Friedman. Imagine what the guy could do with an actual major league payroll?
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Nov 28, 2011 8:33 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
I'm still not getting my hopes up.
Friedman, according to many sources, is happy in Tampa Bay. Maybe throwing a ton of money at him will change his mind. I hope Crane ends up doing that.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 28, 2011 8:52 PM CST up reply actions
new division plays into it too
Gammons had a piece the other day, ostensibly about the Rangers, but more broadly about the AL West. With the hiring now of DiPoto in Anaheim, all the GMs in that division are new-school numberheads. Sure, the division doesn’t put the fear of God in anybody per se (e.g., Zduriencik building Seattle a little TOO literally in terms of pitching and defense), but clearly that division is 100% saber-oriented now…so Houston will be definitely up AGAINST that when they move, and currently I think it’s safe to say we are NOT anywhere close to the sabermetric frontier or edge or whatever you want to call it. I suspect Postolos and Crane “get” that, and it may be one explanation for the early boldness of their moves. It’s a shame it is having to be done so quickly, but as Mr. Coleman notes, this is Selig’s fault. We have to start looking ahead ASAP in any event.
And I’m sure if people like Levine/Hunsicker/Friedman etc. get hired, Heck et al. will be gone too, in short order. Sabermetric types (as you know) have had field days with how the Houston system prioritizes value in players, even now.
The upshot of Gammons’s piece is that pitching, pitching, pitching is one of the strengths of the division (obviously), and that it will continue to be that way for the foreseeable future. I don’t remember the details, but at one point Jon Daniels was quoted as saying that something like 23 of the guys on the 40-man were pitchers in Arlington.
Simplistically/at first blush, I guess this gives us some direction in terms of what to be emphasizing in the coming years (but maybe not to the extreme Seattle has recently).
Can’t decide on how all this impacts Mills yet. He may get sent off too?
None of the incumbents has done a horrible job by any means/I’m not rubbing my hands in glee at the propsect of these guys getting let go. But it’s still probably the most constructive way to go.
[Joined in ‘09, but obviously haven’t posted much…sorry…but it’s both an exciting and dreadful time for the Stros now and in some perverse way I find it more interesting than ever; I’ve been reading the site regularly, for sure, and learned a lot.]
by va que va on Nov 28, 2011 8:13 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I can't imagine Mills staying after the new GM comes in.
New ownership/president/general manager duo makes me think between them one or more of them are going to want “their guy” as manager. So it wouldn’t be surprising to see Mills gone sometime soon.
The bird is struggling out of the egg. The egg is the world. Whoever wants to be born, must first destroy a world.
by Stupendous Man on Nov 29, 2011 12:38 AM CST via mobile up reply actions
It's not like we need a new manager
Our team is bad. Let him manage to the end of his contract and THEN get a new manager when we have a good team.
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
If I was Jim Crane
and put that much money into a team, I would fire everyone as well.
It’s his money.
It’s his team.
It’s got to be his guys.
Living in Atlanta, the Falcons came in and did the right thing (yes, it’s a different sport, but it applies here). Find someone to run it the way you want it and put them in place on day 1.
Put the pieces in place that you want and cut a lot of salary.
While I’m more of a high school kid drafter, in this case, I would be going for college hitters ala the Washington Nationals and making sure that I had the right minor league coaches and managers in place to teach them.
Ideal Situation
2011- Astros hire Andrew Friedman as GM
2012- Joe Maddens contract runs out
Astros hire Joe Madden as manager
Unlikely but i can dream.
Necessary.....
……I’m not a Wade or Mills " hater" but wholesale changes were needed to counter the culture of losing that pervades the organization…..
by jkaflagg on Nov 29, 2011 12:31 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
I LOVE (wish I could put a heart symbol here)
That Crane basically pissed on Tal Smith. Hes been an untouchable boonon this franchise for yeeeeears, and his arb. business is a direct conflict of interest, and hes old – and he makes old uninformed decisions (Kvasinaka to name one) – and I dont like him – and he has shitty hair, and I’m so glad that old fart is gone!!!!
The new era is beginning.
by YohannDookeyblue on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 AM CST reply actions
crane, personnel, title contention
i think we could contend in 2012…not likely, but we could.HOW…..field a young team..with a more fixed lineup than in 2011…see what happens.. if we start doing ok…make a few adjustments…see what happens.. i do not agree with 4-7 yrs…nonsense…wade has pieces in place.. i would trade wandy and myers if possible and if we get a bunch in return… we got some of the best prospects from other teams…these are still in AA and AAA…all mills did last yr was play a bunch of different prospects… i was not impressed with his managing..but he was trying out players..that was his main goal…. crane has no money … couldnt even pay to buy the team..that is good in a way, cause he is forced to follow rebuilding plan of growing from within and cheaply….BUT WE HAVE A GROUP OF VERY GOOD YOUNG PLAYERS…SIC EM!! MIKE H

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