Some Initial Thoughts on the New CBA and the Astros' Rebuilding
With the Collective Bargaining Agreement (CBA) making significant changes, particularly with respect to acquiring amateur players, sports writers and bloggers have written a lot about how the "haves" and "have nots" will be affected.
Most, but not all, of the opinions view the changes to the draft and international signings as disadvantaging small market teams and teams that rely primarily on the draft to rebuild. Here is a sampling: "Why It's the Worst Possible System," "Baseball Sticks It to the Pirates," "CBA Draft Provisions Will Lessen Value of Franchises," How New CBA Provisions Could Alter Jim Crane's Plans for the Astros," "The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly of the MLB's New Labor Agreement." Super agent Scott Boras is far from an unbiased party, but Astros fans might take notice when he says that new franchise owners:
can no longer rely on the draft to improve their franchise in a major way. The GMs now have less flexibility, less ability to do it. It’s going to take longer to improve your team in a meaningful way.
After reviewing what we know about the new CBA provisions, I have been pondering how the changes that affect prospect acquisition may affect the Astros' rebuilding effort. I won't try to answer whether the provisions ultimately are good for baseball or not---that's a larger and more difficult question. I think that the new rules will decrease the impact of some of the rebuilding tools available to the Astros. But, frankly, I doubt that the overall effect significantly changes the Astros ability to rebuild. There are some unknowns, like how the rules will affect the behavior of amateurs, and some gaps in our knowledge of the details of the rules. So, I could be wrong, but my best guess is that the Astros' player acquisition strategy won't be hurt that much.
The caps on both draft and international spending will reduce the relative value of those avenues for building teams--somewhat. The draft inherently gives an advantage to losing teams (by virtue of the draft order), but smart front offices had found that this advantage could be increased by expanding investment on the draft and international signings. To some extent, the spending pool limits will flatten the advantage that some of the small market teams learned how to exploit. The spending limits will also reign in the ability of big market teams to use their money on amateur players, but teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have more resources to turn to other options, like acquiring major league free agents.
Although the Astros are in a rebuilding mode just like the Royals and Pirates, the Astros are not exactly in the same position. The Astros are not a small market team, and the Astros' market will support the use of additional options for player acquisition, like free agent signings, in the long run.
Furthermore, there is no indication that Jim Crane intended to undertake blockbuster spending on the draft. Perhaps some level of increased spending would have been expected, but I doubt that the Astros intended to spend like the Pirates did last year---the $17 million that the Pirates spent on the draft last year was the most spent by any team in the history of the draft. Crane has said that the Astros' revenue is declining and that expenses have to move in line with changing revenues. That kind of statment doesn't make me think that new ownership planned a massive splurge in draft expenditures. Given what we know, assuming high draft positions for several years, the new system will allot sufficient money to permit the Astros to significantly increase its draft spending; and it's doubtful that the CBA will substantially impede the Astros' draft plans. It's even possible that the CBA will improve the Astros' comparative position. The advantages of the new draft primarily will flow to drafting order rather than willingness to spend money. The Astros will have a draft order advantage in the next few years, but the gap between the Astros and other teams in willingness to spend will diminish.
Here are my thoughts on each of the provisions that may affect the Astros' rebuilding.
Amateur Draft (Rule IV)
The limit on the draft is an aggregate draft signing bonus pool for the first 10 picks. Based on drafting order and number of draft choices, each team will be assigned a total budget for the first 10 picks, and any team that exceeds the budget will be heavily taxed, both monetarily and through loss of future draft picks. Teams will also be effectively limited to no more than $100 thousand bonuses on draftees after the first ten rounds.
The players association did negotiate for some concessions which favor draftees. In exchange for buying into the limitations, the union pushed for higher aggregate limits than the previous slot recommendations. The aggregate bonus pool for all teams may be 50% higher than the total aggregate slot recommendations for MLB in 2011. For this reason, Baseball America said that the draft changes are not as "harsh" as "initially feared." Therefore, the Astros are likely to have an aggregate limit of $11 or $11.5 million in the upcoming draft, which should be high enough to sign the first pick and have enough left over to spend reasonable amounts on the remaining picks in the first 10 rounds . If the best player available for the first pick were a Strasburg or Harper "once in a decade" type player, the Astros would face difficulties signing the first pick and spending money on the later rounds. But at this point, the likely first pick candidates don't appear to be in that category..
The practice which will be severely curtailed: making bets on large over slot offers to prime players in the 2d to 10th rounds whose drafting position fell due to signability concerns. The Pirates and Royals were among the teams which made good use of this strategy, with signings of players like Josh Bell in the second round and Bryan Brickhouse in the 3d round. The Astros have paid over slot for some players in those rounds, but the amounts were more modest. Many commenters here at TCB may have been hoping that the Astros would undertake the Pirates' and Royals' strategy, with numerous over slot signings. They will be disappointed. But aggregate bonus pool limit may permit the Astros to be modestly aggressive on a few selected picks. Also, the Astros' tactic of offering players like Jacoby Jones a large bonus in the late rounds is likely to be a thing of the past.
For the upcoming draft, it's possible that the new limits would push the Astros toward drafting a college player over a high school player with the first pick. The college player will have few options to demand a bonus above the amount that the Astros have budgeted for the first pick. The high school player has more leverage and could threaten to honor a college commitment unless the Astros pay a higher bonus that threatens their spending on later draft rounds. Another possibility is that mostly college players and fewer high school players are selected in the 2d through 10th round, in order to maximize the amounts available for the first pick. In general, the tendency will be for the Astros to make more "safe" bets.
Arguably, the new system will place a premium on scouting and talent evaluation. More focus will be placed on the process of identifying prospects who will succeed. Some teams, like the Braves, have been good at talent evaluation without exceeding slot recommendations. Perhaps the strategy that Crane's front office plans to undertake will be centered on improving the scouting and evaluation budget. Because the Astros will not have the opportunities to amass draft picks and pay big above slot bonuses, the room for error in selecting draft picks will be smaller.
Competitive Balance Lottery
A lottery will be conducted to provide an extra 2d or 3d round pick to some of the small market and small revenue teams. The exact details regarding the teams which participate in the lottery are unknown. However, my guess is that the Astros are unlikely to benefit from the lottery. The lottery is composed of the lowest 10 revenue teams and the 10 teams with smallest markets. By most measures, the Astros are either a large or mid market team. So, the Astros are unlikely to qualify as a small market team. I suspect that it is also unlikely that the Astros will be one of the bottom 10 revenue teams. Based on 2010 revenues, the Astros would have to leapfrog five or six teams to be among the ten lowest revenue teams. Crane has placed a priority on marketing strategies that stem the team's revenue losses, and if those tactics are successful, that works against a revenue ranking in the bottom 10. In any event, the lottery will not occur until 2013, and it's speculative at this point to project that the Astros will receive an extra draft pick as a participant in the lottery.
The lottery slots are the only draft picks which are tradeable. Could the Astros benefit by trading for lottery picks? Possibly. The restrictions/conditions on trading the picks reportedly are complex. So this strategy will require smart analyses by the front office.
International Amateur Free Agents
This limitations on spending for international amateur signings are among the most controversial. The Yankees Analysts blog concludes: "Essentially, this will kill the IFA market as we know it." Since the Astros have spent considerable sums to open a new academy in the Dominican Republic, the Astros are in no position to pull up stakes and go home. The immediate impact on the Astros can be divided into two periods, 2012 and 2013-2015.
In the upcoming 2012 signing period, the Astros will be forced to reduce their current spending level on international free agents. Each team will be limited to a bonus pool of $2.9 million in 2012, with penalties (similar to the amateur draft) for exceeding the pool amount. When you consider that the Astros spent $2.6 million on Ariel Ovando's bonus, alone, it's clear that the Astros' international spending will be crimped in 2012. The Astros paid out $5.13 million for international signings in 2010 (the third highest in the majors), and, therefore, will face the biggest cutbacks in the upcoming year.
In 2013 and later, the teams allocation of bonus pool amounts will vary inversely with W/L record. If we assume that the Astros' continue to have a bad W/L record in 2013, the Astros international budget can increase significantly, probably returning close to the $5+ million level of 2010. Moreover, the Astros could enjoy a comparative advantage for international free agents in that period. As the Yankees Analyst blog suggests, the handful of premium international prospects are likely to gravitate to the teams with bad W/L records, because they will be the only teams with sufficient cap room to give out big bonuses. Teams like the Yankees and Rangers, which have spent heavily in the international market, will be hurt badly. They will have to search for other strategies.
Over the longer period, it's unclear how the international limits will play out. MLB is exploiting its monopoly power with this move--assuming that international free agents have no other options and no leverage. This assumption may or may not be true, depending on whether talented teenagers will train for other sports. For all we know, the situation could increase the Japanese NPB presence in this market. If the Astros begin to field a competitive team in 3 or 4 years, the team's international budget could face cuts again.
In addition, in 2013 and later, teams will be allowed to trade up to 50% of their cap space. If the Astros are very good at identifying inefficiencies in the cap space trade market, the team could gain an advantage, either by trading its own cap space or buying cap space from other teams.
Free Agent Compensation
The Type A and B free agent compensation system has been dismantled. Teams will now have to make substantial offers to their free agents in order to be eligible for draft pick compensation. Also gone is the use of mid season trades to obtain value from the draft compensation associated with prospective free agents. No longer will teams like Tampa Bay be able to stockpile large numbers of draft picks from free agent compensation. I think the changes to the free agent compensation system are unfortunate for low payroll teams. Free agent salaries will increase, as a result, making this the "plum" for the Players Association.
This change eliminates a strategy that has been used to good effect by some rebuilding teams. Potentially, this change can slow down the Astros' rebuilding effort. However, looking at 2013, when the change takes effect, it's unclear that the Astros currently have any players that would have qualified as Type A and B free agents. Perhaps Carlos Lee or Wandy Rodriguez could have provided free agent compensation under the old system, but that's iffy. So, it's not clear that this change realistically alters how the Astros would have benefitted from from free agent compensation in 2013. It does take the "Tampa Bay strategy" off the table. But we don't know if the new ownership group would have pursued that strategy or not.
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An excellent piece
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Nov 27, 2011 10:02 AM CST via iPhone app reply actions
Entirely necessary in this case
And welcomed, too.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Nov 27, 2011 10:43 AM CST via iPhone app up reply actions
Great read
Ive been going nuts with the holiday break in articles. It seems like the total amount allotted to a team to spend on the draft has to be flexible. A team that has 2 or 3 first round picks and a few sandwich picks should get more money to sign them than a team with just 1pick. So the budget should be calculated by adding all the slot recommendations together for each team’s picks. a team that has the first overall pick the 20th overall pick and a sandwich pick should have a higher budget than if they just had the first overall pick alone. A lot of the details aren’t official yet are they?
by ntn on Nov 27, 2011 12:09 PM CST via mobile reply actions
yes, the number of picks (and their position) will be taken into account in setting each teams’ bonus pool. It’s just that there won’t be as many opportunities to accumulate multiple picks. The free agent compensation draft picks will be relatively rare, because the conditions for getting these picks probably means that only the big name free agents (a Pujols or Reyes type free agent) will produce extra first round draft picks. The competitive balance lottery is intended to compensate small market teams for the changes to free agent compensation, and it will generate some extra 2d and 3d round picks. The teams that win the picks will get extra cap room, but if they trade the lottery picks, only 50% of the cap room accompanies the traded draft pick. There will no longer be supplemental draft picks. The 1st and 2d round free agent compensation pick will come from the signing team.
I will amend what I said about supplemental first round picks. It is possible that there will be some supplemental picks (for instance, if a team with protected first round picks is the team signing the free agent), but it is likely to be much fewer than we have seen in recent years.
Thanks for an interesting and very well written article clack
Curious have you done a piece on the Astros moving to the AL? Curious on your fandoms thoughts
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 27, 2011 12:41 PM CST up reply actions
No. I haven’t written an article on the AL move. I have posted a number of comments on other articles about it. In sum, I am upset by the AL move, particularly due to the way it occurred. I think it will extend the time table for making the Astros competitive, which should concern any Astros’ fan. But, at this point, there isn’t much we can do about it, and I will just try to move forward.
For what's worth I would have rather they moved the Brewers back to the AL and left you guys in NL Central
I’ve enjoyed watching Cards play Houston much more over the years. Hope your rebuilding years are few and you guys are competitive in the AL West.
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 27, 2011 1:33 PM CST up reply actions
Welcome and likewise
Out here
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 27, 2011 2:15 PM CST up reply actions
Also, rec'd
11 in '11, Check.
12 in 12, WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by I-Musial-ly-Am on Nov 27, 2011 12:42 PM CST up reply actions
The "Be Like Drayton" Rule
I’m still absorbing the rule changes (good job explaining them clack ).
It seems though that the new draft rules attempt to force teams to stick to the (modified) “Slot” guidelines like Drayton McLane did.
Hurt in all this are high draft choices and those drafted lower because of high money demands (and perhaps with college as an option) . All teams will be helped since the draftees’ range of expectations has been narrowly circumscribed.
Free agents will benefit. I read somewhere some draftees will pass on the draft and play independent ball so they can enter the organized ball as a free agent rather than as a draftee. Expect some change in the rule to the effect a drafted player who signs with an independent league or a foreign team is subject to the rules applicable to draftees after the first ten slots if the signed draftee signs with a team within three or four years of the draft signing deadline.
The most significant change to me is the change in the international market. Rationally one draft should include both domestic and international players. MLB didn’t go that route.
What I saw occurring the past few years was more money being paid to foreign (esp Latin American) signees such that (a) foreign players were soon to receive larger bonuses than Americans ; and (b) the owners must have been freaking out that they were paying wads of money to foreign players the quality of which they could have signed for pocket change five to ten years ago. Hence the change. The change benefits Houston in that signing foreign players will be more affordable. It hurts Houston in that Houston’s renewed investment in the Dominican gave tham a leg up on scouting and recruiting foreign players and that advantage will be curtailed some.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 27, 2011 3:16 PM CST reply actions
All good points, Joe. I think the one thing that improves this over the “McLane Approach” is that the caps will be significantly higher than the old slots—-so teams can spend more than they would if they were inclined to follow the old slot recommendation. Teams like the Astros, who might be inclined to improve their past spending but were never going to go crazy with spending, should be able to work within this system. I think the downside for baseball is that this system may result in more top athletes picking other sports over baseball.
I think agents for some of the best players will try to figure out how to game the system. I recall reading the idea that a first round type player might announce, before the draft, that he will go to Japan, independent ball, etc., if they is drafted…that he will refuse to sign if he is drafted. The player and his agent would hope that this discourages any team from drafting them so that he become an undrafted free agent. (After all, it’s not like a team could take him in a late round and offer a big bonus to him.) I have my doubts that this strategy would work; I think the odds are that some team would draft the player just to see if he is bluffing. If it ever worked, I’m sure that Bud Selig would get angry.
I like what you said about maybe the new CBA rules will make the Astros more likely to draft a college player with the first pick. I was thinking about this the other day, and I think that this very well could be the case. I’m sure more names and players will come out closer to the draft, but maybe that means the Astros target a Mark Appel in the upcoming draft. If Appel chose to decline the Astros offer then he would have to be the first overall pick again the next year to even have a shot at getting the same offer.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 3:17 PM CST via mobile reply actions
yeah, I am guessing that it might make Appel a more likely first pick. At the least, the Astros would have to feel very confident that a high school player really wants the money right now before they make him a first pick. Nick Williams, for instance, is already committed to the Longhorns. That could be a fairly credible threat if the Astros were negotiating with him over a first pick bonus. Some teams, like the Nats, have used major league contracts to give draftees higher salaries instead of supersonic bonuses. I don’t think I mentioned it, but that loophole was closed, because the CBA forbids major league contracts for draftees.
Even if Williams hadn't committed to UT, and chose to focus on the MLB draft,
I wouldn’t take him.
We have very few quality arms in our system. We need a guy like Appel, who has a high ceiling and a polished repertoire. Plus, he would be ready to contribute as early as 2013, depending on how he does in the minors. That would be great timing, as Singleton, Cosart and (maybe) Villar are expected to come up that year.
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 27, 2011 10:24 PM CST up reply actions
I know they have the first pick this year and that makes a huge difference, but the 11 or 11.5 million cap is more than double what the Astros spent on the draft last year. I would be happy if the Astros spent up to their cap this year.
I like what you said previously about hiring experts to study the hard slotting rules. I would love to see the Astros do this and get to the point where the new rules become a competitive advantage.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 5:46 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Also out of curiosity how do the new CBA rules affect players who get posted like Yu Darvish for instance, if he gets posted.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 5:51 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I don’t think the CBA changes the existing rules with respect to posted players. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that Japanese professional players would be subject to the international bonus pool (which is for signing amateur players). To some degree, the CBA could provide an incentive for big market teams to spend more on Japanese posted players, since the expenditures will be uncapped and untaxed.
Don’t see anything posted on TCB yet but Rosenthal is reporting Wade and Tal Smith are out. Mills future is still up in the air.
Well, Hallelujah?
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
I just saw that on twitter as well. Im sure a big deal will be made about it tomorrow.
I’m not for sure that its entirely fair in Wade’s case because he saw a major cut in payroll throughout his tenure. He made some bad decisions, but in some cases he also did not have much choice.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 9:49 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
George Postolos already named team president
That’s a big clue Tal Smith’s tenure as team president is ending (ended).
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 27, 2011 9:46 PM CST up reply actions
Any word on how good (or bad) Postolos is?
Or rather, how knowledgeable he is?
"Hakeem couldn't kick your ass cuz you were too
close kissin his!"- Sir Charles to Kenny Smith.
by bone31crusher on Nov 27, 2011 10:27 PM CST up reply actions
His background in mainly in restaurants and basketball
He’s a lawyer
Here’s all I know about him :
http://blog.chron.com/ultimateastros/2011/11/23/new-astros-president-postolos-ready-to-play-ball/
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 27, 2011 11:22 PM CST up reply actions
My mistake
I thought Tal Smith was team president but he is still listed as team President – Baseball operations with George Postolos as president of the the Astros .
Too many presidents for a major league team.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 27, 2011 11:19 PM CST up reply actions
Well here’s to change. Now who do we get? We know whoever it is won’t be a woman of child bearing age or an African American…so that just leaves…just about all the execs in baseball. Maybe crane finally found his niche.
by ntn on Nov 27, 2011 10:04 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Richard Justice tweet
Per twitter.
“Astros won’t be firing Brad Mills, according to those with knowledge of Jim Crane’s thinking. GM Ed Wade likely gone. Tal Smith may retire”
I don’t know if Mills is the right manager for this Astros team. He is said to be a good communicator and clubhouse guy which is nice, but with the amount of youngsters that the Astros will likely have and his willingness to stick with the veteran players even on a bad team makes me wonder if he is the right man for these Astros now.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 11:13 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
However, with the team the Astros have, a manager’s impact may not be that great anyways.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 11:14 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Also, with respect to Mills’ playing time decisions, we don’t know the extent that he was carrying out Wade’s instructions.
Very true. Wade did seem to have a fondness of Jason Michaels also, so that could have had something to do with it.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 11:37 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Chronicle reports Wade and Smith OFFICIALLY Fired Sunday night
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Nov 27, 2011 11:27 PM CST reply actions 1 recs
I guess so. The press is expecting meetings Monday morning so why not take care of the hard stuff Sunday night.
I hope Crane has already had a decent amount of dialogue with candidates he considers for the job, and that they can wrap up the gm search process quickly.
by conroestro on Nov 27, 2011 11:39 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Here's a unified place to discuss the firings
http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2011/11/27/2591444/jim-crane-fires-ed-wade-and-tal-smith#comments
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Nov 27, 2011 11:56 PM CST reply actions
Finally read the article. My thouhts.
I waited until lunch break today to really read through this, so I could digest it without the accompaniment of dogs and toddlers running around while I tried to read it on my phone during the holidays. Great article, clack. It’s a good breakdown of how the CBA might affect things, but it seems to me that you’re starting from the assumption that bonus demands and IFA prices will stay constant. If they do, then everything you suggest will likely happen.
However, parts of the CBA were constructed to bring down the recently escalated costs of signing draft picks and IFAs. The interesting question (in my opinion) is the likelihood of the success of this CBA in doing that. The NBA and NFL both are trying to do the same thing with their CBA’s as well. Players that got a $2.5MM bonus as a #8 draft pick (Springer) may in 5 yeas only be receiving $1.5MM. If this is the case, then it probably won’t have much affect on the quality or order of players drafted during the Rule 4 draft at all.
(Note, I’m not convinced yet that the new CBA will bring down bonus demands, but I think it’s likely. As clack points out, High Schoolers always have the option to go to college. However, if the option is to go to college on a scholarship and wait until you’re eligible for the draft again, won’t your bonus be lower then, since now you’re entering the draft as a college student with no leverage? You allude to this in your article. So if the High Schooler says, “I want more than $1.5MM, I’m going to college,” then three years later he may now find that the offered bonus is only $1M, and he’s lost out on three years of salary in the meantime. I’m guessing because of that, we won’t see many more High Schoolers “blackmailing” the drafting team with a college commitment than we do now. The way around all this are the independent leagues. I suspect a few more players will go independent rather than face the draft, in order to demand a higher free-agent salary after a year or so in the indies. I don’t see that happening often though, because unless the player is beyond elite, the player will be leaving money and valuable experience on the table simply to spite MLB. But it’s all guesswork on my part.)
For IFA’s, most of these are poor kids from third world countries. The only reason guys like Aroldis Chapman get the bonuses they do is because MLB allowed it. There should be a market correction because of the CBA to bring IFA bonuses down to slightly less ridiculous levels. The Japanese market is different, because these guys are professionals already. I don’t see that market changing much either. If they want to come to America they can, but since there’s only been 1-2 impact Japanese player in the last decade anyway, it’s probably a good thing that this CBA is protecting teams from overspending.
Proofread my post, but not the subject line. Obviously that should say "My thoughts."
Lunch break’s over kids! Back to work!
As I said in my article, predicting the behavior of draftees is difficult and could change what we expect. I think that the CBA will bring down overall league spending on the draft, or at least curtail continued high escalation in the league’s total draft costs. However, some teams will experience potential increased spending (mostly those teams which tended to stay close to recommended slots) while others will experience large reductions in their spending. This is why the CBA may give the Astros a relative advantage. Whether the aggregate quality of the draft stays the same in the long run is unknown. Some analysts predict that the best athletes, who can be stars in multiple sports, will be more likely to pick sports other than baseball, ultimately reducing the talent level of the draft.
As far as high school players, I would be hesitant to predict the mind of a 17 year old. I think they are particularly susceptible to agents (oh, I mean, “advisors”) and college coaches whispering in their ear. For high draft choices, I think teams have to be really, really certain that the high school player will choose to take the money. The tolerance for errors in drafting will be much thinner under the CBA. It’s one thing to say that a teenager should or probably will accept the money over going to college; it’s another for a team like the Astros to take a chance on blowing the first pick of the draft because the 17 year old thinks he would like to be Big Man on Campus and believes his agent, er, advisor, when he tells him that he can get more money than the Astros’ offer after college. Assuming that the aggregate draft pool will escalate for inflation over time (I’m not sure if it will, but I assume the union would insist on this), it’s possible that the player will be offered more after college if he lands in the same draft slot. Maybe the high school player shouldn’t take that risk; but on the other hand, the Astros can’t really take the risk either if there is any uncertainty about the ability to sign the player.
I like the fact that the CBA only establishes aggregate caps on draft budgets, rather than specific caps for each draft position. This allows teams to use different strategies in their drafts. For some teams (particularly with a lower first round pick), it might make sense to skip signing the first round pick, which gives them an extra first round pick in the next year, and then devote all of the first round money to out spending other teams in rounds 2 – 10.
I think the caps on international free agent signings will definitely push down the aggregate spending on international players. It can’t do anything but that. Whether that means the pool of players will remain the same but everybody just gets much smaller bonuses or whether the composition of drafted players changes is a question mark. MLB wants the former result. But some prospect analysts think that the premium players will still get paid big bonuses, but that the mid and lower level of international players will be left out in the cold. In other words, under this view, the number of drafted IFA players will decline, because all of the money will be spent on the cream of the crop. It’s an interesting strategy question for teams. If you are the Yankees and you only have, say, $1.5 million to spend on IFAs, do you sign 15 lessor prospects for $100 K each or do you use all of your bonus money for one high ceiling IFA prospect?
I suggest in the 3d paragraph that a team could decide not to sign the first pick and apply the cap space to its other picks. As more details of the CBA come out, that strategy cannot occur. A team that fails to sign a round 1 – 10 draft pick cannot use any of the unused cap space on other draft picks. The cap space associated with that pick is removed from the team’s bonus pool. A team can sign a draft pick for a small bonus and use the remaining cap space on other picks.
don't know jack about baseball besides the basics.
with that being said, why will the astros take so long to rebuild? don’t they only need 9 guys ready to play on gameday?
- Feeling the five stages of grief since 2002.
"It's either gonna make you a man or a coward. One of the two. I'm a be a man. I ain't never seen a coward, heard a coward, coward not in ma vocabulary." - Lawrence Vickers
by NoSafetiesNeeded on Nov 28, 2011 1:22 PM CST reply actions
If the Astros were willing to spend huge sums of money, they could simply buy a team of free agents. That could build a competitive team quickly, but that approach costs a lot more than Crane is able to spend. The cheaper way to rebuild is to draft amateur players and develop them in the minor leagues for several years. That’s the way that Crane wants to go. Given the attrition rate of young minor leaguers and the average number of years that it takes to develop drafted players into major leaguers, the process will take a long time, particularly since the existing high minor leagues are lacking in talent.
4-7 Years?!
I’m not buying that it will be 2015 at the earliest that Houston will be competitive or field a winning team. It’s highly doubtful that payroll will sink below $50M before it starts to climb again, and after this year, there are virtually no contracts on the books (assuming Wandy is dealt). The high minors/major league teams already feature young players like Altuve, Villar, Paredes, Castro, Schafer, Wallace, Martinez, Lyles, Cosart, Clemens, Oberholtzer, and Norris. That combined with heavy payroll flexibility means that the bottom should have been 2011. I’m not expecting a World Series in 2012, but 70 wins should be attainable. After next season, an even bigger influx of talent should mean that 80 wins is a very realistic goal for 2013. While 80 wins isn’t a “contender”, it’s certainly a competitive team.
Altuve, Villar, Paredes, Castro, Schafer, Wallace, Martinez, Lyles, Cosart, Clemens, Oberholtzer, and Norris
I just don’t understand why people think that’s something to be proud of. Every major league team except the White Sox has prospects that good or better. There’s not one player there who projects as either an ace or a 3rd or 4th hitter on a major league playoff team. The only one that has a LONG shot is Cosart, and many experts agree that the path to late inning reliever is just as likely as the path to major league starter.
Follow-up
Of all of those players, only Norris would find a home on a playoff team at this point, and Norris would be that team’s fourth or fifth starter.
I really don’t like being Debbie Downer, but come on….expectations need to at least try to match reality.
That said, I really really really hope I’m wrong and you are right. :)
It’s not what they are right now. It’s what they will/could become. I was making a generally positive statement about how the team can field a competitive roster by 2013:
C- Castro was a top 100 prospect before his injury and most people still think he pans out into an average everyday catcher.
1B- Brett Wallace’s stock may be falling but there’s still hope; he was a top 100 prospect in ‘10. Kody Hinze has potential, although isn’t really on the radar nationally yet.
2B- Altuve would be a top 100 prospect had he not been rushed and profiles as an average to above average everyday 2B. Speed and defense don’t slump.
SS- Villar has seen many top 100 lists and everyone agrees that the ceiling is there for him to be as good as any SS there is.
3B- Paredes put up good numbers and while he is probably due for some regression, the ceiling is there for a Robinson Cano type career.
OF- Schafer was a top 50 prospect and has every bit of the ceiling Michael Bourn had when we acquired him. Bogusevic and Martinez may not be 30 HR guys but both can be plus defenders and adequate 5-6 hole hitters. Martinez would be a fringe top 100 guy had he not been promoted.
Pitching- Lyles would be a top 100 prospect had he not been rushed and everyone still projects him as a good #3 pitcher. Norris has already shown he is a good mid-rotation starter (#3 on an average team, #4 on a playoff team). Clemens could be a Norris clone. Obie has a #5 floor with a #3 ceiling. Cosart has ace potential and was a top 50 prospect in all of baseball this year.
I’m not saying all of these guys will reach their ceilings. I just saying that there is talent in the upper levels and in the next 1-2 years many of them will become viable players at minimum salaries. The $30M+ in available payroll should be able to adequately fill any remaining holes.
Am I saying Houston will be WS champs in ’13? No. But is a competitive, 80 win season feasible? Yes.
by Snake Diggity on Nov 28, 2011 5:51 PM CST up reply actions
Follow-up
Let’s take it a step further. Imagine a 33% hit rate on the prospects I listed above (and given that they are upper minors/majors prospects, it could be argued that the hit rate will be much higher) and NO other prospects develop in time. So let’s say Castro, Altuve, and Villar hit their ceiling, while ALL the rest of the position players (Wallace, Martinez, Bogey, Schafer) totally bust. Further, let’s say Lyles, Norris, and Cosart hit their ceilings, and the rest (Obie, Clemens, et al) bust. Here’s a reasonable roster for 2013 (with projected salary):
C- Castro $400k- reaches ceiling as a plus defender hitting .280 w/ 10HR
1B- Carlos Lee $8M- brought back on a 1yr deal since Wallace busts.
2B- Altuve $400k- reaches ceiling as a plus defender hitting .300 w/10HR and 25 SBs.
SS- Villar $400k- reaches his ceiling as a plus defender who hits for average, speed, and power.
3B- Keppinger $4M- bring him in on a 2 yr deal since Paredes busted.
RF- Carlos Quentin $10M- 2 yr deal
CF- Bourn $7M- Bring him back for $7M/yr on a 4 year deal.
LF- Luke Scott $3M on a 2 yr deal
So here’s your $30M lineup:
Bourn CF
Altuve 2B
Quentin RF
Lee 1B
Scott LF
Castro C
Villar SS
Keppinger 3B
Is that a world series lineup? No. Competitive? Certainly.
On to pitching. So we’ve imagined that everyone busts except Lyles, Norris, and Melancon. Here’s your $30M pitching staff:
SP1: Cosart $400k
SP2: John Danks $12M
SP3: Lyles $400k
SP4: Norris $400k
SP5: Joe Blanton $5M
Relievers: Carpenter $400k, Escalona $400k, Rodriguez $400k, Abreu $400k
Setup: Lopez $400k, Melancon $400k
Closer: Huston Street $10M
Again, Championship-caliber? No. Competitive. Yes. And that’s with a $60M payroll.
by Snake Diggity on Nov 28, 2011 6:16 PM CST up reply actions
Royals and Pirates are NOT rebuiliding!
Both have owners who only care about profits, and are willing to sacrifice winning for money.
If they are rebuilding, what year is this for them in the rebuilding process: 10?
I think the Royals can be a reasonably competitive team in the near future. They have tremendous young talent just now arriving in the majors. The Royals have one of the best farm systems in the MLB. The Pirates have made good strides in the last couple of year in building their farm system. Whether the Pirates will continue to fail like they have in the past, I don’t know. But the Pirates replaced their front office two years ago and devoted tons of money—the most in the major leagues—to acquiring amateur talent last year. The Royals have been spending big on their farm system for the last several years. To be fair to both teams, since the same personnel aren’t running the show that were in charge ten years ago, I would wait to see how their more current rebuilding effort fares.
It’s interesting to compare Ed Wade to Dayton Moore. His first many seasons, Moore was vilified as the Worst GM Ever. But now, five years later and with the strongest minor league system in baseball for two years straight, people see the Royals as the next hot team. I wonder – if Wade had had early round 1 draft picks for as long as Moore had them, would the Astros be in the same position, and would we be talking about how Wade saved the Franchise?
McLane forced Wade to patchwork the team for so many years that by the time we finally got to rebuilding, it was too late for the team and for Wade.
That could have been us!!


























