Should The Astros Bring Back Roy Oswalt And Brad Lidge?
by David Coleman on Oct 26, 2011 10:07 AM CDT
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PrintThe Astros face an interesting problem. They finished with a league-worst record and weren't even competitive for much of the season. They traded away their only viable, marketable stars at the trade deadline for prospects. They have an increasingly frustrating situation with ownership that may continue to be Drayton McLane or may be the newly minted Jim Crane. They also suffered through one of the worst attendance seasons since moving to Minute Maid Park.
In short, the Astros need a jolt from somewhere to re-energize the fan base.
Most fans talk about that jolt coming through free agency. Yesterday, many of you speculated on what moves Houston could make and how that would help them be competitive. I know Crane is not going to go out and sign Albert Pujols, CC Sabathia and Jose Reyes in the same winter. Much as I'd like to see it, he's not interested in building a team that way, or so he said at the press conference when the sale was announced back in May.
So, what could he do to still energize fans while keeping to a cost-benefit analysis? How about bringing back either Brad Lidge or Roy Oswalt?
Neither would be a popular choice, because they will both cost money and have lost effectiveness in recent years. As much as I'd like to see Roy bring his veteran presence and work ethic back to the starting rotation, I get the sense he's looking for a multi-year deal and I'm not sure the Astros should commit to that.
No, if I had a choice of those two, I'd say the Astros go after Brad Lidge for the bullpen. They wouldn't have to sign him longterm after the season he's coming off of, but he'd be a tangible link to the past for fans who are jaded by this current collection of rookies and role players. Lidge wouldn't have to be the closer, but might bring some veteran stability to a very young bullpen.
Would he be taking a spot that could be manned by EDR or any number of younger guys? Most certainly. Would his signing be contingent on Brandon Lyon being shown the door? Almost without a doubt. But, who would you rather have, Lyon or Lidge?
Lidge is a lottery ticket, but just like Grady Sizemore, he's a good buy. Plus, he has the added benefit of being a good PR move even if he doesn't pan out. If he pitches badly, Houston can still keep him around next season to provide a familiar face to fans. That kind of marketing is worth a one year contract on a team headed for another losing season.
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I’ve seen the Roy O / Lidge question come up on a number of Astros’ blogs. I tend to agree with David. Lidge seems like a more likely choice, that is, unless his salary gets bid up too much. The Astros could use a veteran in the bullpen. Lidge is smart and has a good clubhouse presence, which would make him a stabilizing presence in the bullpen. At this point, Lidge shouldn’t cost too much, because his stuff isn’t what it once was. If the price is reasonable, I would have no problem with signing him.
When Roy was traded, he talked about coming back to the Astros after his contract was over. So, I suppose there is a possibility that he would be interested. But my guess is that he still wants to go to a contending team. The only way I see an Astros’ reunion happening is if Roy will retire after next year and wants a swan song season with the Astros.
by clack on Oct 26, 2011 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Yes.
I was formulated a response while reading the article, and then I scrolled down to see you’ve said everything I was thinking.
by Mr. Imperial on Oct 26, 2011 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
oswalt lidge etc
we really do not need either one… starting staff looks good… bullpen… a lot of guys got tryouts….last season… also… melancon hasnt shown that he is a bad closer…so far, he looks good…95mph fastball…good slider, curve…he is effective…. lyons is good…maybe we would trade him… oswalt is tempting…his record last season was really very good… low 3’ s era.. about same as sabathia…had back problems in houston and again in phillie…he bounces back….i would offer him $8m a yr for two yrs…if he doesnt jump for it, so what…i never liked lidge, mental case, but, i guess lots of closers are mental cases…i would like to see what sosa could do as closer…mike
I stopped reading after “Lyon is good”
by Woodlands'stro on Oct 26, 2011 3:05 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Grady Sizemore is the most interesting name mentioned here. Is he a Free Agent for sure?
Oswalt wanted a trade out of Houston so he could try to win a World Series on a good team. I don’t think he’d come back here unless the monetary compensation was overwhelming.
The Indians have a $8.5 million option on Sizemore. The odds are pretty good that they will not exercise the option and he will become a free agent.
by clack on Oct 26, 2011 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
To me, bringing Oswalt back makes sense for both Roy and the Astros, here’s why.
I’m sure Roy is going to look to sign on with a contender, but if that opportunity does not present itself then the Astros could be a good fallback plan. He could play half a season, and then be traded at the deadline to a contender for a prospect or two. For Roy there would be less uncertainty as he would at least be getting traded to a team that is in the thick of a playoff hunt, and it would give the Astros a veteran in the rotation that could be spun at the deadline. Even if he doesn’t generate much in the way of prospects, something is better than nothing.
Also, Oswalt is in a similar situation as Berkman. He is coming off of a down year mainly due to injuries, and could have a lot to prove. His agent will of course say all the right things, but said that after going to a different doctor Roy O finally got the back situation put behind him, thus the reason he had a decent second half.
I’m for bringing him back for the mere fact that they have something to trade at the deadline. At worst the risk is Oswalt is injured and doesn’t generate any interest. If that happens its not a monumental loss.
by conroestro on Oct 26, 2011 3:53 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I read somewhere Philadelphia may re-sign Roy Oswalt and (and maybe Brad Lidge)
at reduced salaries.
As I mentioned in a previous post, I half expect Roy to retire as he indicated a few years back.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 26, 2011 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Should they? Probably not. Will they? Probably not. Would I like it if they did? Only if it was in tandem with improving the offense AND they didn’t have no trade clauses.
The more I think about Houston’s offseason and approach to free agency, I believe any player they sign should have the following traits:
-No players on contracts longer than 2 years.
-No players on contracts with no-trade clauses.
-No players at positions that would block a big-league ready younger player.
If Roy would come in on a 1 or 2 year deal without a no-trade, it could be a boon for Houston. It would re-generate fan interest, bolster the rotation from below-average to average or slightly-above average, and could bring back a hefty batch of prospects if he does well and Houston is out of contention. The same could be said for Lidge.
That said, I don’t think the FO/ownership will expand payroll for these types of moves. I’ll be surprised if they sign any free agents outside of Barmes.
I dont particularly see any FA moves happening until Lee, Lyons and Myers come off the books. If we do get sent to the AL West we are going to need some bats for sure and a starting pitcher. Sign him to a one year deal and tell him he will be traded to a contender of his choice.
Doubt it ever happens but I would be cool with it.
by conroestro on Oct 26, 2011 4:29 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
That is true. It takes some of the guesswork out of it. At the very least the team he would get traded to would be in the playoff hunt.
by conroestro on Oct 26, 2011 4:51 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Off topic but
Game 6 of the world series has been postponed. I was reading on chron.com and one of the comments said that the game should be moved to Milwaukee. I thought that was funny.
by conroestro on Oct 26, 2011 4:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
I wouldn’t mind either of them back if the price was right.
This station is non-operational
IT'S TEBOW TIME!
On the twitterverse
I doubt Astros will sign either
They’ve cut too many ties with the past and signaled they are looking to the future.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 26, 2011 5:50 PM CDT reply actions
Off-Topic...
According to Alyson Footer, because the WS game is rained out tonight, Tony LaRussa will watch Moneyball. Ha. I wonder if that will change his decision making in the World Series.
by clack on Oct 26, 2011 6:09 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
I would rec that, but you've been getting too many recs and it's bothering me, quite frankly
Rec worth stuff right there
It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt.
by BustaPozee on Oct 26, 2011 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
I can’t believe that anyone would prefer to go to a team specifically so they can be traded to a better team to win a championship. Who wants to win that way?
by Its Gonna Happen on Oct 26, 2011 10:10 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Isn’t that effectively what Roger Clemens did with his two half seasons?
by pel on Oct 27, 2011 9:59 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I think there's a big question this article is missing...
And that is: If you were Lidge or Oswalt, would you WANT to return to the Astros (the worst franchise in baseball) for the 2012 season?
I’m sorry, but if I’m either of those guys (both of whom are on the downsides of their career), I’m going anywhere I can to WIN A CHAMPIONSHIP.
The Astros, as much as I hate to admit it, are just a horrible mess right now. The team might have some diamonds in the rough (with Parades, Martinez, Altuve), but I don’t think it would be unfair to call the talent of this team questionable—at best. Another 100 loss season is a very likely possibility at this point, so why would they want to sign on with a team that almost certainly won’t compete?
Almost none of the guys Oswalt and Lidge played alongside are still on the team. (The exceptions are Wandy, Q, and Lee.) So, really, this is not the same team these guys left.
Most importantly, though, the ownership situation STILL has not been resolved. If I were a player, that would concern me just a little.
So, hate to burst everyone’s bubble here, but if I’m either of those guys, I would only sign with the Astros as an absolute last resort option.
I think David is assuming that the free agent signings occur after the ownership situation has been resolved. I think part of the premise is that Crane will look for something to do which creates a “buzz” or “positive feelings” among fans. I agree that Oswalt and Lidge may prefer to go elsewhere. On the other hand, I’m not sure if the demand for their services will be good enough to get the salary they think they “deserve”. So, both perhaps could use a comfortable landing spot where they can increase their value.
by clack on Oct 27, 2011 12:16 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Bring them back. In fact, spend all that Selig hush money on free agents who are high probability trade candidates.
Selig gets his AL move, Crane gets attendance boost from fan interest watching our first-half mini-all stars team, and then we get another treasure trove of prospects in July.
It could be a plausible strategy. Crass, but then good will was tossed out when an AL move was extorted out of Crane.
by pel on Oct 27, 2011 10:08 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Here’s an idea. Just throwing this out there. Pick up lidge OR oswalt, but not to pitch. Have them take carlos lee’s spot in the lineup. Might even add some pop to the middle of the order.
by HTown80 on Oct 27, 2011 10:35 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
Like it or not, Lee may well be the best hitter on this team right now.
by clack on Oct 27, 2011 12:12 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Can anyone give Carlos some credit?
The guy batted .275 with 18 HR and 94 RBI’s while playing a very good first base. He had a great bounceback season and I’m hoping that will continue in his contract year.
by Patrick Harrel on Oct 27, 2011 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions
I would sign Berkman to be our DH in 2013
I would not sign Oswalt or Lidge. I bet both sign back with the Phillies, at a reduced-but-not-that-reduced rate. Both take the haircut to make another WS run.
For the short term, I think the Astros do not want any more veteran pitching and will more likely want to bring pitching prospects along.
If Drayton was still the owner, I could see him forcing his GM to sign Oswalt and Berkman to one year contracts at the end of their careers. I have no idea if Crane will that like minded.
If I were the Phillies, I would not spend any significant sums of money to re-sign Oswalt . Oswalt is a No. 4 or 5 starter on the Phillies, and the Phillies have competent replacements for him. What the Phillies need is more offense, particularly with Ryan Howard likely to be out for a half year or so. If I were them, I would use Oswalt’s salary to sign some offensive reinforcement.
by clack on Oct 27, 2011 12:20 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe the Phillies need a first baseman and not Roy-O. Huh, Carlos Lee plays 1stthe base I think. Wade can continue his legacy of traded with the Phillies.
Just kidding.
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 1:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Sorry, the grammar was brutal on that one.
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 1:37 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Since we are on the subject, below is a link to a pinstripe alley article today speculating about Roy. They are guessing that Roy is worth about a 2front year contract at 25 million total. Maybe that’s if he plays for the Yankees, but to me that seems way to high. Any thoughts on what it might take to get a deal done with Roy for next year?
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 1:40 PM CDT via mobile reply actions
2/25 seems high for a pitcher like Oswalt who missed so much time with injuries last year. That’s not to say that the Yankees wouldn’t pay it if they really wanted him. (But my recollection is that the Yankees were not that high on Oswalt when he was traded in 2010—partly due to their hesitation to put a high value on NL pitchers.) Some of the commenters say that 2/$20 is more reasonable for Oswalt. That probably is more like it. Starting pitchers on the free agent are expensive, and $10 million/year could be the going rate for a mid-rotation starter. Since the Yankees need a LHP, I wonder if they would prefer C.J. Wilson.
I pay quite a bit of attention to the Yankees, mainly because they are the market setters, and I also have a friend who is a Yankees fan so I try to give him a hard time when I can. Pure speculation, but from what I read from some of the commenter’s and writers on pinstripe alley is that they are not that high on CJ. Many of them seemed concerned about the huge increase in his workload over the past few years.
Some of the writers on pinstripe alley say that it makes more since for the Yankees to focus on CC, and sign a short term cheaper free agent this season since the free agent starting pitching class will be much more impressive after the 2012 season. If they can make due this year then better options would present themselves next year.
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 3:13 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
I agree that Wilson is overrated a bit. But the daily press covering the Yankees, like the NY Post, had been acting like Wilson is almost a cinch to become a Yankee. After some weak outings in the post season this year, they began to back off (which is pretty silly to let a couple of poor post season games drive the opinion). The funny thing is that C.J. Wilson and Wandy Rodriguez are almost identical pitchers over the last two or three years. If anything, Wandy looks a tad better. And I think Wandy probably has better aging ability, because his repertoir doesn’t require him to throw as hard as Wilson. Yet the Yankees don’t like Wandy because they think he can’t play in the AL East. (And that goes back to a single game where he was rocked in Yankee stadium.)
I have seen a number of Yankees’ writers say that the team needs another LHP in the rotation. Sometimes the fans still ask if Andy Pettitte can be enticed to return. (ha!)
If so, then I hope that CJ has some high bidders (Rangers) which makes the Yankees become disinterested and look on the trade front for a quality lefty. I have seen reports where they would be interested in trading for Jon Danks. If that didn’t work out then maybe a Wandy trade would.
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 4:17 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
They have plenty of prospects. I was surprised they didn’t make more of a push for Wandy at the deadline last year. There band aid fixes to the rotation held up last year, but I figured they may make a run at him with an eye to the future.
by conroestro on Oct 27, 2011 4:19 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions
i don't see why anyone would defend lee's #'s
The only way he lands a job after next season is as a dh on a crappy al club (please not the astros, please not the astros). His stats have gone down each season with us. I honestly see el caballo riding off into the sunset after next year. Maybe he gets an invite somewhere, but I doubt it. He’s getting older, and noone is going to sign him to a multi-year deal with his work ethic. I like the guy, honestly, and had high hopes when we signed him. He really dissapointed me.
by HTown80 on Oct 28, 2011 1:03 AM CDT via mobile reply actions
because of how bad everybody else was
Karate? The Dane Cook of martial arts?
by Rocket94 on Oct 28, 2011 1:40 AM CDT via mobile up reply actions
Most of his offensive stats improved in 2011 over 2010. According to Wins Above Replacement (WAR), Carlos Lee was the 5th best LFer in the NL last season. He had a rebound season last year. He was a valuable player; but he wasn’t worth his salary.
?
The guy was worth over 10 million last year. While he may not have been worth his full salary, he was a very, valuable player, and you could make the case that he was the most valuable on the team.
by Patrick Harrel on Oct 28, 2011 9:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Roy Oswalt...
I think his years with Houston are already at a close. Word of mouth has always been “If there is one guy that would retire and not miss the game it would be Roy (Oswalt). Astros fans have seen him struggle with injuries, I just don’t think forking over cash right now is the best idea. Especially because we don’t entirely know what ’A.H. Selig” has in store for us, after all we could be moved into the American League. Which for me being less than an hour from Orange County. I am going to start putting in for over-time, because I’ll be at every Angels – Astros game I can.
I'm Moose Panini
Both
Based on the years they had last year, neither is goign to get the kind of bucks they did on the lst contract from anyone. If they were, the Phils would have picked up their options. Roy is worth $8 MM a year on a 3 year deal. Lidge probably less than half that.
Nope
Honestly why bring these guys back? They were traded for a reason. Let’s save some money and start getting younger guys for this squad, cause it seems like every year we sign some of the oldest players out there. We will always love Roy down here, but please don’t bring him back
by Dawakat on Oct 28, 2011 11:56 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
They were traded for good young prospects
if we sign them for decent deals and they outperform those deals, we can once again trade them for young prospects. Rinse and repeat!
by goingforthecorner on Oct 29, 2011 3:05 PM CDT up reply actions
The likelihood they have one more stellar season in them is somewhere between slim and none.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
Astros Recovery for 2012
How about this idea, to whom it may concern?Get Craig Biggio to come back as manager, Jeff Bagwell as the 3rd base coach and maybe recently retired Andy Petitie as the pitching coach.All of those 3 might replace the futility the team has continually gone through since the World Series collapse a few years back.
Get Albert Pujols!
Yes, Pujols would be the Astros most formidable HR threat since Jeff retired.
So you want to pay a guy who is already in his 30s a $100mil 10 yr deal? Please see futility of
Carlos Lee as to why this would be a bad idea.
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
trade bait
at some point, the astros will use trade bait to improve… b lyon is high on that list…last yr we developed the bullpen…and it is probably ok for any purpose…do not need lyons…someone else will want him… we still have prospects in minors that havent had a tryout at major league level…some we got in trades…i would stick with what we have for now, start season, see how we do… if we do real well…and are in contention after say two months….then explore making a move…i would stand pat for now… magnus
downs
m downs is proven star type player… why doesnt he play regularly… 2b would be good spot… or 1b if we go into al…….paredes, barmes, downs…clee… pretty good infield jason castro… mike h
Well this post is closer to a complete sentence... :)
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
its almost like he intermittently comes out of a coma while typing
"This is a simple game, you throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the the ball, you got it?!"
by StrosSouth on Nov 1, 2011 8:53 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
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Astros lead the series 1-0
| Fri 05/25 |
WP: Lucas Harrell (4 - 3)
SV: Brett Myers LP: Clayton Kershaw (4 - 2) |
3 - 1 win |
|
Houston Astros
Saturday, May 26, 2012, 9:10 PM CDT Bud Norris vs Chad Billingsley Mostly clear. Winds blowing out to right field at 5-15 m.p.h. Game time temperature around 65. |
||
| Sun 05/27 | 3:10 PM CDT | |
NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Cincinnati
|
25 | 20 | .555 | 0 | Lost 1 |
|
St. Louis
|
25 | 21 | .543 | 0.5 | Lost 2 |
|
Houston
|
22 | 23 | .488 | 3 | Won 4 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
21 | 24 | .466 | 4 | Won 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
19 | 26 | .422 | 6 | Won 2 |
|
Chicago
|
15 | 30 | .333 | 10 | Lost 10 |
(updated 5.26.2012 at 6:14 PM CDT)
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