Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dana White Announces Koscheck vs. Hendricks for UFC on FOX

The Crawfish Boxes' Top 30 Prospect List

Here it is. This is the list we teased in the podcast earlier today. Below is the grading scale for those of you not wanting to partake in our audio-fest. I also added some quick notes on the top 30 guys in the system. We ended up ranking 63 players, but I felt this list should have a cutoff somewhere, and 30 seemed a good, round number.

It's also important to note this is a bit different than just arbitrarily making up a list of the best players. We each graded every prospect, averaged those grades and then sorted based on highest to lowest average grade. So, it's basically a hybrid of what John Sickels and Baseball America try to do.

Letter Grade Number Grade Description
A+
10

A rare, mythical beast

A 9 Top 5 In Nation
A- 8 Top 25
B+ 7 Top 50
B 6 Top 100
B- 5
C+ 4
C 3
C- 2
Non-Prospect 1

 

The List (compiled as a group effort by OremLK, clack, Subber10, timmy and me)

1) Jordan Lyles, RHP, Round Rock: Grade - 7.60; Notes - You know him, I know him, we all are aware of Lyles. The question is, will the Astros save his arm next season or will he be pitching before dozens at MMP by June?

2) Ariel Ovando, OF, Dominican Academy: Grade - 6.63; Notes - Him, you may not know. In fact, none of us know a whole lot about Ovando. We've seen about 30 seconds of video on him showing off an impressive array of tools, but none of it was in a game environment. Still, Ovando has the tools to be one of the few superstars in the system.

3) JD Martinez, LF, Corpus Christi: Grade - 6.50; Notes - As Tim put it in the podcast, JD just rakes. That's why he's this high on the list, despite not really having a great power ceiling. For reference, his "disappointing" CC numbers include a .350 wOBA...

4) Mike Foltynewicz, RHP, Greeneville: Grade - 6.00; Notes - The big, projectible righty actually beats out the draft pick taken 11 picks before him. Not sure if that'll prove a good choice at the end of next season, but it's a start.

5) Delino DeShields, Jr, 2B, Greeneville: Grade - 5.50; Notes - Not much time in the minors for DDJ, but he did get to show flashes of his elite speed and hit for a pretty high average. Lots to like heading into 2010.

Star-divide

6) Jay Austin, CF, Lancaster: Grade - 5.40; Notes - While he did not light up Lancaster like Jon Gaston before him, Austin put together a mighty fine season for one so young. His speed has never been more in evidence than this one and he's shown promising power numbers to boot.

7) Vincent Velasquez, RHP, Greeneville: Grade - 5.40; Notes - V-Dub has outperformed Folty on raw numbers, but some concerns about his arm injury history keep him lower on this list. A raw guy who just began pitching full-time recently, Velasquez will need some time to develop.

8) Ben Heath, C, Corpus Christi: Grade - 5.10; Notes - You read that right. A fifth-round pick who set Penn State's single-season home run record in 2010 made it all the way up to Double-A in the same year he was drafted. That's faster than Jason Castro. That's faster than Dallas Keuchel. That's faster than any player in the 2009 or 2008 drafts. I don't think this is a "Brandon Wikoff gets promoted because Round Rock needed an emergency infielder." Heath was getting at-bats after his promotion. And he was hitting. That's legitimate, boys and girls.

9) Dallas Keuchel, LHP, Corpus Christi: Grade - 4.90; Notes - The soft tossing lefty from Arkansas out-performed expectations in his first full season of professional baseball in one of the most difficult parks for pitchers.  Solid strikeout rates, walk rates, and especially groundball rates make him a very solid prospect.  His numbers aren't as great in Corpus but he'll likely get the call to go AAA next season.

10) Jio Mier, SS, Lexington: Grade - 4.90; Notes - Last year's top pick failed to live up to expecations he set last year. But, he managed to pull his numbers close to respectability with a solid second half of the season. Bobby Heck isn't worried since he's hitting doubles and drawing walks.  He has the tools he just has to put it together mentally.  He very well could do that next season in Lancaster after an off-season in which he knows exactly what to expect from a full-season of ball.

11) Austin Wates, OF, Tri-City: Grade - 4.88; Notes - The rare five-tool college player, Wates had some doubts about his abilities, which dropped him to the third round in the draft. He hasn't missed a beat since joining Tri-City, though, providing a heck of a spark for the ValleyCats recent playoff run.

12) Jonathan Villar, SS, Lancaster Grade - 4.80; Notes - The only minor leaguers the Astros got for Roy Oswalt, Villar was recently named a post-season All-Star in the South Atlantic League for his time with the Phillies affiliate. He's a toolsy shortstop who put up decent numbers in limited time at Lancaster. Will probably start 2011 in Corpus.

13) Jose Altuve, 2B, Lancaster: Grade - 4.80; Notes - Who doesn't love Altuve? The diminutive second sacker hits as soon as he rolls out of bed. In his first real challenge in full-season ball, Altuve got promoted from Lexington to Lancaster and still did well. He's probably above DDJ on the second base depth chart right now, only because he's more advanced.

14) Tanner Bushue, RHP, Lexington: Grade - 4.70; Notes - Fell a bit this season, not due to his lack of good performance, but due to an infusion of talent into the system. Bushue's only concerning characteristic is a lack of fastball velocity. His curve is really good, though, and there is talk of him learning a plus-changeup as well. Could break out in 2011.

15) Koby Clemens, 1B, Corpus Christi: Grade - 4.50; Notes - The Little Rocket hit more home runs for Corpus this season than anyone but Hunter Pence. Clemens' 26 bombs were second only to Pence's 28 in 2006. Think about what Pence did in 2007 for the big league club. No one thinks Clemens has a shot at the majors next season, but given a major injury, he's positioned himself in line for consideration.

16) Mike Kvasnicka, 3B, Tri-City: Grade - 4.50; Notes - An early hand injury really derailed the start to his pro career. I didn't love this pick when the Astros made it and I'm not sure I like it better now. Still, Kvasnicka is a professional hitter who could get better with time.

17) Telvin Nash, OF, Tri-City: Grade - 4.20; Notes - Another guy who was much higher last year, but is probably rightly ranked on this list. Nash finally got around to showing off the prodigious power he has, as one of three Greeneville Astros to post a slugging percentage over .500. Power is there, but he strikes out way too much. Is raw in much the same way Jay Austin was in 2009. Could see a jump in his performance at Lexington next season.

18) Tom Shirley, LHP, Tri-City: Grade - 4.10; Notes - His season was cut short by injury but he impressed while it lasted.  This years ninth round pick posted stellar strikeout numbers as a starter but his reliance on his great fastball will likely relegate him to the pen in the future.

19) Ross Seaton, RHP, Lancaster: Grade - 3.90; Notes - It's been a rough season for Seaton, but that's what happens with any pitcher in Lancaster. His strikeout rate improved but it's still a concern.  He also improved on his groundball rate and ground outs, which is very difficult to do in his home park.

20) Brian Bogusevic, OF, Round Rock: Grade - 3.80; Notes - Now on the big league roster, Bogey threatens to move off this list altogether. May make the 2011 squad as a reserve outfielder.

21) David Berner, RHP, Lancaster: Grade - 3.75; Notes - BernNotice is one of my favorite Astros farmhands. He did what few pitchers have been able to do: thrive in Lancaster. He's got a great mentality and is the highest-ranked reliever on this list. He's advanced enough that he could contend for a bullpen spot by the end of next season.

22) Albert Cartwright, 2B, Corpus Christi: Grade - 3.70; Notes - While his Lancaster numbers were great, his Hooks' tenure was short of disastrous. Cartwright may just need time to adjust to the level of play. It'll be interesting to see where he goes in 2011.

23) Jonathan Gaston, RF, Corpus Christi: Grade - 3.70; Notes - Last years phenomenal home run threat proved the effect Lancaster has on hitters as he struggled early in Corpus. Although, the very athletic outfielder put up very solid numbers in the second half of the season.  He should start off next year in Round Rock where he'll have to prove if he is capable of being an every day player.

24) JB Shuck, OF, Round Rock: Grade - 3.70; Notes - Can a slap hitter thrive in the majors? Shuck joins Ichiro and Juan Pierre in testing that theory. Certainly, Scotty Pods gives him hope. Shuck should vie with Bogey and Bourgeois for a backup outfield spot next spring.

25) Tyler Burnett, 3B, Tri-City: Grade - 3.63; Notes - His plate discipline is outstanding as well as he is pretty solid defensively.  He'll be able to continue to post solid on-base numbers because he draws walks but he's going to have to post better power numbers in order to move up this list.  He's still young enough to develop more power.

26) Michael Feliz, RHP, DSL Astros: Grade - 3.50; Notes - Feliz had to serve a 50 game suspension for PED's so he only pitched in three games but still managed to post a great strikeout rate.  But, he has an electric fastball with solid secondary stuff.  Look for him to post great numbers next year in a stateside league.

27) Chris Wallace, C, Tri-City: Grade - 3.50; Notes - Yeah, he's a U of H alum. Yeah, he's a catcher showing off power. But, is Wallace for real? That's the question we need to answer before he moves up on this list.

28) Evan Grills, LHP, GCL Astros: Grade - 3.50; Notes - He's Canadian, eh? Not much to look at with his stats. Looking forward to seeing him in the system next year.

29) Jose Cisnero, RHP, Lexington: Grade - 3.50; Notes - Little has been written about Cisnero this season, but the right-hander had a very good season for Lexington. He led the team in strikeouts with 126 and tied for the lead in wins with eight. I hope they send him to Corpus next season, as he's got a good shot of doing well there as a 22-year old next season.

30) Danny Meszaros, RHP, Round Rock: Grade - 3.50; Notes - A surprising coda to this list, Meszaros was recently suspended for taking a banned substance. Subber did some excellent research to pin down why Meszaros got popped (upshot: it wasn't for anabolic steroids). He made it all the way to Round Rock this season and seemed poised to make a September callup before the test. There were rumors that he had hit high 90's with his fastball this season. I saw no evidence either for or against that, but I will say Meszaros could come back next season to give the Astros another viable relief candidate should someone get hurt.

Comment 60 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

It's a solid list

I’m biased, of course, as one of the contributors, but I think it works well and I don’t think the lists of other publications like Baseball America or Minor League Ball will be much different.

You could monkey with specific rankings depending on what you value more from a player, and personal intuition. But I think most people would agree that this paints a good rough picture of the state of the farm system.

It was fun working on it!

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 1:20 PM CDT reply actions  

Great job!

Agree with much of it. One philosophical debate – potential or results – which wins?
My bias for results would probably bump Ovando, Kvasnicka, and Grills down some. I’d probably have Perdomo on there somewhere too. I agree that Mier is still our top SS prospect, though he and Villar are close, as your list indicates.

Thanks for the great food for thought.

by pacbellpilgrim on Sep 7, 2010 1:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Funny you should mention that…that debate between potential over results is a big part of our second part of the podcast, which will be posted tomorrow.

I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson

by David Coleman on Sep 7, 2010 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

Good job.

My thoughts:

Too high:Kvasnicka, Berner, Burnett.
Too low: Nash

Players who would make my top 30 that didn’t make this list: Luis Cruz, Pat Urckfitz, Matt Nevarez, Chia-Jen Lo, TJ Steele, Jorge De Leon

Others that deserve consideration/mention IMHO: David Carpenter, the flurry of arms in short-season ball, Kody Hinze, Brandon Barnes, and Jake Goebbert.

by Snake Diggity on Sep 7, 2010 2:01 PM CDT reply actions  

If you’re putting Cruz, Urckfitz, Nevarez, Lo, and Steele on your 30 who are the 5 players coming off?

by Timothy De Block on Sep 7, 2010 2:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

I can see the case for berner not being on there but thats it. Nevarez’s control has been terrible which brings him down. Lo and Steele have been injured. Cruz was injured for a bit too and not sure how he’ll play up De Leon is at a low level and transitioning, need more time on him. Carp is too old for his level, next year will decide a lot on him. Hinze is borderline on this list. Goebbert is the same way, not much power though beyond doubles. Barnes is a product of Lancaster. He’s a fringe prospect.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 2:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Grills, Feliz, and Berner would not make my top 30. Lo, Steele, and De Leon would be my 31, 32, and 33 I guess.

by Snake Diggity on Sep 7, 2010 3:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Awesome

I love top 30 lists for the astros minor leaguers! I think the greatest thing is the debate over who needs to actually be on the list… haven’t been able to do that in a good while. Hopefully some of the higher levels will do better next season with the influx of younger players. I think we have some real question marks coming up too. But i’ll agree with some of the commenters on where is TJ Steele, Luis Cruz, Chia-Jen Lo, Jonathon Meyer(would you rank them right behind the top 30?).

I can’t wait to see where Dan Adamson, Bryce Lane and some of the other guys this season could possibly be ranked next year a la JD Martinez.

Also, any idea where some of our DSL guys would go? I know you have Ovando and Michael Feliz, but we still have Jose Montero, Richard Rodriguez and Enderson Franco. also the younger guys in the GCL in Jose Perdomo, Luis Ordosgoitti and Jose Fernandez.

Any idea if they continue on with a more liberal pathway for some of the players? I’d love to see Ben Heath stay in AA.

by GhostOfGlennDavis on Sep 7, 2010 2:21 PM CDT reply actions  

also… just wanted to say good list by the way!

by GhostOfGlennDavis on Sep 7, 2010 2:21 PM CDT up reply actions  

The level of play is so low in the DSL and GCL its hard to put a lot of stock in what they are doing. I view Jose Montero right there underneath Feliz though.

Meyer has to show a little more than he has. Next year needs to be a big year for him.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 2:53 PM CDT up reply actions  

Meyer, Mier, Paredes, and Goebbert are 4 guys who will have a real chance to shine next season in Lancaster. I expect big rebound years from all of them.

by Snake Diggity on Sep 7, 2010 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions  

Goebbert actually had a good season, so it wouldn’t be so much a rebound for him as just another bound. The main knock on him is just that he was a little old for his level. I agree about Mier and Paredes. I’m not so sure about Meyer. When a corner bat has that bad of a track record, it usually doesn’t signal good things to come.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 3:57 PM CDT up reply actions  

T.J. Steele

We discuss him in one of the upcoming podcasts. The short version is that we are considering him a borderline busted prospect because he has a terrible approach at the plate, has never performed outside of Lancaster, and is always injured.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 2:27 PM CDT reply actions  

Erik Castro

I completely forgot about him with all of this. He performed well last year but injury kept him out this year. It’ll be interesting what the organization does next year with him. He only adds to the talent at 3B of Burnett, Kvasnicka, and Meyer who will likely demand significant playing time at 3B next season between Lancaster and Lexington.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 2:55 PM CDT reply actions  

Personally, I’d say after Lyles, the next 4 are pretty interchangeable (I have a different order, but the same four) and probably all strong B- types though some could be borderline B’s I suppose. It is a probably a slightly sub par top 5, but at least it is mostly comprised of upside talent.

After the top 5, I think this system is really pretty shaky for the moment. None of them are very good top 10 candidates. I think you guys are overrating some of the new prospects, but being quite fair (maybe even a little pessimistic about the prospects that have been around a little while). To me, guys like Jay Austin, Jio Mier, Tanner Bushue, and Dallas Keuchel are the next best group and all pretty interchangeable, along with maybe only Austin Wates from this year’s draft class. I can see these guys being in the back end of the top 250 overall. I don’t quite see Vazquez being in that class, and I definitely don’t see Heath being anywhere near that. I like Heath, but I would say he is a C/C+ guy at this point, not a B- guy.

The fact that I could see your 14th ranked player as the 6th guy just as easily, is definitely not a good thing to me. But with 11 of the 13 guys you ranked after the top 5 being very young players drafted fairly highly, and 4 of the top 5 being very young, I would think that next year’s top 10 will look quite a bit better. For now, this group is definitely outside the top 20 minor league organizations. But there is some reason to be optimistic.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 7, 2010 4:01 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree that a lot of the top 15 are interchangeable in ranking. I’m not sure it’s such a bad thing though as you are implying. They are high upside guys who are not top 100 material because they have something to prove, not because they have substandard ceilings.

Some will bust, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see next year be a big season for the farm system with some huge breakouts to go with the inevitable bad seasons from some of them.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

They are definitely young, so the order will shake itself out over the next year or two probably. But I wouldn’t call many of them (outside the top five) high ceiling types. The highest ceiling outside the top 5 isn’t even that of an above average player. I do think that among that group, maybe a bunch could become solid enough everyday players, but it is hard to pinpoint which ones will even do that at this point.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 7, 2010 4:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

Here are the guys I would consider "high ceiling", by which I guess I would mean a reasonable ceiling is as at least an above average everyday regular (3+ WAR) or middle rotation starter:

All of the top five
Jay Austin
Vincent Velasquez
Ben Heath
Austin Wates
Jonathan Villar
Jiovanni Mier

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 4:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Hmmm

I mean, it is a subjective term. I basically agree, though I’d be shocked if Villar becomes an above average shortstop (actually, if he is able to be anything but a defense-only back up i’ll be surprised, but that is another argument). Those guys could definitely become average. That doesn’t scream high upside to me. Granted, they all could be playing 2B/SS/CF/C, so a lack of huge offensive potential doesn’t mean they don’t have upside.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 7, 2010 4:51 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right

Defensive value (and to a lesser extent baserunning) does have to be accounted for in judging ceiling. Take Michael Bourn for example. His OPS last season was an uninspiring .738. But according to FanGraphs he produced 4.3 WAR.

If you think something similar to that, maybe .750 OPS and almost as good of defense/baserunning is Jay Austin’s ceiling, then yes, I would consider that a high ceiling player.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

For the record

I don’t think Heck has done a bad job or the Astros are really messing up their drafts or anything. I mainly just think it is tough to judge a lot of these young guys, since they haven’t proven much, and in some cases have been slightly on the disappointing side, and also their ceilings aren’t All-Star type. And I like DDJ…I’d rank him #2 overall.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 8, 2010 9:19 AM CDT up reply actions  

I beleive Vasquez belongs in that group, especially if you consider Bushue in that group. He’s projectable and very athletic. He already has a low 90’s fastball and every pitch is raw because of how little he’s pitched. But, they all project to be good pitches.

John Sickels also recently said in AQA that Keuchel could be a B- prospect.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 4:39 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think...

The 5 I listed (which includes Keuchel) are all C+/B- types…basically in that 200-250 range. So I agree with John that he “could be a B- prospect.” I think Velasquez is just not quite there. It wouldn’t shock me to see him in a top 250 list though, I just don’t quite see it right now. He’s the highest ranking prospect for me ouside my top 10 that I listed.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 7, 2010 4:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think we’ll be somewhere between 15-20 overall ranked between the farm systems. I think Heck has done an amazing job with what he’s done so far and who theyve taken. Anyone have any info on what’s up with Barret Loux?

I think we’ve built a good foundation with what we’ve done and it’s trying to grow from there. I can’t wait till they get the players who were playing short season ball into their full season clubs.

by GhostOfGlennDavis on Sep 7, 2010 4:37 PM CDT reply actions  

15-20?

The Astros system has improved, quite a bit (considering it was one of the worst last year), but a team with one B+ prospect and then probably 6-7 B- guys … don’t really see that as top 20.

by toonsterwu on Sep 7, 2010 10:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Great to have a list like this. I like many others appreciate the effort and really enjoy the resulting debate. I would really like to know why Luis Cruz doesn’t make this list. His FIP is (significantly) lower than both Bushue and Cisnero. K/9 is higher than Bushue and though lower than Cisnero his BB/9 is much much lower. 99 innings pitched is not so much less than the other two despite the injury mentioned as well as being the only one of the three to throw a complete game. He’s a bit younger than Cisnero, a bit older than Bushue- True, he is short, but we are all about the little engines that could (altuve) as long as they produce right? What am I missing that keeps him far below his peers, let alone off this list?

by kmccrary1210 on Sep 7, 2010 5:41 PM CDT reply actions  

Being small as a pitcher is a bigger challenge than for a hitter. Scouts say that an arbitrary line for being able to create a downward plane on a fastball is about 6 ft 1 in. He is short of that by four inches. Thats pretty significant. There are still plenty of cases for guys who are shorter than 6ft 1 who are very succesful, very notably Roy O. It’s just a steep hill that he’s gotta climb. His track record isn’t great either. He pitched well two years ago but wasn’t last year either. So, the combination of a poor track record, zero projectability, and not having a knack of for groundballs doesn’t give a whole lot to get excited about beyond his numbers. He’s done phenomenal as far as numbers, but he’s going to have to show it on a higher level.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 6:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Right… he’s one to watch, but being 5’9" is a huge red flag for a pitcher. I’ll get more excited if he does well at Lancaster (or Corpus Christi as the case may be).

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 6:14 PM CDT up reply actions  

Whats the scouting report on Cruz?…I mean how fast can he dial up his fastball?

by PeteyNhtown on Sep 7, 2010 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

Sorry...one more thing

Why does Mier get promoted? Despite short bursts of productivity, he looked (statistically anyway) overmatched this year. Even if he does have a rebound year next year in Lancaster, how can we trust the offensive output of any player there? Shouldn’t he have to produce, not just merely show signs of someday producing before he gets promoted?

by kmccrary1210 on Sep 7, 2010 5:46 PM CDT reply actions  

He’ll get promoted because while he seems to be overmatched, I wouldn’t say that. The fact that he knows what he’s doing at the plate and can hit doubles indicates he’s not overmatched. He’s just struggled but has shown signs of improvement since the all-star break. He’s drawn good reviews in the field so he’s ready to move on. Keep in mind that his numbers are suppressed my a pitchers league and IMO, its a confidence thing, which Lancaster will only help with.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 6:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ovando

Has he actually played any games? I like his potential, but shouldn’t we wait until he plays a game before ranking him so high? I think somewhere around 15 seems more appropriate for now.

Great list by the way. My only suggestion would be to add an estimated MLB debut year.

by jmike on Sep 7, 2010 7:45 PM CDT reply actions  

Same criticism could be made for a number of the prospects on this list. It’s not like 12 games (Wates) or for that matter 18 games (DDJ) really tells you much more than just looking at scouting reports or video. We chose to rank the guys we felt deserved it based on their tools and upside even without performance data.

Look at it this way, the Astros were willing to gamble almost $3 million on Ovando, the largest amateur signing bonus in club history, on the basis of scouting. What can it hurt to do the same in ranking him as a prospect. Maybe it’ll come back to bite us, but it’ll be quite awhile before we know for certain.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 8:11 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice List

Unfortuantely Im gonna have to agree with auclairk-guy and say that I think we’re overvaluing our prospects, and in that regard we might just be overvaluing the drafts we’ve had for 3 years now. Realistically it looks like we’ll finally be out of the bottom of the barrel as far as farm rankings go, but we’ll still be in the mid twenties. Now I know it takes time, but the rangers turned their farm system completely around in less than two years.

I know you say we have to build depth, true, but it seems that all we’ve been doing for 3 years is building depth with “meh” replacement level players. We haven’t spent the money that we should have and we havent gone after “star caliber players”, we’ve gone after ’signable" players. Bobby Heck even said it himself.

We just accept it, and say well they signed alot their guys, when most of the guys they do sign are replacement level players. I guarantee you if we had a draft like the BoSox did, and went after guys that have HUGE ceilings, star caliber players – didnt worry about the $, and just went for the best player on the board, not the most signable.

Granted, Ovando is a step in the right direction. But, why didnt we sign Sano in 08 then? Hed go a long way to boosting our system. Hopefully DDJ, Folty, Kvanswhatsa – (REEEEEACH). Prove me wrong. Wates looks good so far. BUT, I for one am a little dissapointed of the state of our farm system 3 years after the apocalyptically bad 07 draft.

Also – where’s Dan Adamson? You can answer that last.

Also- Y’all do a great job on this site. I check it every day, still looking for a Barret Loux signing.

by Logan Haire on Sep 7, 2010 9:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

That’s your opinion and it’s respectable, but this is our opinion. You can read all of the Baseball America and Baseball Prospectus and whatever else that says DDJ and others are huge overdrafts that aren’t that good, but I’m going to trust a guy who has a great reputation among the scouting departments of major league teams. Let’s be serious here, if all of those guys were as great at scouting as all the readers out there make them to be, they would have jobs right there with Bobby Heck. I’m not saying they are idiots, because those guys are good at what they do and their opinions need to be respected, but I still place Bobby Heck’s opinion over theirs. DDJ has been said to have a great ceiling by more than Heck and a lot of teams wanted to draft in the first round. Folty should have been drafted but because he’s not from a higher profiled baseball state and school, he was scouted as much. I don’t just accept what Heck and Wade do, I trust it and agree with it…except for Kvasnicka.

You can’t just claim that a team like the Rangers did it in two years and expect that. The fact is that they got lucky for a lot of their prospects to work out. But look at all those catching prospects who everyone thought were so great. Ramirez and Salty have done great.

Dan Adamson did great for awhile but hasn’t been average since (except for the walkoff tonight). The fact he’s older for the level and such a late pick, he has more to prove.

We really do appreciate the compliments, its been a lot of fun doing this stuff for everyone to read.

I expect Loux to sign with a team sometime this week.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 10:20 PM CDT up reply actions  

Building Depth

While I agree that the Astros have taken some signable players in the past, Bobby Heck and the scouting department have identified athletic type players, see Jay Austin, Delino DeShields Jr, Austin Wates, Jordan Lyles and others. Most of the players, if not all the players drafted were considered athletic type prospects, in some cases in more than one sport. Heck is definitely building depth in what was a barren wasteland of a farm system. The fact of the matter is that two years after taking over, Wade and Heck have built depth on the farm system that didn’t exist before.

I was one of the biggest detractors of the Astros drafting Castro in 2008, I was one of the guys yelling that we should have drafted Smoak. Two years later, we have a young, good starting catcher in Castro and a promising first baseman in Brett Wallace. There are players making big strides in the minors and could contribute to the Astros contending in as few as two seasons.

I’m sure you’ll remember that the Astros were lambasted by almost every scouting website and publication after the 2008 draft, especially concerning Castro and Lyles. After how well they’ve performed, many of those same publications were eating their words. There is a reason those guys write for a publication and not building farm systems for major league teams.

As for the Rangers, the Texeira trade netted them some very good prospects from the Braves. Also keep in mind how long the Rangers were woeful (thus drafting higher) and the time it took to build that farm system. Once Jon Daniels took over, he brought a different scouting philosophy, one that the Astros seem to have taken as well. Remember as well that it looks like McLane finally realizes that the Astros are not going to contend and the budget for drafting and player development has gone up with the increased spending in the draft, international signings and building the academy in DR.

Not every big name in the draft will pan out, and although the Astros have at times made some shrewd moves with some players, most of them all have promise. Lets give it some time as the players from the last couple of drafts start to ascend through the minor league system and develop into major leaguers, lets give Wade, Heck and the scouting department some credit for what they have accomplished thus far.

by IronM21 on Sep 7, 2010 10:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Well said.

Drafting is not about throwing money at the problem or just picking whoever Baseball America likes best. Yes, money helps, but it helps a lot more to be smart and to have a consistent, effective philosophy. I believe Heck is and does.

by OremLK on Sep 7, 2010 10:45 PM CDT up reply actions  

Nice IronM21

Very well said. I’m actually getting tired of all this BA is always right stuff. So many people think whatever they publish is gold and is law. I’m proud of how Heck is building this system in a smart and efficient way. Nobody can point to anything pick and say it didn’t work out well. They can say we could of drafted someone else but at that time nobody is was saying that particular name. They were saying another name that hasn’t worked out as well as Castro like Smoak. People complain about the Mier pick and that Mike Trout should have been taken. Nobody said that last year. Every one is smarter in retrospect but Heck is has done nothing for anyone to doubt him.

by Subber10 on Sep 7, 2010 11:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Short Season Guys

Caution – I admire your enthusiasm for the short season recent draft picks. Beware the curse or Mitch Einertson, Josh Flores, Eli Iorg & Ryan Mitchell. All of these guys were highly rated (not as high as the present group but highly rated) and are out of baseball and only one reached AAA.

Personally, I would rate Villar above Mier (Small nit)

Among you catchers, I think you have overlooked Frederico Hernandez. He is 22 and has been solid since his call up to AA and has the family pedigree (cousin is Ramon Hernandez). He doesn’t have the power of Heath. But IMO belongs in the top 2 or 3 catcher discussion in the org.

by AppyAstros on Sep 8, 2010 7:28 AM CDT reply actions  

I didn’t follow the others as close, but it was pretty obvious that Einertson was never going to pan out. His strikeout totals in Rookie ball would have made Ryan Howard blush. I think he’s a great lesson about sample sizes and unsustainability (take note people who pencil Chris Johnson into out 2014 lineup).

by seanbergmanrules on Sep 8, 2010 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Then Don't Look at Nash's K's

Einertson struck out 72 in 276 at bats his rookie season.
Nash has struck out 71 times in 240 at bats. In his second season.

Best outfielder in Greeneville – not named Deshields was Emilio King. there is a reason a guy who hits .210 plays almost every game of a season. Usually it is a $$$ investment. In this case, it is potential talent. He has one of the best arms I have seen in the Appy in a right fielder. I have heard scouts talked more positively about him than about Nash.

by AppyAstros on Sep 8, 2010 3:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Einertson’s frame didn’t fit the power potential he showed that season. Nash has the frame to support that power. Nash’s power is much more likely to translate to full season ball than Einertson’s. Einertson also had that whole drug thing. Although, Nash’s huge frame could eventually limit him to 1B.

I’ve been wondering what it is about King that kept getting him playing time. His frame indicated that he could be pretty athletic. But King has the same strikeout concerns. 60 in 204 at bats is actually worse than Nashs.

by Subber10 on Sep 8, 2010 4:19 PM CDT up reply actions  

Agree

Nash’s body is not a typical baseball build. He also doesn’t take good routes to balls in the OF. He was regularly substituted for late in games. He will have limited potential in the OF. He is a 1B in the making. His arm is not good either. Not accurate or powerful.

King made 14 assist this season in short season ball. Only 2 other OF in the Astros minor org had more. Gaston 15 at CC & Barnes 19 at Lancaster. He tied Gaston for the most double plays by an OF (5). He will have to improve the hitting but he may be the best outfielder in the system.

by AppyAstros on Sep 9, 2010 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

You are right that these guys very well could tank. But, as they stand right now, their potential stands out. They are guys who we would monitor more closely because they have the ability.

Mier had a final number of 4.9 and Villar had a 4.8, so they are very close. I like Mier better personally because Villar’s strikeout rate is alarming. Plate discipline translates better than a lot of things and in that regard, Mier stands out higher. I honestly think Mier’s issue is confidence and he’ll come into next season and put up some great numbers.

As far as Hernandez is concerned, he could probably go somewhere in the top 50, but I wouldn’t put him up there in the top 30. Someone actually asked John Sickels the day before yesterday about him and his response was that he’ll probably never hit enough to play in the majors. He’s hit well in CC but the sample size is too small. If he does it again next season, they yeah he’d be in there.

by Subber10 on Sep 8, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions  

Hernandez vs. Wallace + where's Nidiffer?

Seeing both of them play, II would put Hernandez above Wallace in every category except power. Their numbers when they both played in G’ville are very close except power and age. Wallace was 22 this year and Hernandez was 20. I don’t see Wallace as much of a prospect.

I also rank Nidiffer’s bat above Wallace. He is probably just an organization player being a NDFA but he is hitting well at two levels this year.

by AppyAstros on Sep 8, 2010 3:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wallace is probably a non-prospect, but what he’s done deserves notice. Being that he’s just drafted and is doing it without professional coaching bodes well for him. Hernandez has been in the system longer and hasn’t been able to hit really. Wallace hasn’t had the instruction, and therefore his more raw. If Wallace doesn’t perform next year, he’ll drop significantly.

Nidiffer has shown a great bat. But, he’s 23 at the least defensively demanding position. 1B, unless absolutely are destroying and have projection, typically don’t make these kind of lists. Clemens does because he’s closer to the majors and has shown power at more levels. Plus, like you said he’s a NDFA which means he has a steeper hill to climb and has to really has to perform much higher than someone drafted.

by Subber10 on Sep 8, 2010 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions  

So we’re expected to have 4 top 100 prospects next season? I find that doubtful. Lyles for sure, and we may that many (or more) at the end of next season, but I think we will have, at most, 2 of BA’s top 100 for 2011.

by Snake Diggity on Sep 8, 2010 12:39 PM CDT reply actions  

B guys can be in the top 100. But, because of the amount for B guys, not all make the top 100. Ovando, Folty, and Martinez are top 150 guys though. One of them could make into the back end of a few top 100s though. I know one commenter has JD in his top 100 at minor league ball.

by Subber10 on Sep 8, 2010 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

I expect Lyles to be a top 50 (at worst, probably top 25) guy, with JD Martinez falling in the 90-110 range. The good news is that Houston, in my estimation, will have more than its share of the top 250. I can easily see us having 10+ guys in the 120-250 range.

by Snake Diggity on Sep 8, 2010 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions  

To me

No one but Lyles is a top 100 guy. And DDJ would be the closest to making it for me, probably in the top 120. I could see Martinez, Folty, and maybe Ovando making my top 150 as well. Definitely no one else would be in the top 200.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 8, 2010 2:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

A lot of subjectivity once you get in the 100-250 range,

but I could see the following guys in the the mix: Heath, Clemens, Shuck, Gaston, Altuve, Villar, Austin, Mier, Wates, Nash, DDJ, Ovando, Keuchel, Bushue, Velasquez, and Folty

by Snake Diggity on Sep 8, 2010 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well

If you wrote 100-400 range, I’d agree. There are just too many decent B- types out there for guys like Altuve, Nash, Gaston, Shuck, and probably Clemens to be considered in the top 250. Wates, Heath, Austin, Mier, Keuchel, Bushue, Velasquez deserve serious consideration in the top 250, and quite a few would get in on my list. Some would say Villar would derserve consideration as well, but I’m just down on him I guess. Obviously DDJ, Folty, Ovando and JD Martinez would be safely in my top 250 (probably in my top 150).

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 8, 2010 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not in the top 200

Not for me. I like him though, and he’d be in my top 250, but near the back of that. I’ll have nearly 250 B- types, and to me he is borderline C+/B-, as are a whole bunch of guys on the Astros list.

by auclairkeithbc on Sep 8, 2010 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions  

Does he move up this year?

He was the youngest player in the Cal league. He did okay but not great. Does he repeat or move on up to CC? There is really no body blocking him above, and behind him Grant Hogue is the only person who he would likely be blocking. Due to Hogue’s age, he could potentially skip Lancaster and be thrown into CC to see if he sinks or swims.

by AppyAstros on Sep 9, 2010 8:29 AM CDT up reply actions  

I see him advancing personally. The organization is high on him and being that he did show improvement this season, I see him advancing.

by Subber10 on Sep 9, 2010 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

CB top 30

So do Astros let Delome (24 years old) go Rule 5 if there are indeed any takers. Can’t beleive that he’s not in top 30? Yes,he needs to improve on contact skills, but doesn’t everyone on the list need to improve some skillset?

by jalchz on Sep 15, 2010 1:33 PM CDT reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Crawfishboxes, the SBNation blog for the Houston Astros.

TCB Tweets!

    

Current Series

3 game series vs Rockies @ Minute Maid Park

Sat 04/07 6:05 PM CDT
Sun 04/08 1:05 PM CDT

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
Chicago 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Cincinnati 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Houston 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Milwaukee 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Pittsburgh 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
St. Louis 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0

(updated 2.13.2012 at 6:03 AM CST)


Managing Editors

Tcb_icon_small Timothy De Block

Old_school_dome_logo_small David Coleman

Editors

Nsapcs13_large_small clack

H_astros_small Subber10

Astrobritrs2_small AstroB

Small conroestro

Small native_astro

Small CRPerry13

Authors

Astros_logo121009_small OremLK

This-is-my-boom-stick_small allphilla

Th_houston-astros-logo-3_small Will Bonn