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25 for 25: Astros

I am actually a St. Louis Cardinals fan, but over the past few months I've been working on a roster for each franchise in the National League, composed of players over the last 25 years. The way this works is that I pick one player from each season and I have to fill out an entire roster (2 catchers, 2 infielders at each position, 6 total outfielders, 5 starting pitchers, 4 relievers). I can't take more than one player for each year, I have to take one player each season even in the bad years, and I can't use the same player for multiple positions. If a player played the majority of his games at one position, I can't use that season for another position even if he's played it before. And I used basically minimums of 60 innings or 250 PA's (prorated for strike seasons).

The interesting part with this are the decisions that have to be made, whether it is, "Dang there are some really nice outfielder seasons to choose from, who gets left out?", or, "Does this team even have two decent catchers in a 25-year span?", or, "This guy had so many great years - which one do I choose?" Sometimes a great year gets left out, sometimes a fluke, partial season gets tabbed for the team.

I actually posted the entire NL East, NL West and NL Central on the SB Nation site Viva El Birdos, as well as a fully researched extended version for the Cardinals from 1910 to 1934 and (eventually) a post just like this at all of the other NL sites. You're welcome to pick apart my choices and make suggestions of your own. I'm looking forward to hearing from everybody.

P.S. After completing the whole process and receiving comments last week, I realized that I should have utilized both BP's WARP1 and B-R's WAR numbers instead of just WARP1 along with Win Shares and OPS+/ERA+. (Fangraphs' WAR numbers only go back to 2002, so that would not have helped.) There were a couple players with differences of 2+ wins, so there might be a couple head-scratchers. My apologies.

Star-divide

C – Alan Ashby (1987), Tony Eusebio (1995)

1B – Glenn Davis (1988), Jeff Bagwell (1994)

2B – Bill Doran (1985), Craig Biggio (1997)

3B – Ken Caminiti (1989), Morgan Ensberg (2006)

SS – Andujar Cedeno (1993), Miguel Tejada (2009)

OF – Luis Gonzalez (1991), Steve Finley (1992), Moises Alou (1998), Richard Hidalgo (2000), Lance Berkman (2001), Hunter Pence (2008)

SP – Mike Scott (1986), Shane Reynolds (1996), Mike Hampton (1999), Roger Clemens (2005), Roy Oswalt (2007)

RP – Danny Darwin (1990), Octavio Dotel (2002), Billy Wagner (2003), Brad Lidge (2004)

Notable exceptions: Brad Ausmus (1997), Denny Walling (1986), Ricky Gutierrez (1998), Kevin Bass (1986), Carl Everett (1998), Nolan Ryan (1987), Jim Deshaies (1989), Pete Harnisch (1991), Mark Portugal (1993), Darryl Kile (1997), Jose Lima (1999), Andy Pettitte (2005), Wandy Rodriguez (2009), Doug Jones (1992)

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A few things — this is probably the only Astros list that I will ever see that doesn’t have Nolan Ryan as one of the starting pitchers, our shortstops over the years must have been worse than I remember, and you have both Pence and Oswalt for 2007 but nobody for 2008. With that said, this is a pretty interesting piece. Thanks for the time and work.

by BoxyBrown on Aug 6, 2010 10:31 AM CDT reply actions  

Nice piece

Easy to rectify the Oswalt and Pence part: Roy O won 14 games in 07, 17 in 08. We’ll just imagine that the 2007 on Roy’s part was a typo and say we’ll put Roy-O from 2008 on there.

B^2

"Yes, I rather like this God fellow. He's very theatrical, you know, a pestilence here, a plague there. Omnipotence. Gotta get me some of that."
Stewie Griffin-Family Guy

by Nitroberg on Aug 6, 2010 11:18 AM CDT up reply actions  

Oswalt / Pence

Actually I had them the other way around, based more around WARP1 numbers.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 6, 2010 12:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

Not bad. I probably would have found a way for Biggio at catcher and Kent at 2B.

by IndianaAstrofan on Aug 6, 2010 10:34 AM CDT reply actions  

CRRUUUUUZZZZZZz

Has Jose Cruz be a non-player for more than 25 years?

I assume Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran didn’t play enough innings.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 6, 2010 11:22 AM CDT reply actions  

The Rotation

You guys are not hurting for quality starting pitchers. Look at the number of guys with great seasons that didn’t make the cut. I wasn’t going to throw in a guy who pitched 1/3 of a season unless I really had to fill in a gap.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 6, 2010 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

that makes sense

But if you’re talking impact – Randy Johnson and Carlos Beltran made it. If you take importance the team in long haul , Jose Cruz was with the team in 85-87.

I know – with the parameters you set for yourself, getting all 25 years represented makes some hard choices.

Some good pitchers knocked out Adam Everett (great glove, no bat) .

Anyway – an interesting and challenging enterprise.

 

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 6, 2010 3:48 PM CDT up reply actions  

Tejada is decent

Cedeno not so much – it would have been nice to take him out and put in Luis Gonzalez or maybe Mark Portugal. Then again, Everett’s best season was probably 2006 and Ensberg really needs to be on this team. 2004 isn’t much better versus Lidge.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 6, 2010 4:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

Your memory of Ensberg is better than mine

Nice fellow no doubt.

But I remember him as a two or three month shooting star that blazed out and hurt the team when he tried to play injured.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 6, 2010 5:59 PM CDT up reply actions  

Ensberg is the best third baseman in Astros’ history based on his career WAR.

by clack on Aug 6, 2010 10:52 PM CDT up reply actions  

that's surprising

Better than Ken Caminitti?

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 7, 2010 12:05 PM CDT up reply actions  

Caminiti has a much higher WAR for his career than Ensberg, but the largest part of Caminiti’s WAR was produced in San Diego. I forgot that Caminiti played for the Astros in 2000 and didn’t count that year. Taking that into account, Ensberg and Caminiti have about the same WAR for their Astros’ years. Ensberg’s 2005 season produced 6.5 WAR, which is fairly impressive. Ensberg’s defense was +12 in 2005 and +10 in 2006, which added to his good offense in those seasons.

by clack on Aug 7, 2010 4:44 PM CDT up reply actions  

Pitchers

I just can’t see Shane Reynolds and Mike Hampton edging out Ryan’s ’87.

It’s too bad Niekro’s ’82 falls just outside the range.

by pel on Aug 7, 2010 3:20 AM CDT reply actions  

Ryan, Reynolds, Hampton

Mike Hampton’s ‘99 season was so much better than Nolan Ryan’s ‘87, by the numbers (MH: 8.8 WARP1 / 7.8 WAR (including 1.2 as a batter); NR: 5.4 / 4.8; SR: 6.6 / 3.8). If I had used the WAR numbers as well, I might have chosen someone other than Reynolds, but his WARP1 was better (probably based on the difference in their offensive production). But you guys didn’t have much to choose from for catching and Alan Ashby was pretty solid in 1987, so I chose him over The Express.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 7, 2010 6:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Pitching, Bagwell and Biggio are stellar

It’s almost depressing to see how “average” the best Astros regulars have been. A couple of them on the list were more producitve on other teams, and one or two had one or two good years.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 7, 2010 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe I remember him being better than he was but I think Derek Bell deserves an honorable mention for his work in the outfield in the late 90’s for the stros

by Optical Delusion on Aug 7, 2010 12:49 PM CDT reply actions  

I agree

I’d add Jose Cruz and Adam Everett, too.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Aug 7, 2010 1:04 PM CDT up reply actions  

Bell

If I had been working with WAR for this list, he may have had a chance (5.4 WAR in 1998). But Carl Everett was higher than him in ‘98 by WARP1, Alou in the same year by both measures, and Derek wasn’t anything special in any other season.

I was reading about how countless species are being pushed toward extinction by man's destruction of forests. Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us. - Calvin, Scientific Progress Goes "Boink", Watterson

by Solanus on Aug 7, 2010 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions  

I was going to mention Carl Everett. I’m surprised he didn’t vie for the list. But, then again, he had injuries each year which kept him out of a month or so of games and probably reduced his WAR. Carl Everett had a 5.9 WAR season in 1999.

by clack on Aug 7, 2010 4:47 PM CDT reply actions  

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