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Point, Counterpoint: Houston Astros Under Bagwell

HOUSTON - AUGUST 15:  Brett Wallace #29 of the Houston Astros slides safely into home plate as catcher Chris Snyder #19 of the Pittsburgh Pirates looks around at Minute Maid Park on August 15 2010 in Houston Texas.  (Photo by Bob Levey/Getty Images)

As I was unwinding from a fifth and final day of covering the National Diving Championships, I stumbled across Blazing Saddles on HDNet Movies. I bring this up for no reason other than because it's freakin' brilliant, even almost 40 years after it first debuted.

Another show I saw as I flipped through channels was more relevant to this article. In a discussion of childhood vaccines, a doctor brought up the scientific method and how some authors of studies can fall victim to letting the data support their initial idea instead of the other way around. I think baseball writers like me can fall into the same trap.

That's what happened in this article by Richard Justice. At least, I believe he's been talking with players and coaches who see a change in the Astros because of Jeff Bagwell. The changes may be real, but do they account for the offensive jump?

For one thing, 24 of the 27 games the Astros have played with Bagwell as hitting coach have been against the NL Central. Of those nine series, only three have been against teams over .500 as well. So, we've got 16 percent of the schedule mostly against losing teams? And we're surprised that the Astros have been doing well? The level of competition is key to how the team has performed, and it's something we've been talking about here for a while. Heck, even the Cardinals have been owned by Houston this season, making only two legitimate series against teams that give the Astros fits. How will Bagwell's job look after these series against the Mets, Florida and Philadelphia?

Justice does talk about this some, but it's worth mentioning that the Astros hitters were unlucky. He also used batting average to justify Bagwell's statistical impact on Hunter Pence and Carlos Lee. Pence has a fairly even career split between the first and second halves, with slightly more power in the second. There's also a bit of regression back to the mean involved, which he does hint at. It's easy to fall into the trap of making every bad performance about luck, but if you're going to argue for someone's impact on a team's hitting, you have to account for luck in some way.

I like the quotes about what Bagwell has been able to accomplish. He seems to be running the team's hitters well and in a way they respond to. If anything, his true impact has come in being the clubhouse leader instead. His little comments about "deserving a sandwich" means he's holding guys accountable like he did when he was playing. Brad Mills can do the same thing, but having that coach/leader be someone who's not the manager helps keep authority where it belongs. At any rate, I think Bagwell's approach has helped the club hit better. I'm just not sure to what degree he's helped.

Justice did a great job of getting quotes that worked and writing about an interesting subject. Fans want to believe one of the most beloved players in franchise history is helping to make this team win. I just think it'll take more than 27 games to figure out if that's a true statement.

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You are exactly right. And it’s impossible to know how much, if any, of the change in batting is due to coaching. My gut reaction is that most of any impact by Bagwell would be more long term in nature and won’t show up in any noticeable way until sometime in the future. As early as January, we were discussing the fact that the Astros had a tough first half schedule but might be able to turn on the jets in the second half because the August and September schedule appeared weak. Levine had a blog piece about the Astros’ hard early schedule and easy late schedule late last year, as I recall. I like the point made by Mills in Justice’s article. He said Bagwell is a good fit because Mills wanted someone on the bench who could talk to hitters during the game. I think that is the area that Bagwell could have the most immediate effect, i.e., keeping hitters’ heads in the game and just discussing baseball stuff. Biggio has always said that he learned the most by just listening to veterans on the bench talk about what is happening on the field.

by clack on Aug 16, 2010 9:42 AM CDT reply actions  

Talking during game

Did Sean Berry not talk to hitters during the game? That’s weird.

by jmike on Aug 16, 2010 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions  

I don’t know for sure. But Justice’s earlier column expressing his praise for Berry said that Berry didn’t want to “push himself” on the players. According to Justice, when a hitter was slumping, Berry would just stand near the hitter in case the player wanted to talk. But he was reticent to press his points unless the player wanted him to do so. Justice felt that this was a great approach. But maybe it wasn’t.

by clack on Aug 17, 2010 12:17 AM CDT up reply actions  

I think it can depend on the hitter, and a coach needs to recognize that.

by Timothy De Block on Aug 17, 2010 7:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Very interesting article

This upcoming road trip will be fun. Or so I hope.

Just one more point: I think the recent surge the Astros are undergoing is due not so much to some fenomenally improved hitting but greately improved pitching. Wandy has been tremendous recently, Myers hasn’t slowed down, Bud is on the rise, Happ joined with a few gems of his own.

Reliz Feliz!

by RocketsAstros on Aug 16, 2010 12:12 PM CDT reply actions  

Here comes another sarcastic AstroB comment about how Bagwell couldn’t have anything to do with the resurgence of our offense.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Aug 16, 2010 12:15 PM CDT reply actions  

Although I think Bagwell hasn’t been the main contributing factor to the recent offensive success, I WILL NOT sit here and pretend that his presence has made very little impact. When you hit 449 home runs and 1500 (performance enhancers or not) players especially younger ones will be much more likely to follow a set philosophy Bagwell may establish early in his tenure.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Aug 16, 2010 12:23 PM CDT reply actions  

As an Astros fan, I hope Bagwell stays on next season and beyond as batting coach.

by PeteyNhtown on Aug 16, 2010 12:32 PM CDT reply actions  

Uh, this is Richard Justice?

The guy who err..flamed the Astros for replacing Sean Berry?
The dude’s a Weathervan.

you couldn’t put one source on the increase in run support, which actually dates back to callups, rather than the all-star break. Lets not get carried away ,while we’re doing better offensively, we’re hardly going to be mistaken for the Bronx Bombers.

by AstroB on Aug 16, 2010 12:46 PM CDT reply actions  

I’ll give Justice credit for one thing: Justice apologized (sort of) for getting it wrong when he flamed the Astros for replacing Berry with Bagwell. Justice follows it up with a facetious, “maybe Wade knows more than I do about baseball,” but then says probably not.

by clack on Aug 16, 2010 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions  

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