What does the Roy Oswalt trade tell us about the Astros future?
Yesterday was a day that will probably be referenced by us often over the next decade. How we remember the trade in isolation as a success or failure will depend largely upon how the players acquired pan out, and also the immediate deals that Ed Wade strikes as well (possibly trading Berkman or extending Myers). As such, it is difficult to assign terms like success or failure in this kind of a move, but it is possible to evaluate the direction that Wade is taking the franchise based on the signals it gives us.
We are all probably familiar with the specifics of yesterday's dealings: the Astros took Roy Oswalt ($11 million lighter in his contract) and turned him into J.A. Happ, Jonathan Vilar, and Anthony Gose. Ed Wade then turned Anthony Gose into Brett Wallace a few hours later. The Gose for Wallace swap then set the internet a flutter with speculation that Lance Berkman is being aggressively hustled on the trade market, but where we stand as of now is Ed Wade has saved the Astros $12 million while adding Happ, Villar, and Wallace to the fold.
But the bare bones description doesn't necessarily tell the story we are looking for. This is a trade that can't be summed up a simply a win or a loss for the Astros, nor should we try to interpret it as such. What we should try to do instead is understand what exactly took place and examine the clues found therein about the trajectory of the franchise.
I am going start by analzying what other people have said in terms of winning and losing the trade, but I am not concerned with their conclusions. Rather, I am focused on how it can serve as a launching pad for another vein of analysis.
There has been a lot of talk in the national media and national sabercircles about whether Ed Wade got enough for Roy Oswalt. Many outlets have taken the perspective that for the value Roy Oswalt represented to the Phillies in the short term, coupled with the fact that the Astros are paying $11 million of his contract, that a return of a mid-to-back end of the rotation starter, a toolsy SS, and a nothing but league average 1B is a disappointing haul.
I'll be honest, I am inclined to agree with that sentiment—on its face. The added value Oswalt has to the Phillies is tremendous in terms of positioning them to print money, via ticket sales for postseason baseball. It is staggering. Combine that with the fact the Phillies are not even being forced to add a ton of payroll to increase their odds at hitting paydirt and it seems ludicrous that we are not talking about a haul of blue chip prospects the Astros acquired. The operative word in all of this, though, is seems.
Somewhere in Intoduction to Microeconomic Theory 101, I learned that rational agents engage in trade because it benefits both sides. In an ideal market situation with perfect information and perfect competetion neither side of a transaction "loses" in trade and neither side "wins". That's why people champion "the marketplace," because it reaches Pareto efficiency. Ed Wade and other GMs did not conduct their trade negotiations in a vacuum. There were real constraints placed on Ed Wade and other GMs had ample information to properly access what the market value for Oswalt's services were because a very close substitute's price had recently been set.
The first constraint Wade faced was that Oswalt's trade demands were very public. Wade had his bargaining postion cut out from under him from the words "trade me." Secondly, Wade had to find a trade partner that would satisfy Oswalt so that he would waive his no trade clause (and from the last ten days of worth of rumors and reports, that was not an easy task). Thus, it is not as though Ed Wade had a ton of room to bluff or bully his way through these negotiations. Finally, every other GM in MLB had just witnessed Dan Haren, who is owed less money per year and is younger than Oswalt, go to the Angels for a package of Joe Saunders, an intriguing prospect, a nothing prospect, and potentially someone of note once we know who the PTBL is.
All of this is to say that the market price for Roy Oswalt had shifted very much in favor of a trade partner like the Phillies. The decision left to be made was whether the market would offer the Astros something for Roy Oswalt that could meet Ed Wade's reservation price (something likely to be low given Oswalt's relative value to the Astros, his contract, and Wade's weak bargaining position). Obviously, Ed Wade felt like the Phillies package, and his ability to flip Anthony Gose to Toronto for Brett Wallace did. Ed Wade also must have managed to convince Drayton McLane that trading Roy Oswalt yesterday was the best they were going to be able to get for Oswalt and Drayton McLane must have accepted the reduced haul was necessary to begin scaling back payroll as rebuilding begins in earnest. Either that, or Ed Wade believes, and then made Drayton McLane believe, that J.A. Happ and Brett Wallace offered enough immediate talent to justify the trade. But even if the latter is the case, I cannot believe that Wade and McLane actually think that is the true market value of Oswalt; just the maximum value that could be extracted from Oswalt while Houston owned his contract.
The immediate impact on the Astros payroll is that it will be $12 million lighter in 2011 and that 2012 will not see the obligation to buyout Oswalt's option for $2 million. In place of Roy Oswalt's talent, the Astros will now immediately substitute J.A. Happ and his league minimum salary through 2011 with escalations through arbitration increasing it for three seasons thereafter. Happ seems to have a ceiling as a number three starter and a floor as number five. In other words, he's a non-payroll burdening filler that will be appropriately seasoned by the time the Astros are in a position to contend again.
Happ for Oswalt obviously saves the Astros a lot of money in the short term and some in the long, but it is Brett Wallace's acquisition that I believe signals Ed Wade's plans for the franchise the most. Wallace is by all accounts MLB ready—now. Most also believe that he will be a serviceable, league average first baseman with his own set of pluses (pop) and minuses (defense). His acquisition sends only one message: Lance Berkman's days as an Astro are numbered.
Not picking up Berkman's option saves the Astros $14 million in 2011, boosting their total savings after paying Happ and Wallace league minimum to about $25 million. This leaves the Astros with a minimum of payroll obligation (with generous estimations for arbitration bonuses) of about $65 million—nearly a third of which is Carlos Lee's contract. It is about as bare bones as the Astros payroll can get (yes, I will gloss over Lyon's $5.1 million).
What I gather from all of this is that the Astros are trying to dump payroll in the short term as they see how things pan out on the farm. In the interim, they will seek out affordable, yet serviceable players to keep the big league club young and possibly interesting without drifting into historical levels of terrible. They will also have the financial wherewithal to extend sensible contracts for players like Myers, Pence, Bourn, Wandy, or even players from outside the organization to have an experienced group of players to complement the crops the farm yields over the next few seasons. Simply put, it gives Ed Wade the both the means and opportunity to pursue a forward looking agenda because Drayton McLane is no longer unrealistically focused on the present.
Viewing Roy Oswalt's trade from this perspective, I have to disagree with some of the national writers (and even some of us) who are convinced the Astros were fleeced. This trade has been deemed a failure and a disappointment because the Astros didn't receive a true blue chip prospect. Yet, we have no indication that such a talent could have been acquired, nor did Ed Wade have any real incentive to keep Oswalt with the Astros just because the market has changed its pricing on veteran pitching. There is really no "winning" in this situation, and given all the offers that Ed Wade heard for Oswalt, he likely accepted either the best or close to the best package out there (i.e. as Pareto efficient as it was going to get)
But what Ed Wade really acquired for the Astros is a new outlook. In getting Drayton McLane to accept that the veteran nucleus was no longer capable of being a "champion," progress can be made. Money saved at the big league level can be reinvested on draft signings (DDJ, anyone?), player development, and acquiring players with a strong focus on the future ramifications—both in terms of their output and contract. In the process, Wade acquired a plan B for Jio Mier and two major league ready talents to buoy the big league club while we see how Heck's drafts pan out.
Trading Roy Oswalt will not dramatically accelerate the rebuilding process for the Houston Astros. I wanted it to—as I am sure all of us did. In hindsight, it doesn't appear that Oswalt could really have been the catalyst for fixing a barren farm system. Ed Wade's trade of Oswalt will likely never be remembered as sexy (unless Villar or Wallace defy expectations) and that's OK. What trading Roy Oswalt does do for the Astros franchise is allow it to finally change gears. Something that is necessary and beneficial for future efforts to rebuild the franchise.
So I believe that all we can really say about this trade is the following: It is the moment where Ed Wade got Drayton McLane to say "Uncle." And that is nothing to sneer at.
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Patrick Sullivan put it best when he said: At some point, if enough sellers “get fleeced”, it’s just the market.
BUT in the Oswalt case
Astros were not in the mandatory sellers camp. There were anxious buyers who sought Roy O. Unless the Astros were comfortable the value to the organization of who they received was worth more than Roy plus 11 million dollars, they were not required to sell. They could have used both Roy and the money and so were not forced to accept the market offer.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 30, 2010 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions
Sure
They weren’t in the mandatory sellers camp, but they were kind of in a position where this deadline likely offered their best opportunity to get a return on Roy. I think that this made them comfortable with the package they accepted after the surveyed the market. Their only other option would have been to hold onto him and see if a better return could be found in the offseason, but there is no guarantee of that.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Jul 30, 2010 2:23 PM CDT up reply actions
Effectively addresses the "opportunity cost" argument
I’m not convinced that the Astros could have gotten a blue chip prospect with star upside. They obviously tried, with all of the rumors about how hard they were pushing for Singleton, but apparently Singleton was untouchable.
But I also don’t buy that Brett Wallace is not a blue chipper. I’d say he is in the same sense that Jason Castro was as our top prospect; he has a high floor and a strong expectation that he will be an MLB starter. If his floor is James Loney and his reasonable ceiling is Billy Butler, that’s still a nice piece to have for the league minimum over the next few years, and cheap for a few years after that, and should provide lots of surplus value.
Prospect analysts clearly realize this. Prior to this season, here is where he was ranked by a variety of publications:
Baseball America: 27th
Keith Law: 20th
Project Prospect: 29th
FanGraphs: 32nd
MLB.com: 16th
AOL Fanhouse: 28th
Kevin Goldstein (who lambasted the trade publicly yesterday): 44th
Clearly, he was seen as a top 50 prospect by almost everybody entering the season, and while he hasn’t mashed like you would have hoped in 2010, I don’t know if I would qualify .301/.359/.509 (even from a first baseman) as “disappointing” either. Baseball America still had him in their top 50 midseason list, so they must not have been too concerned.
It’s not as sexy as getting a ridiculous upside kid like Singleton in low A who could be “the next [insert star here]”, but it’s much, much safer, and that has value. So does the flexibility to trade Berkman this season if we can get a reasonable return.
Wallace will hit
and playing in that ballpark will help his numbers. I think he’ll be a solid major leaguer. Not a perennial all-star, but a solid player that helps you win games.
I have no problem with Wallace. I have difficulties using the less recent evaluations of his prospect rankings.
The problem is that in the mid season lists after a large amounts of attrition:
Baseball America: Does not rank in the top 25, in the top 50
Keith Law: Has not updated
Project Prospect: Fell out of the top 50
FanGraphs: No update
MLB.com: No Update
AOL Fanhouse: Does not make it into the top 25
Kevin Goldstein (who lambasted the trade publicly yesterday): No update
The questions seem to stem from the fact that he is not gaining traction from the prospect evaluators and in most cases is slipping. Lets not forget that he is playing in Las Vegas and his line is defiantly inflated due to the home environment. Because he is not destroying the PCL people will question his power.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Since he’s actually improved over last season (although not as much as you would have hoped), I just don’t buy that his stock has fallen. Or at least by any significant amount. Even if it’s in a hitter-friendly environment.
I think the problem is people are starting to realize that he is not going to blossom into the guy they thought he might be
and is instead is a you see is what you get guy. That in itself will hurt his value.
2 things sell in this league, production and promise of upside. His upside has slipped and his production is not at a level to warrant his initial first of the year ranking.
JD’s like, "you want some fucking pitching? Here’s all the pitching you can stand. Now choke on it, bitches!"- RCCook
Maybe so
There’s a strong tendency to overreact to short term things in the prospect world, and I’ve been guilty of it myself. Granted, six months is a long time in the minor leagues.
Good points. I think the only question facing Wade at the time the trade was made is whether he might get a better return if he traded Oswalt in the off-season. Arguments can be made for that strategy (in fact, I might have preferred that choice). But in the end it comes down to a “bird in hand” type of decision. It depends on how the GM weighs certainty vs. uncertainty.
My view of the trade is that it isn’t terrible at all, but it’s also not a “win” from the Astros’ perspective. Given the money exchanging hand, I think it tilts more toward the Phillies. I also think Wade probably values J.A. Happ more than others might. I would certainly agree that Happ is a better choice than Saunders.
I don’t know if Wade will make any other trades before the deadline. McTaggert seems to think it is unlikely. Maybe Keppinger could be traded. Based on what we’ve seen so far, a relief pitcher might fetch a better than expected return.
The only one (RP) that fetch anything is Lyon. I dont see them moving Lindstrom whatsoever. I don’t know how value Lyon has right now but a good young arm (SP) in return would work.
Lyon would be valuable on the trade market, except that he has 2 more years on his contract. I’m not sure if any teams would bite on that kind of contract.
I doubt that the Astros want to trade Lindstrom, and I probably wouldn’t either, unless someone wildly overpaid for him. But he would have great value on the market. I think he is better than Capps, and Capps returned a good prospect from the Twins.
Wilton Lopez would probably have value in a trade, although it may not make sense for the Astros to do so, given his age and cost controlled status.
Byrdak may be tradeable, but you probably don’t get much but minor league fodder in return. I wouldn’t mind trading Byrdak for anything, but I doubt that Wade feels the same way.
Byrdak's job is secure this year
His wife is one of the two chairs of hte Astros Wives Gala as I recall.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 30, 2010 1:42 PM CDT up reply actions
It's a jungle out there...
and the business world of the MLB is certainly no exception. I don’t know how our new aquisitions will pan out, or if this deal is setting the table for Lance’s departure (I hope not), but I’ll tell you one thing…I am NOT sorry to see Roy go. It’s like that girlfriend you had that kept whinning all the time…and then, finally, she left…you know how you felt, right? THANK GOD!!!!!!!!!
I don’t recall Roy ever whining. Are you calling him a whiner because he asked to be traded? To me that’s not whining. It’s a true competitor wanting one last shot at a ring before he hangs up the cleats. He’s not a spring chicken anymore and chances of the Astros even making the playoffs are null and void. He’s not a whiner in my opinion.
I’m calling him a whiner cuz, in MY opinion, that’s how he came accross.
by titansfan4ever on Jul 30, 2010 10:29 AM CDT up reply actions
I respect your opion but if you’re basing off that the opinions of sportswriters who don’t follow the team, it’s not really fair but it is you opinion.
Yeah, and I got to admit, I’m one of those “honor your contract” kind of guys. And, I’m still a little hurt that he didn’t want to be an Astro, but I understand your take…it’s the same reason LeBron left Cleveland.
by titansfan4ever on Jul 30, 2010 10:36 AM CDT up reply actions
Generally I’d be right with you on finish what you started but with the history of this franchise, namely the Produce Prince (Drayton McLame), Roy saw this franchise not anywhere near contention for the next 3-4 years and wanted another shot which he rightfully deserves. But of grocery boy has always insisted that we win NOW rather than let’s win now AND prepare for down the road. Just my take on it. Blame the the Produce Prince not Roy.
I probably wouldn’t be so judgemental as to call Oswalt a “whiner.” But I did feel like Oswalt’s attitude was starting to wear thin. I got tired of him complaining about the run support, and I think he tried to cut down that tendency later on this season. Sometimes Oswalt would show disgust (body language) with the fielding behind him. Maybe that all means it was time for him to move on, where he could recharge his attitude.
I didn’t really mean to sound judgemental, Lord knows I’m FAR from perfect…it just seems to me that it’s SUCH an honor to be a starting pitcher in the MLB…regardless of what team your on, or if that team is winning or has a chance to win…but, I’m a fan, so I’m sure any of us would probably feel that way.
by titansfan4ever on Jul 30, 2010 10:53 AM CDT up reply actions
Ed's Head
I have to agree with your response, I will miss watching Roy pitch for the Stros and I hope he does well for the Phils. I think waiting till the offseason could have been disatrous for the Stros and possibly career ending for Ed Wade. Imagine if Roy had stayed with us and got injured or just had an all around dismal rest of the season. Everyone, including me, would have been called for Ed’s HEAD!! Why did he wait when we could have at least gotten some talent in return and some payroll flexiblity?? JA Happ was runner up rookie of the year, Wallace has some potential (maybe we still trade Lance) and who knows maybe Vilar pans out.
Has anyone seen/heard the interviews with Jonathan Villar’s manager Mark Parent?
If not, you can see them here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NOxEMpUg_DQ and here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Wa0qVzbbV4
Definitely a good review from his former manager. As a side note, I got these from PhoulBallz. As a blog, they’re able to establish semi-frequent contact with the managers of their farm clubs. I wonder if that’s something we could do here.
Contending
With the freed up payroll, and the weak division, I don’t think it’s out of the realm of possibility that we make the playoffs next season. Of course, it would require many players to play above their head. Lee, Pence, Bourn (to an extent), and Wandy are all having down years. If Bagwell can turn Pence into the hitter he could be and Lee rebounds next season plus Wallace break out and CJ continues, we have a solid line-up when you factor in Castro’s plus OBP ability and Bourn’s leadoff ability. Add that to the payroll room (given that it’s similar to the 95 M this season, although it very well could be reduced another 15 M) you can add a solid SS and 2B. You also could have room to add another impact starting pitcher.
I’m not saying we are contenders that way. I’m just saying that it’s in the realm of possibility. This very well could be the beginning of us actually seeing what Ed Wade can do in the FA market since he will have some budget room to sign his own big FA.
I think it is out of the realms of possibility
Too many question marks. .500 isn’t out of the question, but contending? I still figure Myers will be go for big money somewhere, leaving Wandy and Happ with another three question marks.
I didn’t say there wen’re question marks. There are definitely question marks. Thats why I said it would require many players to play over their head. If 3 out of 4 players answer the question mark at their position in a positive way, it could happen. It’s unlikely that happens but it is possible.
Astros '11
Next to Worst to Next to First
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 30, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions
Wow
That’s an amazing and well-considered analysis…and the reason why the Crawfish Boxes is one of my favorite websites!
Another day, another set of rumors
There is buzz about the #WhiteSox going for #Astros Lance Berkman. He has .874 OPS vs RHP.
Daniel Hudson, please!
The Jackson thing apparently isn’t a done deal.
Hold off on the Jackson trade folks, KW has something big cooking and if he gets it done Jackson trade is off.
“Something big” could be Myers and Berkman, no doubt.
by Jordan Sams on Jul 30, 2010 11:06 AM CDT up reply actions
With Hudson, we actually could trade Myers and still be okay this season, because Hudson could step into his spot in the rotation.
That was my line of thinking as well.
Is there any chance that we would be interested in Viciedo? I saw his name mentioned yesterday in the Dunn rumors.
Hard to believe Myers or Jackson would net Hudson, no?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 30, 2010 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions
Seems like guys like Myers, Jackson, etc. have more relative value than Haren/Oswalt. Is that just a money thing?
by Jordan Sams on Jul 30, 2010 11:07 AM CDT up reply actions
Just read this
and it’s an interesting analysis. http://www.tetreaultvision.com/sports/baseball/contrarian-thinking-in-defense-of-ed-wade.html
Thanks for the link!
Happy to answer questions on my post here or on my blog. I’m of the mind that picking on Ed Wade has become too easy. Hope you all appreciate my take.
by TetreaultVision on Jul 30, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Interesting...
Wade’s thinking about the future…and Drayton wants to win now.
by titansfan4ever on Jul 30, 2010 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions
Nature of ownership
is wanting to win now. Drayton letting Wade deal Oswalt is the signal that he’ll allow a thorough rebuilding
by TetreaultVision on Jul 30, 2010 11:28 AM CDT up reply actions
Was it part of a rebuilding process…or was it just one player who “demanded” to be traded?
by titansfan4ever on Jul 30, 2010 11:30 AM CDT up reply actions
I'd suggest a bit of both
Wade knows the team needs a major rebuilding, that’s why he’s targeting so many toolsy types, like Mier, DeShields, Jr. and Villar. Oswalt forced the issue with this deal, which makes it easier to get the entire process going.
by TetreaultVision on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM CDT up reply actions
Wallace
Let’s trade Berkman and get Wallace to the big leagues asap. Hopefully Bagwell can mold him into a solid MLB 1B!
Rather then make this kid move again, I think he should finish out the season in AAA and get his shot at starting in Spring training and maybe have Baggy work w/ him in the off season on his defense at 1B.
I would tend to agree, but I don’t know who plays first base if Berkman is traded, then. Pedro Feliz?
Wallace
That was one of my thoughts. Wallace is almost certain to be a September call up anyway. No sense in waiting if the club thinks he can replace Berkman and they can get something valuable for Berkman.
by TetreaultVision on Jul 30, 2010 11:26 AM CDT up reply actions
Now Stark saying Sox close to acquiring Jackson. I wonder if this is new, or just relaying what KEnny said in his first tweet.
Jackson to the Sox for Hudson and David Holmberg.
Hmmm, so who could we be considering from them now?
unless the Astros want Edwin Jackson (it’s possible, I suppose), I don’t see how the Astros could be involved. Jackson seems like an odd pick up for the White Sox, which leads some to believe he will be traded so that the White Sox can pick up a bat. There are conflicting reports on whether the Nationals might want Jackson in a Dunn trade.
I've always really liked Adam Dunn
I wish there was some way we could get him without maxing out the money the Astros are willing to spend.
didnt know the whitesox talk was here...
i made fanshot…oh well
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
rosenthal
Berkman could be in play for #Yankees under right circumstances. Tight with Pettitte. Likely waive no-trade for NYY. Depends on price. #MLB
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions
Maybe the only way I could root for the Yankees
by danielcp0303 on Jul 30, 2010 12:41 PM CDT up reply actions
Doubt he would waive NTC
He probably wants to win, and he of course likes Andy. But it may be a hard sell to get Lance to DH.
However, I see a better chance he waives his NTC to go to NY over Chi.
If we do trade with NY, how about Lance for 2B David Adams. (Not even in BA top ten)
Scouting Report
Power: 56
Batting: 71
Speed: 66
Contact: 68
Patience: 76
Astros could use a high in base type (Minor OBP .370)
Downside, he isn’t suppose to have good range at 2B and can be transitioned to 3B if needed.
@BNightengale: #mlb The White Sox focused only on Dunn; not Berkman or Fielder
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jul 30, 2010 12:38 PM CDT reply actions

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