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Astros Blunder Their Way To 12-6 Loss

I want to believe in Bud Norris. I really do.

The Bud Norris Facts are fun. He seems like he's a good guy in the clubhouse. At least, he can put up with all the teasing well. He's also one of the few homegrown prospects to come out of the system recently. 

I just don't know what to expect out of him game in and game out. Sometimes, he throws like he's constantly facing the Cardinals. Others, he gives up four or five runs, like he did in his last start and again tonight. His inconsistency is maddening, exactly because he does have a lot of talent. He can strikeout batters with extreme predjudice but battles control problems. He has the frame to be an innings-eater, but rarely pitches past the fifth inning. 

This game was no different, as Norris gave up seven runs (four earned) on nine hits in 4 2/3 innings while striking out four and walking two. The interesting thing with Norris is how similar is struggles were to what the Astros went through with Octavio Dotel (who incidentally pitched the ninth tonight as well). Halfway through his first season with the club in 2000, the Astros moved Dotel from the rotation to the bullpen, where he's flourished ever since. 

Norris has that kind of stuff. He's also got a repertoire that can get hit hard if he's not on as a starter, but would work just fine as a reliever in one to two inning stints. I'm not yet convinced that Norris cannot be a good starter. He's shown too many flashes of brilliance. After all, the Astros moved fairly quickly to put Ducky in the 'pen. The fact that they haven't done the same with Norris is telling. But, it has to be considered, and maybe as early as this offseason.

This game wasn't all Norris' fault. When the other team scores 12 runs, it rarely is. Carlos Lee and Chris Johnson both had costly errors, while the hitting went back to sleep for the most part after the first few innings. Hunter Pence had another strong post-ASG start, going 2 for 4 with a home run and two runs scored, while Jason Castro broke his 0-fer streak by going 1 for 4 with a few hard hit outs in there.

There's also a smidge of regression to the mean in here. The Astros have never won seven straight games against the Pirates to open a season. And that's with a really bad Buccos team for the past decade and a half. So, yeah, the PIrates were due. I just wish they didn't have to win like this. I'm resigned to the fact that the Astros will not play as well as I'd like them to, but I'd still like to avoid being embarrassed by a team like the Pirates. It makes it look like we're as bad as they are...

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Keep him in the rotation the rest of the season

We’ll see one way or the other what he’s meant to do. It’d be easier for Bud to transition to the bullpen than from it.

by mike_o on Jul 17, 2010 11:11 PM CDT reply actions  

Error to Hunter Pence not to Carlos Lee

(That’s Pence in the picture below the word “Blunder” at the top of the thread)

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 17, 2010 11:14 PM CDT reply actions  

Yep, mistook that play off the wall forthe second error. Will fix

by David Coleman on Jul 17, 2010 11:35 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions  

Bud Norris is frustrating

It just doesn’t seem like he’s progressing. I can’t add anything to what David Coleman wrote, but I don’t have the confidence in him I have in Paulino or Wandy.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 17, 2010 11:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Trade Rumor by Buster Olney

This off a website as coming from Buster Olney: •The Astros have not yet indicated to other teams what they would like in return for Brett Myers.

I don’t know who Buster Olney’s sources are , but his report gave me a flashback to the Tim Purpura days of not returning phone calls and not pursuing any discussions with other teams.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 18, 2010 12:06 AM CDT reply actions  

didn’t Purpura reply ‘duly noted’, then hung up on a GM?

On today’s game: Even though he was batting from the left side, Bourn’s double showed that he can take advantage of how teams play him if he’s smart enough. True he got jammed on the 2 run double, but the left fielder was playing so shallow that the ball dropped over him.

For me, as poorly as Norris pitched, after the Bourn double was the turning point. Norris should have been more heads up on that play and scored, which would have made it 5-3 with Bourn on third rather than second.

Still, with a 4-3 lead we had runners on 2nd and 3rd with no outs, and failed to get any more home. The next three at bats were pretty farcical.

by AstroB on Jul 18, 2010 6:23 AM CDT up reply actions  

One of the reasons that Dotel was moved to closer was that Billy Wagner had a season ending injury May or June of 2000. The Astros struggled to close out games without him. The Astros might not have been so decisive in moving Dotel to the pen otherwise. They had acquired Dotel with the intent that he would replace Mike Hampton in the rotation, knowing that Dotel looked good as a young starter for the Mets in 1999. I agree that Dotel’s performance as an Astros starter in 2000 had some similarities to Norris’…Dotel had lots of strike outs but would be done in by a bad inning, as I recall. That’s a pretty common pattern for young starting pitchers, though, so it’s not easy to figure out what it means.

by clack on Jul 18, 2010 7:07 AM CDT reply actions  

The thing I remember is that he’d go 4 innings then fall apart, i believe he only had two pitches to work with as well.

by Timothy De Block on Jul 19, 2010 7:24 AM CDT up reply actions  

Looking back on Dotel’s stint as a starter in 2000 and Norris’ current year, it appears that Dotel pitched somewhat deeper in games. Dotel with 5.7 IP/game and Norris with 5.2 IP/game. Dotel’s ERA as a starter, 5.84, is a little better than Norris’ 6.03 ERA. Both have similar K rates as a starter. Dotel (2000 starter) had a 9.2 K/9 and Norris with a 9.66 K/9. Norris has a bigger problem with BB’s than Dotel did. Dotel’s starter BB/9 is 3.2 and Norris’ BB/9 is 4.37. Dotel’s main problem as a starter was his HR rate. He gave up 20 HRs in 91 IP as a starter. I think a lot of that had to do with the way that Enron Field played (as a HR pinball machine) in 2000.

by clack on Jul 19, 2010 8:30 AM CDT up reply actions  

that’s a pretty interesting comparison and would indicate to me that Norris destiny lies in the bullpen.

by Timothy De Block on Jul 19, 2010 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

Well, so far, the main knock on Mills is.....

he leaves struggling pitchers in the game too long. Pitt took their starter out in the 2nd…and we should have done the same. Either you got it or you don’t…and when you don’t, you need to be on the bench. Lee hitting into a DP with the bases loaded is unacceptable & unforgivable. It’s little things like that, that seperates the good teams from the not so good teams. Giving up double digit runs to friggin Pitt…not the Cards or Reds….PITTSBURGH!!!! It’s embarassing!! I guess my Dad was right…he used to tell me, “Boy, some days you get the bear…and some days the bear gets you”.

by titansfan4ever on Jul 18, 2010 11:37 AM CDT reply actions  

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