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What Jeff Bagwell could mean for the Astros OBP?

After watching nearly two hours of baseless, soul-trying-to-watch competition that is the home run derby, I got into discussion with a friend about Jeffery Robert Bagwell becoming the Astros hitting coach. I got the standard "oh, it's a nice PR move yada yada yada" schpeel from the Ranger's fan and I did not protest or even really react. At this point, I still have no real feeling about the announcement other than excitement that Bagwell's name is in the headlines again. Whether this is an example of Drayton McLane using hirings and firings to pull the proverbial wool over the flock that are Astros fans or not does not excite me. Let Justice rail on that one to drum up controversy.

As my friend and I quickly went back into our malaise of having to listen to Joe, Boomer, and Bobby V drone on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on about the "fun" these guys were having and how "beautiful/impressive/artful" their swings are in forty five different—yet too similar—ways, I started wondering about the move. Although my sojourn through Texas on Sunday precluded me from weighing in, it was widely discussed amongst ourselves that Sean Berry was perfectly content to not push pitch selection/patience at the plate. Bagwell was not that kind of a hitter. His .408 career on-base percentage certainly speaks to that fact, as does Berry's .334.

I have often wondered why it is that great hitters don't become hitting coaches with Evan. We have always concluded it is because great hitters made enough to live leisurely through retirement where as mediocre ones did not. This is never a scientific or an actually informed discussion; just ramblings amidst our current complaint about the Astros to one other (if there were ever way to get transcribed records of our conversations, we would probably lose all credibly with you as we schizophrenically vacillate between saber-slanted objectivists to pure, unadulterated irrational fans every other minute). Evan and I's throw away meme seemed overly alluring, though, as Joe Morgan and Boomer said their thousandth asinine, factually incorrect statement of the evening. 

When I actually pulled up Baseball Reference to ensure that Berry was not an OBP machine and that Bagwell was, more gears started turning in my turned to mush brain. I honestly wondered if I were to query Boomer or Joe about Jeff Bagwell coming in to spell Sean Berry might lead to the ridiculous conclusion that the Astros hitters would take on Baggie's characteristics.

I then translated that imaginary assumption into a concerted conviction of determining what a corresponding percentage increase of the Astros OBP would be.

And I am going to do just that. Not because I feel like there is any value in what the exercise will reveal, but solely because I want to memorialize how terrible the commentating was during the home run derby. I feel like this scene from Billy Madison should have come on as a PSA from ESPN after the mockery of an event finally ended.

Star-divide

So Sean Berry had a .334 OBP for his career and Jeff Bagwell a .408. The percentage increase I'll calculate then is 18%. That will the allow for us to calculate the Astros new bOBP (Bagwell OBP). I calculated the change with Bagwell's OBP as the base solely because I wanted the numbers to end up somewhat reasonable. Again, I have no real interest in these numbers other than the "it could be fun" allure of crunching them.

Name OBP bOBP
Lance Berkman 0.369 0.435
Hunter Pence 0.316 0.373
Jeff Keppinger 0.335 0.395
Jason Michaels 0.273 0.322
Michael Bourn 0.331 0.391
Chris Johnson 0.300 0.354
Carlos Lee 0.287 0.339
Geoff Blum 0.311 0.367
Humberto Quintero 0.269 0.317
Jason Castro 0.278 0.328
Pedro Feliz 0.244 0.288
Tommy Manzella 0.259 0.306

That would give then Astros a team OBP of .349. In common parlance, that means the Astros would stop being such a terrible offensive team. In fact, in terms of OBP, they would be the third best team in all of baseball. I know that this all imaginary, but pause for a moment and close your eyes as you imagine what watching an Astros baseball game would be like if the decision to make Jeff Bagwell the Astros hitting coach would actually result a .349 OBP. How great would life be?

Obviously Jeff Bagwell becoming the hitting coach over halfway through the season will not bring about such a drastic change. My ire with the misery that was the home run derby and the strange way I have decided to air it aside, I do want to know if this move will actually change in anything for Astros' hitters? I don't want this to come off as some kind of rhetorical or sarcasm-barbed question. I am truly curious as to whether we think that Berry's public statements about not being concerned with plate discipline actually translated into changed approaches at the plate from Major League Baseball players? And would it then follow that Bagwell's patience might then change the well entrenched skill sets of some of the Astros hitters? These questions have been talked around or at, but not with the sharpness I would like to focus it. So please- discuss. Lord knows that after the brain melt that was the home run derby we could use some lively, enlightened conversation.

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I think you get a higher OBP at the catcher’s position, just because Q was lousy at taking walks (he was on 4 at some point). Same for Feliz and Manzella.

Since callups, the team OBP has gone up from .283 to .296, and there was a stretch of 8 games where we picked up 48 walks.

In answer to your question I think this season a lot of our players have had extended slumps, and just have not been seeing the ball very well. Being aggressive is all very well, but it has not worked too well.

I expect Pence, Lee and Berkman to rebound in the second half of the season, and I think their OBPs will rise slightly. I think in approach a batting coach can do a lot to help out hitters, and I would expect Bagwell’s advice/guidance to pay off in the long-run rather than taking immediate effect.

by AstroB on Jul 13, 2010 9:17 AM CDT reply actions  

Stop looking at me swan

The hitters have to buy in to what the hitting coach is selling. I think Bagwell will bring in a different a fresh prospective that should helps some of the hitters start moving back towards their career numbers.

by Timothy De Block on Jul 13, 2010 9:29 AM CDT reply actions  

I’m not sure the message from Bagwell will be that much different than Berry. But maybe Bagwell will have a better chance of getting through to the players. Justice talks about how much he liked Berry because he wouldn’t push himself onto slumping players. Maybe that was the wrong approach, who knows? In one of Baggy’s first broadcasts for the Astros, JD talked about the Astros’ inability to take a walk, and Bagwell recognized that you can’t expect this group of hitters to become walk machines, because that’s not who they are. He emphasized, though, that you want them to have good at bats. I suspect that Berry would see the same thing. It’s pretty standard. I think that Bagwell will try to have some day-to-day positive influence on a hitter like Pence. If he can improve Pence’s approach, that alone would justify this move.

Generally speaking, I’m skeptical of great hitters becoming good coaches/managers. Think about Cecil Cooper, who was a terrific hitter, but didn’t seem like a good influence on the Astros’ hitters. However, Bagwell’s personality may make him different in that regard. He seems like an empathetic type guy, and I don’t think he will expect every hitter to be like himself, which is sometimes a problem with great hitters turned coaches.

by clack on Jul 13, 2010 9:31 AM CDT reply actions  

If nothing else

Bagwell may force Carlos Lee to hit the gym.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by Stephen Higdon on Jul 13, 2010 9:43 AM CDT up reply actions  

Carlos Lee has lost weight, hustles more and covers more area than last season

He’s slow compared ot most MLB player but you must have missed his hustling from first to third over the season, or even his beating out the grounder to first the other day, or his running to center to challenge Bourn for fly balls at times. Carlos Lee has worked hard to improve this season and deserves some credit for that.

He can be criticized for his early season loss of confidence and high strikeout rate; but even that seems to be turning around (and not tied to weight)

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 13, 2010 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions  

Martinez is having a beast of season on offense. Although I understand that his defense may have kept him where he is at, it would satisfy our curiosity to know whether he can mash the ball in AA.

by clack on Jul 13, 2010 9:40 AM CDT reply actions  

wrong thread…I meant this for Subber’s minor league article…

by clack on Jul 13, 2010 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions  

None of this hands off stuff, Bagwell needs to seriously prod buttock.

If your numbers are below replacement level, you need a wakeup slap in the face, especially if you’re on big money.

Clack, I think Bagwell understands baseball to a very high degree so I’m not too worried about his transition to being a coach.

by AstroB on Jul 13, 2010 10:57 AM CDT reply actions  

I don't know who the hitting coaches are

Cardinals I know have Mark McGwire.

I looked up a couple:
Dodgers have Don Mattingly
Wasn’t Kirk Gibson batting coach for Arizona before taking over as manager?
Boston has Dave Magadan
Tampa Bay has Derek Shelton, who i never heard of, except his bio says he replaced Eddie Murray in Cleveland before moving to Tampa (Eddie Murray Iheard of ).
Yankees have Kevin Long, whose bio says was a good minor league hitter before a hurt wrist ended his playing career.
Rangers have Clint Hurdle
Phillies have Milt Thomson (11 years in the majors).
I stopped searchig here.

I was surprised I recognized the names of over half the above batting coaches. i had always assumed the better batting coaches were guys who struggled to milk every hit out of their bats and learned a lot along the way. Somoe of the above wre hittingstars (which of course doesn’t mean they didn’t struggle to milk every hit out of their bats along the way too).

I guess no one background is the defintive one.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 13, 2010 11:09 AM CDT reply actions  

One positive about Bagwell in my opinion

His batting stance was so unorthodox that he will not try to mold batter into the perfect batting stance.

I was frustrated for a few years because the Chicago White Sox had a White Sox style of batting. At AA games here in Birmingham I’d watch some of the most unnatural swings ever by guys trying to learn the White Sox way of hitting. I did seesome of the prettiest strikeout swings you’d wver want to see, which in my viewpoint is not as much fun as seeing a hit or two.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 13, 2010 11:15 AM CDT up reply actions  

re: batting stances

I don’t think batting stances are as important as the mechanics behind the swing. Where the hands are and where they go prior to swinging, transitioning weight, movement of the shoulder and hips along with keeping the head down and on the ball are more important that how the batter stands in the box. Bags comes across as a guy that knows it’s the mechanics that makes a hitter successful. However, I think Bags would be a much better coach if he had better players to work with ;)

by Reverend Koosh on Jul 13, 2010 11:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

Cal Ripken Jr.

proved batting stances don’t matter

by Timothy De Block on Jul 13, 2010 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions  

I disagree...

when I played (many, many yrs ago) the only reason I had any power at all was cuz I stood with my feet about 18in apart…and as the ball came in, I stepped in with my right foot toward the plate/mound (I batted left, even though I’m not left handed) and that allowed me to put all my weight (all 160lbs of it) into my swing. Bags never hit like that. With him it was all upper body power cuz he stood with his feet as far apart as he could get them.

by titansfan4ever on Jul 13, 2010 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions  

It all depends....

There are pros and cons to all styles.

I watched a hitting mechanics instructional video back when I was playing and was taught the pyramid technique, which turned into the diamond technique. The basic idea being balance. Having a wider stance which allows for your head to be directly in the middle of your stance you are able to maintain optimal balance throughout your swing whether facing a fastball or off speed. (A la Pujols)

The only caveat to this is that weaker upper bodies tend to struggle without an exaggerated leg kick

by baggs on Jul 13, 2010 2:10 PM CDT reply actions  

Back to my Birmingham discourse (the White Sox Style)

It’s disconcerting to see every batter with the same hitiing stance and stroke.

Part of the White Sox method was to exaggerate the follow through so that the bat ended up in one hand stretched way up above and behind the batter’s head.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 13, 2010 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions  

P.S.

Congratulations and good luck on being the Astros batting coach, Baggs. Do good.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jul 13, 2010 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

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