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For those who blame Wade or Purpura: the rot started under Hunsicker

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Spring 2003. Strolling around the clubhouse there must have been much for Jimy Williams to be thankful for. He had a lineup with veterans galore including Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Jeff Kent and Richard Hidalgo; some up and coming bats in Lance Berkman, Morgan Ensberg and Adam Everett; the top three in his bullpen were Billy Wagner, Octavio Dotel, and Brad Lidge; while the organisation had three bright starters; Roy Oswalt, Wade Miller and Carlos Hernandez. 

Baseball Digest waxed lyrical about Oswalt and described him as a 'rare talent like Dwight Gooden who has simply taken off upon reaching the big leagues.' His 33-12 record and .733 winning percentage in his first 53 career starts would have thought to have been the record of a veteran arm, it went on to say, like that of 'Randy Johnson or Curt Schilling, Pedro Martinez or Greg Maddux,' high praise considering the group had won 12 combined Cy-Youngs up to that point.

Hernandez would take no part in that season, and has yet to make a major league start since 2004. Constant shoulder problems stopped what looked to be a promising career. He is now in the Rays system, hoping to claw his way back to the majors after six years out. Wade Miller had to have season ending rotator cuff surgery in 2004, spent short spells in  Boston and Chicago but never fully recovered. And then that leaves Oswalt. 

If they had stayed healthy, they might have been one of the most dominant trios in the game; a new Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine for the 21st century. Instead Astros fans had to endure unimaginable levels of angst every time Tim Redding or Brandon Duckworth took the mound, until they were finally  'disposed' of. 

Star-divide

These developments should have caused the Astros to slide, deprived of their most promising young arms, but these problems were camouflaged by the arrivals of Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte. So Hunsicker departed looking like a genius, while Purpura was left at the helm of a ship that was slowly but inexorably sinking, even if nobody noticed at the time. 

You only have to look at the dearth of pitching talent that has come up through the Astros' system to see that in the last few years of Huniscker's tenure, all the arms that they drafted failed to make an impact at major league level. This includes Fernando Nieve, Jason Hirsh, Matt Albers, Troy Patton, Taylor Buchholz, Juan Gutierrez and Redding. Meanwhile the acquisitions of Pete Munro, Duckworth and Brandon Backe failed to plug the holes left by these failings.

This meant that Purpura and Wade had to look to the free agency market for starting pitching, and led to the signing of Woody Williams, Shawn Chacon, Mike Hampton, Russ Ortiz and Brian Moehler (and lest we forget the truly horrific trade for Jason Jennings). These were burnt out veterans with very little to offer a ballclub. In 2007, the 49 starts made by Jennings and Williams cost the Astros $11.5m. At least Hampton, Ortiz and Moehler who had 63 starts between them in 2009 only cost $5.05m. But what else could Wade or Purpura do? They were trapped, as the talent that had been drafted under Hunsicker showed itself to be worthless.


As has been pointed out in this excellent article, you can't make much of a comparison to what Huniscker and Wade inherited respectively when they became GMs. The former inherited a side with a strong nucleus, and added some key parts in drafted players such as Lance Berkman, Oswalt and Brad Lidge, and meant that he had the organisational depth to trade veterans like Billy Wagner when he thought he could get good value for them. Obviously the Wagner trade had much to do with the closer's barbed comments about owner Drayton McLane, but in the grand-scheme of things it made good sense. Too bad the three players Houston received in the deal, Duckworth, Buchholz and Ezequiel Astacio did not work out. Hunsicker would have seen Wandy Rodriguez's 2009 season and thought, can he really keep that up? When a players' value is high, sometimes it makes sense to move them on, as long as you have some organisational depth behind them. Ed Wade did not have that, and I doubt McLane would have been thrilled to see one of the Astros' few pitching talents being moved. This spring they struggled to fill five spots as it was.

Wade meanwhile, had to gut a team full of mediocre players, many of whom were killing the team with their performances; Chris Burke, Morgan Ensberg, Jason Lane, Adam Everett, Brad Ausmus. In 1,424 plate appearances, those five had a combined WAR of -1.7. He traded away what talent we had left, and tried his best to plug numerous holes within the roster, and somehow we fluked a 86-75 record the next year. 

Finally, with Paulino's last five starts we are seeing a pitcher finally come through the minor leagues and succeed in the bigs (even though Paulino was taken as an amateur free agent in 2001). But the litmus test is whether he can do it for a sustained amount of time. Taylor Buchholz showed flashes, but never really amounted to anything. Nor did Hirsh, who terrorised minor leaguers almost as much as Strasburg has this year, but failed when he called up. True, Purpura compounded the problem by repeating many of his predecessors' mistakes, but before you criticise Ed Wade for the mess the organisation finds itself in (and I am not absolving him of all the blame, only some of it), first go and look at Hunsicker's last five drafts and ask yourself one question. If you exclude Chad Qualls and Hunter Pence, who are the exceptions that prove the rule, have any of these names made us a better ballclub?

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Not sure I agree with this, strategy wise:

About the only thing an organization can do in response to TNSTAAPP is draft and acquire as many young pitching prospects as possible, and hope that a couple of them make it.

While I’m a firm believer in “best player available” (and that’s sometimes a pitcher), I dock the value of all pitchers because of the attrition rate you’re talking about. That means I’m less likely to want to draft one than a position player, all else being equal.

My thought is, position players are safer and higher-value picks. If that means you wind up drafting more position players, fine; develop them and trade them for pitchers who are already proven. Alternatively or in addition, if you have the payroll, simply fill the holes in the rotation in free agency.

The bullpen is relatively easy to fill off the scrap heap.

by OremLK on Jun 10, 2010 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions  

Well because TNSTAAPP applies to all teams, and not just the Astros, it means that pitching prospects are a scarce commodity, because all teams, acting rationally, would try to fill up their system with as many good pitching prospects as they can find. Thus, demand goes up for pitchers, and they will require more than equal value in a trade. If offense and defense were complete substitutes, you could just keep acquiring the safer high value players, but they aren’t. As a practical matter, trading prospects for prospects is not that common an occurrence. (Generally, when it happens, it’s because a veteran player for prospects deal has a prospect thrown in with the veteran player.) I’m not sure why that is the case. Maybe it’s because teams value their own prospects much more than other teams do.

by clack on Jun 10, 2010 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions  

Teams are hesitant to trade prospects for prospects because they’re more afraid of looking bad than they desire balance for their organization. They don’t want to trade away player who becomes a star down the road and get back only busted prospects in return.

However, I was speaking of trading position player prospects for proven major league starting pitchers.

by OremLK on Jun 10, 2010 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

But couldn’t also be said by the other team that they want a pitching prospect in return for the major league ready pitcher?

I don’t know how pleased I’d be if Oswalt was traded for only position players.

by Timothy De Block on Jun 10, 2010 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions  

Maybe

I don’t know. I wouldn’t care whether we got pitching prospects back personally, as long as we got good prospects. For instance, if the Rangers are going to offer me Smoak and Andrus (purely hypothetical, there’s no way they’d do that), I’m taking it in a heartbeat.

by OremLK on Jun 10, 2010 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions  

I refuse to believe TNSTAAPP. Are pitching prospects unpredictable? Absolutely. However, there’s a lot more to pitchers succeeding than just pure luck.

Let’s look at the starting pitchers we have successfully acquired and developed the past decade:

Roy Oswalt
Wade Miller
Wandy Rodriguez
Brandon Backe

In 10 years we have had 4 guys make some sort of impact at the Major League level. Now lets look at the A’s:

Barry Zito
Mark Mulder
Tim Hudson
Aaron Harang
Rich Harden
Joe Blanton
Dallas Braden
Greg Smith
Justin Duchscherer

And they meanwhile have Brett Anderson, Gio Gonzalez, Trevor Cahill making an impact at the MLB level and likely to have good careers as well.

Not only have the A’s developed significantly more starters, but the quality of them blows us away as well. Am I supposed to believe that this is a coincidence? That the A’s simply acquired as many pitchers as possible and lucked out? No, they took the right gambles. They knew what they were looking for.

by roswalt44 on Jun 10, 2010 1:48 PM CDT reply actions  

Well the Astros had many other pitching prospects who were very good and could have been top flight starters if they hadn’t sustained injuries. Nieve, Buccholz, and Hernandez come to mind. (Hernandez’s injury was a freak occurrence, as it happened in a base slide.) Brad Lidge was a starting pitcher who was shifted to reliever in the majors due to concerns about his arm injuries. Scott Elarton was a high quality pitching prospect who never reached his potential to be a top of the rotation guy due to injury. (Elarton did have a ML career though.) The Astros had another pitching prospect in the early 2000’s who pitched a shutout in his debut, whose name escapes me, who subsequently went on the DL never to be heard from again. One could argue that this says something about the way that the Astros player development system dealt with protecting pitchers from injury, and that may be right. It’s hard to know.

Statistically speaking, yes it is possible that the A’s success with pitching prospects is largely due to luck (I’m not saying it is). If you took distributed all of the major league prospects over the last 10 years among 31 teams, it wouldn’t be surprising to see that kind of result just from randomness. Again, I’m not disagreeing that Billy Bean (and perhaps the pitching coach, Rick Peterson) did a good job acquiring pitching. But it may be that they had a marked preference for acquiring pitchers and accepted the Hunsicker theory of “acquire as many pitching prospects as possible” in order to improve their odds.

by clack on Jun 10, 2010 2:02 PM CDT up reply actions  

Zito, Mulder and Blanton were all 1st round picks. Since ‘98 they’ve drafted 10 pitchers in the 1st round. The Astros have drafted 6 pitchers with their 1st round picks.

btw, Smith, Duchsherer, or Gonzalez are not products of the Oakland farm system. The thing about Oakland is they often trade veterans off for pitching or they don’t resign their veterans and gain extra draft picks. The Astros in the late ’90s and through the decade rarely trade off veterans for prospects and they either resign their guys or sign Type A free agents losing their 1st round picks.

So Oakland has more opportunity to develop players (most of the guys listed were drafted in the 1st through 6th rounds) than the Astros. This is what TNSTAAPP is all about…..

by Reverend Koosh on Jun 10, 2010 2:41 PM CDT up reply actions  

just some points

talyor bucholz has pitched well, but had to have surgery after his really good year…not sure if he is back yet…

also does anyone remember that sunday day game when jennings gave up 12 runs in the 1st v.s the padres!

Great article and great read…Rec’d

by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jun 10, 2010 2:30 PM CDT reply actions  

I still think Tim Purpura has to be given significantly more blame than Hunsicker. Hunsicker built our team that won three straight division titles, after finishing second in his first two years on the job. I know he inherited a good team himself and I’m not by any means calling Hunsicker some genius wizard of sorts, but Tim Purpura isn’t even remotely in the same ball park. Tim POOPURA lead us to the World Series in 2005 on a team he inherited, and did really nothing more. I know he was a complete puppet with Drayton and Tal running the show, but to even put the majority blame on Hunsicker just doesn’t seem fit to me. We can continuously blame Drayton or we can blame who we are supposed to be blaming. The puppet, TIM POOPURA.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Jun 10, 2010 2:47 PM CDT reply actions  

Purpura was indeed bad, but he had limited options.

I wouldn’t say I’d defend Purpura too much (I think I might have started a petition to get him sacked), although I would say that while most/all of the choices he made were bad ones, he did not have many options.

Don’t forget he acquired Preston Wilson thinking he would be a power threat. Very silly man indeed.

by AstroB on Jun 10, 2010 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions  

It doesn't matter

Even if Purpura was a puppet, he had no business being a MLB GM. Drayton and Co. are hit and miss when hiring, usually going for in experience. Bob Watson had no experience, Hunsicker very little as a GM (I think a year or two in NY), then Purpura. It took Drayton 15 years to hire an experienced GM and he hired who many consider the worst GM in baseball.

Even managers…Terry Collins, Larry Dierker, Cecil Cooper and Brad Mills have/had no big league managing experience. Only Jimy Williams and Phil Garner had experience…and Garner only had 1 winning season (out of 10) prior to being hired to replace Williams mid season.

by Reverend Koosh on Jun 10, 2010 3:03 PM CDT up reply actions  

Yeah I was being a little sarcastic

Purpura is too blame, but everyone uses the excuse that Drayton made this decision and made this GM do that. Well looks like Ed Wade finally sunk it through his head that building through the draft is the best way to win in the long run. I guess it could be Drayton seeing his product getting older and producing less that finally gave him the initiative to be so less hands on. That joke of a signing of Woody Williams. 2 years for 12.5 million (who was a Type A) and trading so much for Jason Jennings, who was coming off a career year. He went 9-13.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Jun 10, 2010 3:22 PM CDT up reply actions  

well said

Experience costs money and when the Astros had a chance at Manny Acta they balked and went with the cheaper Mills.

by Timothy De Block on Jun 10, 2010 6:33 PM CDT up reply actions  

I actually really like Brad Mills over Manny Acta, not just due to the fact we are winning of late, but because I wanted him to be the manager since his name was thrown into the running. Red Sox ties and a winning attitude. Mills also has accountability and a positive attitude, which was Coopers flaw.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Jun 10, 2010 8:04 PM CDT reply actions  

Well done! Glad to know you take requests, and happy to see another country we can add to the Foreign Fans list.

by AstroAndy on Jun 10, 2010 8:18 PM CDT reply actions  

Fundamentally Disagree

Tim Purpura is probably the worst general manager ever. Hiis consistent mismanagement of the draft, arbitration process, and free agency was mind boggling. How could he possibly think it was a good idea to sign an aging Woody Williams to a multi-year contract while giving up a draft pick in the process? Other terrible moves as well, but it just makes me angry to think about them all.

Hunsicker wasn’t perfect, but he was pretty good. Better than average for sure. Also, I know he’s only the assistant GM in Tampa, but they’ve done pretty well since he’s been there. Jury is still out on Wade, but at least he is competent. Can’t say that for Timmy P.

by jmike on Jun 10, 2010 10:03 PM CDT reply actions  

On a tangent, the really inexplicable decision was signing Woody Williams before the arbitration deadline. That automatically required the Astros to give the Padres a draft choice. If the Astros had waited until after that deadline, it is very likely that the Padres would have declned to offer him arbitration, and the Astros could have signed him without losing a draft choice.

by clack on Jun 11, 2010 7:55 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't get your point

Wade has done a decent job with what he has been asked to do.

Purpura was a yes-man that has to get great blame for his tenure if only because of the horrible damage and embarrassment it left in wake.

McLane is really the one to blame and it is impossible not to see that now. He forced employees to grasp at a possibility that simply was unattainable and it has completely destroyed this organization.

Your article blaming injuries on Hunsicker is sketchy at best. Hunsicker was run out(fired) of Houston because of his souring relationship with Drayton. And what Hunsicker has done since needs not be written to be understood.

My first mistake was assuming you knew what I was talking about.

by Shamus on Jun 10, 2010 10:19 PM CDT reply actions  

So Hunsicker should be canonised?

The point I was trying to make was more subtle than simply blaming Hunsicker. I was trying to show that the guys the Astros drafted and developed 2000+ had very little impact on the club, and have not helped Purpura or Wade when what they needed was young talent coming up through the system the most.

Nobody said drafting players is an exact science, but if it is all just a total lottery, why do some teams do far better than others? How is it that an entire draft class spanning five years has failed so abysmally to produce players that can get to the majors and succeed on a consistent basis?

by AstroB on Jun 11, 2010 6:21 AM CDT up reply actions  

I don't think Hunsicker is the best GM by any means

Tim Purpura is a laughing stock though. There is no doubt about that. I just don’t see how blaming a guy who stood up to McLane and at least kept an eye on the farm, rather than disregarding it (Tim Poop) can get so much flack. Its not like Hunsicker had any high picks to ever work with (except Chris Burke) during his tenure either. He made some great acquisitions like Jeriome Robertson for Willy Taveras and Luke Scott. He traded basically nothing for Beltran. Sure John Buck is still in the league and so is Octavio Dotel. None of them were about to hit all of those home runs Beltran hit in the Playoffs of 2004. Hunsicker traded John Halama, Carlos Guillen and Freddy Garcia for Randy Johnson. That trade may not have been as lopsided as the others, but nobody can deny the impact Randy had for our team in 98. In 98, the playoff schedule screwed us over. Having to face Kevin Brown twice in three games. I know there is an article around here about that somewhere. I was only 9 in 1998 though I’ve followed the Astros since I can remember. Sure Hunsicker didn’t leave the team in the greatest condition, but thats what happens when you are in WIN NOW mode, willing to sacrifice anything for a World Series title. Not a division title, Drayton likes to call “championships”. When comparing Hunsicker and Poopura, I’ll put Hunsicker on a pedestal any day and every day.

by SteveBartman_MVP on Jun 11, 2010 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions  

Moises Alou

Now that was a sweet deal. Oscar Henriquez and scrubs for Alou? Yes please, may I have another?

by jmike on Jun 11, 2010 6:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Don't think

anyone’s canonizing Hunsicker. But if I were ranking the last 3 general managers of the Astros. It would definitely be (1) Hunsicker, (2) Wade, (3) Purpura.

by jmike on Jun 11, 2010 6:37 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think they ALL sucked!!

And, I think that clack, OremLK and David Coleman could run circles around either one of those guys!!

by titansfan4ever on Jun 14, 2010 4:49 PM CDT reply actions  

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