Should the Astros make a move for Willy Taveras? A Response
As I was contemplating what to write today's article on, I stumbled across this blog post by the Chronicle's new Astros beat writer Bernardo Fallas. It was entitled 'Should the Astros make a move for Willy Taveras?' I chuckled to myself, thinking this was a tongue-in-cheek headline. After all, the Astros already have a centerfielder that does everything Taveras does and more, a full bench with bats more potent than his and prospects to take their place for cheaper if needed.
Why on earth would the Astros want Taveras?
Well, friends, Fallas was being serious. He laid out his argument for Taveras, saying he owns a home here and works out with his former teammates. While the idea was ridiculous to me on the surface, I gave Fallas the benefit of the doubt. That is, until I came to this:
Also, if healthy, he can put up decent numbers - his career high for stolen bases is 68 in 2008. He is a career .276 batter with a .321 OBP.
'Decent numbers' revolve around a solid batting average and stolen bases, apparently. I mean, he wasn't referring to a .320 OBP as decent, right? When the league average was .333, anything below that has to be considered something other than decent, right? But, maybe I'm being to harsh on him. After all, Mr. Fallas just moved over from the soccer beat. He may just not have had the time to read all the wonderful articles about sabermetric thinking yet. Heck, I'm sure he hasn't even had time to read about Moneyball or how Branch Rickey used to emphasize OBP back with the Dodgers.
That has to explain why Fallas tries to reason out where Taveras will land, since Oakland surely doesn't want to lose him for nothing and will try to trade him. Maybe he doesn't realize that BIlly Beane is a shrewder negotiator than that; if he wants to trade a player, he doesn't put himself in a postion where he HAS to trade said player. Not to mention the fact that any team trading for him assumes his contract as well. You know, the one that pays 4 million dollars who has a -.3 WAR the past two seasons and .7 WAR in the past three.
No, he's probably still picking up on things like that. Now that my snarkiness is out of the way, let's go to some bullet points to better illustrate why this would be a bad idea.
- Oakland basically acquired Taveras to pick up Adam Rosales, a young utility infielder. The A's already have a ton of outfielders and they weren't going to let Taveras clog up that rotation. He probably views Taveras as the opportunity cost to pick up Rosales and treated him as such by DFA'ing him hours after acquiring him.
- What skillset does Taveras offer? I already mentioned his low OBP, but how about his 5% walk rate or his 16% strikeout rate? Or his .35 BB/K ratio? Or his .045 ISO? Does that sound like a good bench player to you? He'd basically just be a pinch-runner, right? No one would run him out there to pinch hit unless he was the last guy on the bench, right?
- At least his defense is pretty sound. Outside of posting negative UZRs in spacious Colorado, Taveras has had a pretty good track record in the field. His range is good, he has a sneaky good arm and can cover some ground. Of course, he's also getting older, slower and more brittle, thus more susceptible to injuries. That sounds like the perfect defensive replacement in the outfield. Or Darin Erstad. Your pick.
- As I mentioned, Taveras has been almost exactly useless by WAR standards for the past two seasons. This in spite of the fact that he put up relatively good defensive numbers. Do you know how bad you have to be with the bat to post a negative WAR with 8.3 fielding runs above replacement? Try negative 27 runs above replacement. It appears Taveras was hitting too many fly balls and not enough ground balls, as his GB% was the lowest of his career and his FB% was the highest. Granted both of these came in a very limited sample size, but it's not encouraging.
- The other factor here is that the Astros already have to fairly decent defensive outfielders who can hit a little on the bench. If they needed a defense first guy, they'd look no further than Yordany Ramirez. If they needed a guy with a little more pop, they've got Brian Bogusevic. While Jason Michaels and Cory Sullivan don't light up the eyes of Astros fans, they're still better than Taveras.
- There is always a touch of nostalgia that comes with players returning to a team. With Taveras, he played on two of the most successful Astros teams in the history of the franchise. In 2004, his team won the first postseason series in club history. In 2005, of course, he went to the World Series. People quickly forget that his offensive struggles were also a reason why the Astros didn't score enough runs against the White Sox. Time heals all fan memories, but statistics don't lie. I'm betting Ed Wade will rely more on the latter than on the former. UPDATE: timmy rightly checked my facts on this. I didn't do my due diligence and am rightfully shamed.
Now, I know how this probably comes off. The snobby blogger takes down the hard-working sports reporter. I don't mean to be like that. Fallas is a good reporter that did some great work on the Dynamo the past few years. He even helped me out on a story with The Eagle a few years back, getting me hooked up with the Dynamo's front office. And I get the point of posts like this. You want to generate comments by stirring things up. Goodness knows I've made some pot-stirring posts in the past, playing devil's advocate on losing Manny Acta, exploring trade possibilities for Roy Oswalt and Lance Berkman, etc. It's what we do until real baseball happens again. I get that's what he was trying to do. I just also know that I haven't seen Zach Levine, Brian McTaggart or, most tellingly, Richard Justice making this same point.
Should the Astros bring back Willy T? The short answer is, Ahhh, no. I guess I could have saved us all some time by writing that at the beginning, eh?
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25 comments
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Comments
Willy Taveras
I am contesting your claim:
People quickly forget that his offensive struggles were also a reason why the Astros didn’t score enough runs against the White Sox.
As I recall I remember Willy T twice hitting doubles to start an inning and the Astros failing to drive him in. I believe one was the 1-0 loss in game 4. For statistical reference for the World Series in 2005 he had a .412 OBP .600 SLG 1.012 OPS true he didn’t walk but he did have 2 HBP and 5 hits (2 doubles and 1 triple). I don’t think Willy T was the reason the Astros didn’t score runs.
by timmy_ on Feb 4, 2010 8:24 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
My initial reaction to Fallas’ article was to cringe and say, “No!.” However, after more objective contemplation, I don’t think it’s a crazy idea to use Willy T as a 4th or 5th outfielder if he is paid something just above a league minimum salary. The cringe reaction comes from how bad he is as a starting outfielder. But, if he would accept the role, he would be a decent bench outfielder to play as a defensive replacement, pinch run, and occasionally pinch hit if you want an infield hit to get someone on base. My guess is that he probably is better than Cory Sullivan, who likely will end up as the 5th outfielder for the Astros. CHONE projects 0.1 WAR for Sullivan and 1.4 WAR for Taveras. Taveras is younger and faster than Sullivan; Sullivan likely will produce a better OBP but lessor defense. I’m not really arguing that the Astros should sign Taveras, though. (I would be concerned about his willingness to accept the role and lack of playing time.)
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 8:41 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
I also don’t buy that he’d accept league minimum, which is why I think it’d be easier to just bring up Ramirez if you want that particular skill set.
by David Coleman on Feb 4, 2010 8:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I’d much rather use Ramirez. Taveras posted a .559 OPS last year. Some part of that was bad BABIP luck, but… .559 OPS.
by OremLK on Feb 4, 2010 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand Ramirez as a defensive replacement, but what about his speed? I am just thinking about those few times we would (if it happened) allow Taveras to pinch hit, Taveras turning his infield single into two bases by stealing on the first or second pitch of the next atbat. But then again, Ramirez could have more pop than Taveras. I have no idea. What are your thoughts?
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
by BigNate7 on Feb 4, 2010 9:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yordany Ramirez’s major league equivalents (MLE) from last year: .222 BA 0.234 OBP 0.316 SLG 0.550
Ramirez has very good speed and I don’t think he loses much in a comparison to Taveras on that basis. But I’m not sure if he is a good base stealer or not. He hasn’t been a huge base stealer in AAA (19 last year and 14 this year). I don’t know if that is just the way the Round Rock manager used him or if it reflects base stealing skills which are worse than Taveras’.
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 9:39 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Bogusevic actually had more stolen bases last season with 22 in 25 chances. But, his defense isn’t nearly as good as Ramirez. I think Yordany’s speed is good enough to pinch-run, but it’s not as explosive as Taveras’ was. Of course, with all the injuries, who knows whether Willy T still has that same burst.
by David Coleman on Feb 4, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yordanny Ramirez
Is the fastest baseball player I have ever seen. Period.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Feb 5, 2010 12:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh Lisa...
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Feb 5, 2010 1:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Bourn had a .588 OPS in 2008 for the Astros. His bounceback from bad BABIP luck didn’t turn out so badly. But I agree that Yordany Ramirez is a better choice if the primary purpose is defense. It would be interesting to see Ramirez actually playing as a defensive replacement for Carlos Lee in the 8th and 9th inning. Not many balls would hit the ground in LF. I think Taveras probably would be a better hitter than Yordany, even though neither is likely to be good.
By the way, I had to laugh at some of the commenters on Fallas’ blog who want Willy T back. Someone said something like, “Signing Willy would convince Astros’ fans that the team is serious about contending.”
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 9:16 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Well, Bourn had a .588 OPS in 2008 for the Astros. His bounceback from bad BABIP luck didn’t turn out so badly.
Not sure this totally works as a comparison, though, because Taveras has already had five full or nearly full MLB seasons as a starter… four of them were below .672 OPS, and the last two were .604 and .559 respectively. 2008 was Bourn’s first full season as a starter, so it made sense that he would struggle to find his footing.
by OremLK on Feb 4, 2010 9:21 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t saying that Taveras would be as good as Bourn; I was just pointing out that rebounding from bad BABIP luck can produce seasons above the player’s average.
By the way, when I looked up the OPS for Bourn in 2008, I happened to notice the projections for Bourn, and they are surprisingly bad. CHONE projects nearly the same WAR for Taveras and Bourn. CHONE has Bourn at 1.6, and Taveras at 1.4. CHONE projects 0.7 batting for Bourn and -1 on defense. That may be a good example why not to trust CHONE’s defensive projection (is it Total Zone?). The fans project -1.3 on offense and 6.9 on defense for Bourn-at least the fans seem more reasonable on defense.
I can understand if someone projects some regression on offense for Bourn, but those seem very pessimistic.
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 9:28 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
ignore the strike throughs, above; I don’t how they got their. I must have accidently clicked on strike outs without knowing it.
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 9:29 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
A funny note on Taveras: He is one of the only players I’ve seen that CHONE lists with a better WAR than the fans did. That should say something, but I’m not sure what.
by David Coleman on Feb 4, 2010 9:44 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Some of those guys are getting a bit mean in there! They’re getting a little personal in their attacks of Fallas…namely someone going by “J in TX.” Justice maybe? Trying to bash his “competition?” I love conspiracies!
by Sarcastros on Feb 4, 2010 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
His mistake is that he’s actually responding to that rabble over on chron.com. Every time I read the comments section over there (with the exception of someone like Lance Z’s blog), it makes me feel so glad we have such good and thoughtful commenters here. We have a great community here and it’s thanks to all you guys and gals.
That is, until you start bashing me or calling me names. Then all bets are off…
by David Coleman on Feb 4, 2010 3:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
David Coleman is a $##$^^*&^(#%@$#$^^(%!#$%^&^$%%%&*&($^#$#$$#$ and he smells like a #!#$%%&())(&^#$##$#!!$%@#$^!
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
by BigNate7 on Feb 4, 2010 3:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
JK
I like your work and your comments. Man, I wonder why it turned out like that. I just held shitf down and pressed a bunch of numbers.
Miss-placed Houstonian living and going to school in the wilderness of Wyoming. Fresno St. 28 - Wyoming 35 (2 OT)!!! Hands down best game I have ever been to.
by BigNate7 on Feb 4, 2010 3:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
TCB's article was picked up on Baseball Think Factory's newstand....
I wonder if any of those saber types put some comments on Fallas’ blog? There are some comments on the TCB article. Those of you who know Lisa Gray (baseball chick is her handle at BBTF) will notice that she jumps into the BTF comments. BBTF link.
by clack on Feb 4, 2010 7:47 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes bring him back!
He’s that top order energizer, to pair with Bourn.
A’s are already on hook for his contract whether he’s dfa’d, traded, or not.
by MagicMike23 on Feb 4, 2010 12:18 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Who exactly do you think he’s going to replace in the lineup to be that “top of the order energizer?” Certainly not Lee or Pence.
by Sarcastros on Feb 4, 2010 1:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If I did memes, this comment would get a good ’ol Picard face-palm.
Sigh.
by OremLK on Feb 4, 2010 1:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, I thought it was cool to lead off with guys with OBP's in the .320s
It’s still 1962, right?
by Only_A_Lad on Feb 4, 2010 4:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I understand some who would want him back
but his best way to get on base is through infield singles and usually you want your pinch hitters to have a little pop in their bats or at least enough to move a man from 1st to 3rd. Obviously his biggest asset is his speed and he’d be a great pinch runner to have but we have enough speed on our team where we don’t need someone who specializes in that. Two of our outfielders have good or great speed, our middle infielders the same and if Towles and Castro end up being our catching duo at some point then most of our line up don’t need to have someone pinch run for them because all of those guys have at least average or above average speed. No need for Willy T.
by Astrosws20 on Feb 5, 2010 1:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

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