More Astros prospect rankings (with some philosophizing, too)
I'm not a prospecter. I enjoy listening to those who are knowledgeable about the business of evaluating and prognosticating about a prospect's future, but I, myself, have never had the desire to role up my selves and dig into the business. I have a tremendous amount of respect for old school scouting, but as an analytically inclined fan of baseball, their trade has always felt too mushy. Not that it isn't incredibly valuable, it just doesn't speak to me the way the statistical revolution in baseball has.
With the advent of the youtube, MiLB TV, and a smorgasbord of prospect websites, there are a plethora of insights, conjectures, and theories about swing technique, pitching motion, and everything in between. We have even discussed the possibility of such avenues allowing for fans to provide the same quality of information that old school scouts do. None of this, however, has the air of certainty that the continual refinement of measuring player's production has reached at the major league level.
Why the philosophizing? Well, this weekend I received a copy of Diamond Future's Prospect eGuide. I had never heard of them before and I'm sad that I had not. After burning through my standard four cups of coffee (four cups is standard, there's an additional cup before lunch, and then a cup after lunch as well) Sunday morning, I popped open the pdf and got to reading. The introduction served as both an apology to the scouting community, but also as a primer for what I can best describe as a PECOTA-esque engine for prospects.
Their methodology and end measures are phenomenal. The typical 20-80 scale has be fit to a bell curve, with a score at either end representing a distance of three standard deviations. Based on a prospect's scores amongst the various skill components that Diamond Future tracks, compatible matches are found across a pool of 12,000+ players, ranked, and career then trajectories modeled. Grades are then doled out to players based on percentage odds at achieving both a MLB career and also the likelihood of reaching elite status at their position (graded on an A-C scale). It is an exact science full of margins of error, but the approach speaks to me nonetheless.
It speaks to me for a few reasons. Mostly because the end results are not acronyms, they're numbers that people already understand.
Recently, Will Carroll started a flurry of discussion in a BPro Unfiltered piece about how the broader message of sabermetric inquiry can be transmitted in a way that the average fan can understand and utilize without having to spend several days reading through archives of websites, pouring over formulas, and understanding the meaning of correlation coefficients. He asked for a gateway drug.* I don't want to suggest that Diamond Guide's work is that gateway drug; rather that it is a step in the right direction. I feel like the average fan could pick this book up, skip the first few pages of methodology, and read each and every player evaluation and understand what they were looking at with no assistance. All they would need to know is that a score of 50 is average, and a score of 80 or 20 means that that player is in the extreme top or bottom of their position for that skill set. That's pretty easy to orient, and it's in a familiar context. Yet in spite of its simplicity, it brings about an understanding of player's skill sets that are very much the way that "stat heads" think about them. There is something laud about that kind of result.
That is not all that the impresses me about the Diamond Guide, though. Like I said, I'm not a prospector, but I think I've read, and reread every player evaluation for the Astros, and found that I have a far more nuanced understanding of our player's skill sets. Much more so than I have gained on my own by pulling stats from Minor League Splits, comparing them with other players, etc. Moreover, the fact that there is a projection engine, of sorts, built into the evaluation provides me a greater understanding of just how likely it is that Ross Seaton might be a MLB contributor, but I can also key in on exactly where he has to improve. Or, I can discover player's I've previously overlooked (like Jose Altuve (a B- minus guy, whom I am now greatly, greatly enamored with). The thread I'm trying to connect is that it can take two untapped groups of fans, stat-heads with a weariness for prospecting and casual fans who just want to know who is coming through the pipes, and both orient and inform then quickly and efficiently.
To me, that is impressive. But I'll quit fawning and get to some of the more interesting tidbits I gleaned from the Diamond Guide about the Astros.
The eGuide includes each team's organizational rankings that are based on the cumulative projected WAR of every prospect in system graded A to C. Thankfully, the Astros are ranked 29th with 98.6 WAR. Last is reserved for the St. Louis Cardinals (97.8...or no real difference). As nice as it is to see the Astros ranked not last, the difference between the bottom five teams is meaningless in the statistical sense. A scant 5 WAR separate them, while the error bands for a cumulative projection of 30+ prospect's future, in some instances based on 250 PA or less, is wide...to put it mildly. Although there is plenty of wiggle room in the rankings, the lack of differentiation between the vast majority of farm systems, using the Diamond Guide methodology, was fascinating to see. While the Astros are considered to have a poor farm system, they are not significantly worse than say the Brewers, who are ranked 23rd with 106.4 WAR.
Flitting through the various prospects' grades from other farm systems,I what I managed to gather was the Astros are devoid of sexy prospects by comparison. What they aren't devoid of is high floor/low ceiling guys, fringe contributors, and guys with measurable upside. Given that the Astros are only two years into a full on rebuilding process—one that began after pretty much pressing reset—I am more impressed with Bobby Heck, and his team of scouts, than ever before. That says a lot. I mean, I finished designing the "In Bobby Heck We Trust" shirt just before I read the eGuide.
Do I walk away from the prospect rankings overwhelmed by the players upon whom the Astros will be counting soon enough? Not really. But I'm confident in enough of them after seeing their skill set breakdowns. I'll certainly be keeping tabs guys I found in the rankings, like Altuve, and checking back in on Diamond Guide regularly. If you've got $10, I suggest picking up a copy. It's a pretty enjoyable way to spend a Sunday afternoon.
*My suggestion for a gateway drug is the out, by the way. The out was what got through to me first, so maybe I am biased. But the out is a universally understood concept across the spectrum of fans and is the corner stone for just about any advanced metric. Why is OBP better than BA? It measures out production. Why is ERA dumb? Because it makes the out irrelevant in accessing a pitcher in too many instances. How do you start explaining BABIP? Outs. K:BB ratio? Outs to freebies? Leverage? The importance of outs in terms of their similarity to a play clock. It could go on, but I think that sabermetrics is easily processed by starting off with the out as it is a pretty innocuous way to bring someone down the rabbit hole.
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The challenge for all of them is the size of the endeavor. Thirty teams with 5 or so affiliates is a lot.
I didn’t see the PDF, but I did scroll back in the blog and I can see why they’re not high on the brewers. A lot of players that are in the conversation as prospects either aren’t on their longer than most list or buried in the hinterlands. Without a blog like Sickels or chats like Law and BA, its hard to tell much about their thinking, but I wonder if its a matter of just not being familiar or whether they look at some of the players and evaluate them lower than most.
I know when I read Law and BP, I don’t think they know the system well and sometimes seem downright irritated at their existence. They’ve got the rep though, that their thoughts get repeated and become widespread. One example is that Mat Gamel is horrific defensively which is debatable, but that he’ll struggle in right because his arm is weak. That’s flat out wrong and it turns out that he has one of the strongest arms in the system.
The 2001 list, the current lead article on their blog, is interesting. CPat is a top prospect and Soriano is listed as a SS/2B.
Looking over their 2001 list is interesting for the way its bring back old memories. I was impressed that they had Albert Pujols so high. My recollection is that Pujols wasn’t that highly rated by most scouts, going into the 2001 season. Pujols’ trajectory rose very quickly. (After the 2001 ML season, though, everyone knew about his ability.) Oswalt and Redding were rated in the top 40 (Oswalt at 16).
I didn’t look at their ratings of Brewers’ prospects. And I’m not a real prospect maven. But I’ve always been high on Lawrie and Gamel, ol Pete. However, it seems like the Brewers tend to have a lot of prospects who are terrific hitters but fit in the “what position can they play?” box. Is there really reason to give up on Gamel at 3d base? Is he worse than Braun was at 3d base? Lawrie has always been a fairly athletic guy, but that may have hurt him throughout his prep career; he was viewed as a great hitter, and he was just put into whatever position was available, depending on the positions played by others on the team. I don’t know if he will succeed at a 2d baseman, but if he does, he could be a Jeff Kent type infielder.
Gamel is one of those guys who can make a web gem one play and then later in the game have a routine grounder roll up his arm. I have no idea how that works out, but he’s not what he’s usually portrayed as – unskilled and inept. Sickels to his credit refers to his defense as inconsistent and I think that’s right.
The team is definitely not giving up on him at 3rd. He’s working with Randolph this spring and then will probably go to Nashville and work some more with Don Money.
I think Lawrie wanted to try and be a catcher because it would be a quicker route to the majors. I thought he was primarily a 3B in school, but I’m not sure. The high A team he was on last season televised some games here and he did have sort of an outward appearance of not being totally into defense, although very athletic. I don’t know, but that could be one of those things that gives a few scouts that impression and then that rep is repeated.
Jeff Kent sounds right, well, hopefully.
The big bat, questionable glove is interesting. I don’t know what sort of discussions go on behind the scenes, but Braun and Fielder were drafted by Jack Z, who seems like he’s really into defense nowadays. I thought Melvin was mostly hands off, but who knows. Gamel was a 4th rounder IIRC, so in a way he doesn’t count. I still think his bat makes him a MLB regular. Lawrie was drafted by new guy Bruce Seid.
I like lists.....
But it seems like a “name” has become a tangible quality which bumps players up these lists. Just in the past week or so I have looked at all the new Top Prospect lists and have made the “really…?” comment many times. I can’t understand how some players get placed so much higher than others.
I guess these lists are swayed towards ceiling over actual performance.
Ex. #73 Shelby Miller Career numbers: A 3IP!!!: 6 ERA. vs #89 Jordan Lyles
How does someone with virtually zero pro ball experience rank higher than someone who posted a 2.42 FIP, 10.39K/9, 2.36BB/9, 1.1 WHIP in a full season in A ball?
I'm glad it was appreciated
It was the first picture that populated when I pulled Astros pictures from the AP. I didn’t even try to find another one.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Feb 24, 2010 10:20 PM CST up reply actions

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