Another Spring Question: What's the Astros Lineup Like?
In the midst of a pretty upbeat story by Brain McTaggart on some of the questions the Astros face this spring, he bummed me out. Not because of Castro starting at catcher or Lindstrom being the closer, it was when he brought up the lineup. Here is what we know so far and where there are openings:
2) ???
4) Carlos Lee
5) Hunter Pence
6) ????
7) ????
8) ?????
9) Pitcher
That leaves Kaz Matsui, Pedro Feliz, Jason Castro and Tommy Manzella all yet to find a slot. Assuming Manzella hits seventh or eighth, where do you hit Matsui? Or Castro? Or even Feliz?
Of course, I wrote yesterday about how Feliz normally hits in the seventh spot, but he's got some experience hitting sixth. If he can put the ball in play, maybe his batting average will make up for his low OBP and SLG. It's also tempting to slot someone like Jason Castro into that No. 2 spot, but without a proven track record in the majors, I see him batting seventh or eighth with Manzella.
Yes, that means Matsui is pretty much your two-hitter. This lineup reminds me a lot of the 2005 group that went to the World Series. Both had as many question marks and offensive black holes. The difference was the Astros had excellent pitching in 2005. If Myers is healthy and one of the bottom three starters steps up, the Astros could have a decent pitching staff. Asking them to be dominant may be a bit much.
What do you think? Will Brad Mills change things up? Is there any way to avoid having a sub-.310 OBP guy hitting second?
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Pence could bat second.
Given that he is terrible on the basepaths, this is far from the ideal solution. You also might get less out of his 20-30 HR and leave the back end of the lineup a black hole.
Still, his offensive production per plate appearance is much, much higher than Matsui’s, and his OBP is far better. You get a handful of extra plate appearances from him, which is better than a handful of better plate appearances from Matsui.
Towles and Castro could both become options as the seasons wears on if they prove themselves with breakout seasons. Both have average or better speed, potentially good contact skills and patience.
If it were me, I’d even consider doing something radical and batting Berkman second. Lance’s best attribute is actually his OBP, not his slugging, and he would be by far the best player to allow Bourn to advance with his patient plate approach. Being our best hitter, those extra plate appearances he gets are also significant. In this case, either Lee or Pence bats third and the other bats cleanup. This would be extremely unconventional though and I would be surprised to see Mills do it.
I agree
Simply for the fact that you’re giving more AB’s to pence.
I’d also think with Pence batting 2nd it would be advantageous to bat the pitcher 8th and Matsui 9th, Feliz 5th, Castro/Towles 6th, and Manzella 7th.
by Timothy De Block on Feb 19, 2010 12:24 PM CST up reply actions
I hear you, I really do. I actually use this strategy with my WhatifSports team. But, I think big league managers, even progressive ones like Manny Acta, may be years away from adopting this kind of philosophy.
by David Coleman on Feb 19, 2010 1:41 PM CST up reply actions
skip the #2 batter
Just move Berkman up into the two hole, followed by Lee, Pence, Feliz etc..
Why try to force the issue?
by Johnathan Neil Bush on Feb 19, 2010 7:08 PM CST up reply actions
I like Matsui in the 2 slot. It is where he batted productively in 2008. In that season, I thought Matsui had some traits which really made him a good No. 2 hitter: ability to get on with a bunt; ability to sacrifice and with good odds of turning it into a hit; most importantly he fouled off a ton of pitches, which is very helpful in the 2 slot (he saw more pitches/PA than any other Astros hitter that season, if I recall; he was also fast enough to avoid the DP. Of course, this depends on whether Matsui can achieve an OBP at least as good as his 2008 season. Unfortunately, if you bat Matsui down in the lineup, you waste the few good things he can do.
Pence is difficult to slot. I sometimes preferred him at No. 2 in last year’s lineup, mostly because I didn’t like Tejada in that slot. But in this year’s lineup, I prefer Pence behind Lee. Berkman, in theory, would be best in the No. 2 slot. but I agree with David that this isn’t something many, if any, managers would do with this lineup. I am sastisfied with Berkman at the 3 slot—mostly because I want to see the Astros’ best hitter come up in the first inning.
I agree.
Matsui belongs in the number 2 slot. Where did he bat in 2009?
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
He was the lead off hitter early in the season, because Bourn started out the season in the 7 or 8 slot. Later in the season, Matsui hit in the 7 or 8 slot, and, I think, was put back in the 2 slot in the last couple of months when he began to hit better. So, the significant amount of his time was split in 2009 among the 1,2, 7, and 8 slots.
Alright,
well if my vote counts for anything, leave him in the number 2 spot.
Baseball season coulnd’t get here soon enough.
" Answers -- Become Resources."
Without Questions; There are limited Resources...
What happens if Mike Lamb wins the second base job?
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Feb 21, 2010 10:44 PM CST up reply actions
Assuming the four already slotted stay
Matsui bats second
Feliz sixth
Flip a coin on Towles (or Quintero) and Manzella. If Manzella bats as poorly as Adam Everett, slot him in at 8 and Q or Towles 7th.
If the four slotted can be moved, I’d move Berkman. He’s not really a three hole hitter IMO. Personally I’d like him to lead off; but since the rest of baseball kind won’t agree, I’d move him back to fourth. Now who to third??? Is Pence ready to make that move? Does Carlos Lee have the power (does he need power with Berkman behind him?) Will Lee hit into too many DPs batting third? or do we slot Berkman there because Astros have nobody else.
I’m torn about Pence batting second instead of Matsui. For one thing, Matsui has limited options as to his most productive slot whereas Pence can deliver in several key roles. I guess then that even if Pence is a better second slot batter than Matsui (which may not be the case), I think I’d bat Matsui second. If the Astros had more production from 6, 7, 8, and 9, I might be tempted to move Matsui to the bottom half of the lineup and start the big four in the first four slots; but a bottom five of Feliz-Towles- Matsui-Manzella- Pitcher sends me into a panic attack.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Feb 19, 2010 2:42 PM CST reply actions
The only problem with dropping Berkman back a notch is you lose his high OBP at the top of the order. I do like the idea of him batting second, but realistically, you have to get his bat into the top third.
by David Coleman on Feb 19, 2010 3:43 PM CST up reply actions
Here's a link to Kaz's stats according to batting order position
by Timothy De Block on Feb 19, 2010 2:55 PM CST reply actions
If you look at Kaz’s splits from 2008, though, it is quite good. .360 OBP in No. 2 slot and .351 OBP in No. 1 slot.
Link
If he is healthy (OK, I know a big IF), I think he can attain those same numbers. I would basically throw out Kaz’s stats in NYC. I think he had problems transitioning to the American culture in one of the hardest places to play in the majors. Also, the Mets believed that they had gotten a Japanese slugger, and they wanted him to swing for the fences.
Well Pence is the better hitter, so he would improve the 2 or 5 slot. The real question is where does Matsui fit best? If you move Pence to #2, then the problem becomes 5-9 becomes a black hole. No question, Matsui had a bad year last year. But there’s a good chance he is closer to his career obp of .325.

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