Friday Astros Minor Thoughts
Another Friday, another edition of the finest minor league thoughts I can muster. Today, we’ll cover a possible team in Sugar Land, more draft talk, an easier-to-read Top 10 prospect list and questions about local collegiate players.
Stay till the end to catch an important note about an exciting development over at Farmstros. If you must go over to his site first, you must. But you can also stay till the end of my column. Either way, the news is very cool.
As first reported by Channel 2 in Houston, the Sugar Land city council recently approved a measure that paved the way for a minor league baseball stadium to be built there. The council gave a 90-day window for investors to seek a deal with a minor league team that would begin play in a new stadium starting in 2012. (h/t to John Lopez)
There were no plans or leads as to which team the Sugar Land group might partner with. I contacted the Astros front office for comment, but they haven’t gotten back to me yet. I may be making something out of nothing here, but follow this timeline:
- Round Rock affiliation deal ends after 2010 season.
- Nolan Ryan is named minority owner of the Texas Rangers
- Ryan Sanders owns Round Rock (and Corpus Christi); Nolan is partner in company
- Astros are not in talks to renew agreement at this time, according to Kirk Bohls
- This story hits about Sugar Land possibly building a Triple-A caliber stadium
There’s a lot of speculation in ordering events like this, but I can definitely see a scenario develop where both the Rangers and Astros reach an agreement that they’d rather own their Triple-A affiliates outright. The Boston Red Sox set this trend in motion a couple years ago when they purchased the Salem Avalanche (then an Astros affiliate).
Depending on how binding the Rangers’ contract with Oklahoma City is, I could forsee a situation where Houston keeps Round Rock until 2012 and then buys and moves a team to Sugar Land or simply creates an expansion franchise. Note too that a Triple-A franchise will become available once the Portland Beavers are forced out of their stadium for Major League Soccer.
Back in 2003, the Ryan-Sanders group bought the Edmonton Trappers of the Pacific Coast League and brought them to Round Rock. At the time, the Trappers were the Expos top minor league affiliate, so the Astros simply traded them the New Orleans franchise.
I can see a situation where Texas, Houston and San Diego (Portland’s major league affiliate) all agree to trade teams, essentially. Texas would get Round Rock, Houston could get and move Portland while San Diego takes over Oklahoma City. That’s not ideal for the Padres, but they didn’t have a lot of possibilities in any case.
That’s not even touching on whether or not minor league baseball could survive in Houston. I know the Rangers like having a Double-A team in Frisco, but would Houstonians go see minor league ball? Would the Astros simply ‘promote’ Corpus to Triple-A and keep Sugar Land as the Double-A team?
Before I get too far down that rabbit hole, let’s pull it back to the beginning. This is simply a 90-day window to explore options. With no word from the Astros on their intentions and no further evidence that anything will happen with Round Rock, I’m going to cool off a bit. After all, jumping ahead of myself once on a negotiations window is enough for one offseason.
Instead, let’s jump to some draft talk. I have linked to his blog on occasion, but one big source of information during draft time is Baseball Beginnings, which is run by John Klima.
Just a little background on him from his website. Klima has been an award-winning baseball writer in the past, penned two books about baseball and appeared in the 2007 Best American Sports Writing Anthology. He has written for many different publications, but he's most focused on baseball scouting now. Through years as a writer then broadcaster, Klima has developed a network of scouts and coaches he can talk to and have helped him learn to scout on his own. His website is one of the best around for scouting reports and interviews with amateur players. I found a ton of information on his site when I was recapping the draft last summer.
What I really like about his scouting reports is that he mixes video in with the normal reports, so you can see what he's talking about. As you can tell, I'm a big fan of this kind of verification instead of just deferring to authority.
At any rate, Klima was out scouting some of the 2010 draft prospects at the Major League Scouting Bureau's Showcase at the Urban Youth Academy in Compton. He broke down the players into two groups: position players and pitchers. The guys I'm most interested in are right fielder Mike Lorenzen, catcher Jake Hernandez, right-hander Kyle Richter and left-hander Griffin Murphy.
All these guys are high schoolers, but Lorenzen is really intriguing. A power bat on the corners that can play good defense? The Astros haven't had a guy come up like that since Richard Hidalgo. I'm not sure whether the Astros will be in on any of these guys, but since they have somewhat of a California bent to some of their top selections (Castro, Mier), it's possible they will be in on someone from this group.
Keith Law's take on the weekend was also interesting, though only subscribers can read. He liked the same players I did, with a few additions like Vincent Velasquez, Christian Yelich and Tony Amezcua.
That last name may not be familiar to you, but it was the start of a discussion by Andy Seiler about Baseball America. Seiler posted a very detailed scouting report he had done on Amezcua in response to this note from BA claiming not much was known going in about Amezcua. He also brings up some of the same things I have in the past few months; namely, don’t just blindly trust BA because they’ve been doing it for years. Try to come up with your own ideas by reading as many different people as possible. It’s definitely an interesting thought. On another tangent, Project Prospect is trying to start a project to create a community of scouts. You readers out there would talk on forums, Twitter and the like as you watched the Jamison Taillon’s of the world play this spring. Then, you could all talk about what you saw to try and come to a consensus. I really like this project. If you are interested and have the time, I highly encourage you to check it out.
Finally, Jonathan Mayo weighs in on the weekend, but doesn’t add much more information than in the previous stories. Mayo’s gift is for networking and talking with scouts. His job and TV appearances don’t leave him much left over to do as much in-person scouting, but he still knows quite a bit about analyzing prospects. He’s easily one of the best mainstream prospect guys I’ve read.
Enough general draft talk, let’s get into some specific players. Like John Simms from my old hometown. Sure, he goes to the ‘rival’ high school now, but that doesn’t mean the Astros can’t draft him. Here’s some video on Simms, courtesy of Klima.
Here's a quick video from Seiler about a guy we've talked about quite a bit, Christian Colon. Impressions?
Another guy who bears watching is Tyrell Jenkins from Henderson. Klima does a lot of these videos, but I always perk up when I see players from Texas. Heck and Co. have shown a tendency to not focus on in-state talent. Instead, they rely on a great network of scouts in places like California or Georgia. I’m a sucker for local guys. I follow all the U of H and Rice players once they turn pro and give points to any Astros prospects from in-state. Still, I like the fact that ownership isn’t steering Heck to draft local products. Instead, they can take the top player on their board. So far, that’s worked out pretty well.
Here’s another quick note from Klima, at the bottom of a notebook-style column on the Arizona Fall League. Astros relief prospect Evan Englebrook is mentioned briefly, but certainly not glowingly. I’m not as high on Englebrook as some of you around here (clack, I seem to remember you mentioning him once). He was old for his level, both in Double-A and Triple-A in 2009 and has only pitched moderately well the past two seasons. Englebrook has battled a couple injuries and is a good depth guy to have at Round Rock, but I just don’t see big things from him. I always enjoy being surprised, but am not sure how much attention to pay to Englebrook.
We have linked to the Hardball Times prospect lists before, but here is a succinct listing of all 30 teams. I can’t remember if they were ranked the first time these came out or not, but the Astros at 21 isn’t bad, considering where they’re coming from. I still haven’t gotten my BA handbook (definitely should have ordered the electronic copy), but I’m sure the Astros will be lower than that. What it also means is that the Astros system may lack depth, but it no longer lacks upside at the top of the heap. Guys like Lyles, Seaton, Austin, Bushue and Mier are all young and playing well in (somewhat) limited time. If they continue to progress, we could really have something here.
The third part in a series of articles over at THT meant to quantify outfield defense mentioned a couple Astros farmhands. Both were because Lexington's Steve Brown had the best left field arm by the numbers last season. I've got to admit, I haven't been real high on Brown the past two seasons. He's been hurt quite a bit, but does show some good speed. The Astros also tend to bat him in the middle of the order, which I don't understand. His defense will keep him on the field for a couple more seasons, but he's down on my list of guys to watch.
Seiler also had a live chat recently, where he answered some of my questions (along with many others not from me). Of note for us was his thought that Rick Hague can stick at shortstop if needed, but that he could move off position if needed. With Mier holding down shortstop (presumably), would Hague slide to second? Or does a move to the hot corner make more sense?
The reason I asked him about Texas A&M is I'm going to make more of an effort to attend Aggie games this spring, in part so I can do some first-person scouting for all of you. I'll be there tonight as A&M takes on Seaton Hall, with Barrett Loux starting for the Aggies (he's the guy Seiler mentions). Right now, I'll contain my write-ups and thoughts on these games to that writing space. If all of you are interested enough, however, I'll switch them over here.
I’ll end with this note from Farmstros. There will be a special Spring Training correspondant over there for the Astros: Jonathan Fixler. The catcher who bounced all around the system last season will provide updates for Farmstros through the spring about catching all these talented young pitchers. I don’t know what I’m more excited for, the Quest for 3,000 syllables or the Fixler Files. Either way, we all win.
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I'd love an Astros farm team in Sugar Land
Don’t really care too much what class it is, I’d go see games regardless.
Hope it doesn’t wind up being some other organization’s minor league team, though that would just be strange and I don’t really see it happening.
I doubt that the Astros would want a AAA team in Sugarland, because at that level of play, it might compete with the major league team for attendance. Also, I’m not sure that area can support a AAA team unless it draws attendance away from the Astros. As best I can tell, farm teams in the same city or metropolitan area as the big league team are unusual situations, and tend to be A or AA (in the case of Frisco) level. Perhaps moving the Astros’ AA team to Sugarland and making the Hooks a AAA team is a viable option.
I don’t recall mentioning Englebrook, but I maybe I’ve forgotten.
It’s been too many comments in the past, I guess. I couldn’t find it when I looked back through the articles, but I do remember some regular commenter saying how much they liked Englebrook.
by David Coleman on Feb 19, 2010 9:43 AM CST up reply actions
Minor League in SugarLand would be great.
I wonder how the AAA team in Gwinnett (Atlanta suburb) will do as far as attendance with the Braves nearby.
Farmstros
Follow the Astros of the Future With Us
Some info of interest
Here’s some background information on Gwinnett Braves:
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/printedition/2008/06/29/bravesminors.html
http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/01/page/2/
And here’s 2009 attendance for the minors:
http://sbvteam.com.ismmedia.com/ISM2//Rankings/BBiz-2009%20Mega%20Rankings%20-%20FINAL.pdf
I’m aware of nothing that would constrain the Rangers to pursue setting up shop in Round Rock, though it’s certainly an option. However, Frisco is by far the best draw in AA, so one wonders if they would contemplate making Frisco their AAA at some point.
Certainly would make it that much more convenient when you’ve got those last-minute injuries that need to be dealt with.
The other interesting item I’ve found is that the Padres’ AA team happens to be contracted with them through 2010… that would be, of course, in San Antonio. Not sure how that would figure into any of this, but it’s at least interesting to see three MLB teams possibly preparing to play some musical chairs.
In the first linked article, a Braves’ official says that it might be difficult for major league teams to change to ownership of minor league teams at this point in time (as opposed to the 1960’s when the Braves went that route), because the valuation multiples are so high on minor league teams. Thinking about that, I’m not sure if the Astros would be in a position to buy the Hooks, for instance, which is one of the highest attendance AA teams in baseball or for the Rangers to buy the Express, which is one of the highest attendance AAA teams in baseball. The Ryan-Sanders Group which owns both the Hooks and Express would require full value for their shareholders. (And in the case of the Rangers, such a purchase might raise a sensitive self-dealing type issue, since the Rangers’ President would be profitting from the purchase.)
Assume for the moment that Round Rock DOES Affiliate with Texas...
Would you rather…
- Negotiate to pick-up the Rangers’ current affiliate, OK City?
- Jump through hoops necessary to bump Corpus to AAA?
- Negotiate a new relationship with San Antonio, and jump through hoops necessary to bump them to AAA?
- Purchase Portland outright, find a temporary city for them (El Paso?), and move them to Sugar Land in 2012?
- Something else?
being that i'm most likely going to be living in SA for the near future
I would be overjoyed if the Missions became property of the Astros
The Crawfish Boxes, Astros blogging at its finest.
by Evan Hochschild on Feb 19, 2010 10:11 PM CST up reply actions
San Antonio would make a lot of sense. If you’re the Astros, and you want to counter the Rangers’ presence in central Texas, SA would be a good location. Plus, in terms of size, San Antonio is big enough to support a major league team; so the potential for an Astros’ affiliate there ought to be large too.
Way-out-there-thought and one not-so-much
First, the not-so-much…
The American Association, with teams located in places like Ft. Worth, Grand Prarie, Shreveport, and El Paso would seem to make the most sense for this proposed Sugar Land franchise. A second alternative would be the smaller United League that operates exclusively in Texas.
Now, the way-out-there… and this will take awhile so I’ll just tell you where this is headed… there ought to be a High-A league in the middle of the country…
Here goes…
When you look at attendance figures of High-A leagues, the best average is the Carolina League (3108), followed by California (2478), and then the Florida State League (1476).
When you look at attendance figures of independent leagues—conventionally considered to be something between A and AA in terms of talent—the best average among those toward the middle of the nation is the Northern (4429), followed by the American Association (3154).
That logically gets a person to thinking…
For teams like Houston, located toward the middle of the country, why are we fielding High-A teams on either coast… assuming that there are other middling teams with similar situations?
To wit… Houston, Texas, and Colorado are fielding teams in the lower-half of attendance in the wilting California League. Kansas City and the White Sox have teams in Carolina. And, understanding that the incentive for fielding teams in the Florida State League is to take advantage of already-in-use spring training facilities, why would the Cubs and the Brewers feel necessarily compelled to base their High-A teams there?
Minnesota, Detroit and St. Louis, on the other hand, with teams in Ft. Myers, Lakeland, and Palm Beach in the FSL respectively, have a clear rationale for positioning their High-A team where it is, as a function of their spring training base also being there. Yet if one looks at the geography of the rest of their Single A-and-higher affiliate networks, Detroit (West Michigan, Erie PA, and Toledo) and St. Louis (Quad Cities, Springfield MO, and Memphis) would appear to have good reason to reassess their situations if a feasible alternative were available.
What about the rest of those teams’ affiliate networks?
For those MLB teams, their AA franchises currently are located in the Texas League (Colorado, Houston, Texas, Kansas City) or the Southern League (White Sox in Birmingham, Cubs near Knoxville TN, and Brewers in Huntsville AL), and their AAA franchises are all in the PCL except for the White Sox (in Charlotte). At the Low-A level, four of the franchises have teams in the Midwest League, and Houston, of course, is based in Lexington, KY, which is actually closer to many Midwest League teams. The Rockies (Asheville, NC) and the White Sox (Kannapolis, NC) are in the Sally League.
Conceivably, then, there is merit in attempting to forge a new High-A league for some number of these franchises except, at first glance anyhow, for Minnesota, and for the White Sox., both of whom have affiliate networks that have some geographical integrity that the others do not. Minnesota has AA and AAA affiliates in the Northeast, and the White Sox’ network clearly is well-entrenched in the Southeast (Kannapolis, NC; Winston-Salem, NC; Birmingham, AL; and, Charlotte, NC).
On second glance, however, Minnesota’s Low-A team is currently in Beloit, WI, and intriguingly just down the street in St. Paul, there is an independent league team drawing well over 5000 per game. That’s an attractive location and an attractive number, and the mind boggles at how well they could do if the St. Paul Saints were actually affiliated with the Twins.
And, on second glance where the White Sox are concerned, the franchises that the White Sox have are not especially strong, and that may be an understatement. Kannapolis’ (Low-A) attendance ranks 25th of 30 Low-A teams. Winston-Salem in High-A ranks 27th of 30, and dead-last of those who don’t have spring training bases in Florida. Charlotte (AAA) ranks 28th of 30. Only Birmingham (AA) places at a respectable 14th of 30. The implication being, the White Sox—with a talent pool most recently rated 16th by Baseball America—perhaps should be open to considering an overhaul of their affiliate network.
Especially given the deteriorating conditions in the California League, and since these independent league teams are finding it feasible without any MLB support to field viable leagues… why shouldn’t those teams pursue forming a High-A league in the nation’s mid-section?
Drawing this to a conclusion, here’s what I would propose:
Clearly there are several teams that would almost have to have strong interest in placing a High-A franchise in a league positioned in the geographical center of the country. I would consider these six to have the strongest: Milwaukee, Chicago Cubs, Kansas City, Colorado, Texas and Houston. And a six-team High-A league could reasonably be formed from among some of the top cities in the Northern and/or American Association cities:
Milwaukee = St. Paul (Amer Assn) or Rockford, IL (Northern)… instead of Brevard County, FL (Low-A = Appleton, WI, AA Huntsville, AAA Nashville)
Chicago NL = Schaumburg or Joliet, IL or Gary IN (all Northern)… instead of Daytona Beach (Low-A Peoria, AA Knoxville, AAA Des Moines)
Kansas City = Lincoln NE, Wichita KS (both Amer Assn) or Kansas City KS (Northern)… instead of Wilmington, DE
(Low-A Burlington Iowa, AA NW Arkansas, AAA Omaha)
Colorado = Lincoln NE or Wichita KS (both Amer Assn)… instead of Modesto, CA (Low-A Asheville, AA Tulsa, AAA Colorado Springs)
Texas = Ft. Worth or Grand Prarie (both Amer Assn)… instead of Bakersfield, CA
(Low-A Hickory NC, AA Frisco TX, AAA OK City or Round Rock?)
Houston = Ft. Worth, Grand Prarie, El Paso (All Amer Assn) or Sugar Land(?)… instead of Lancaster, CA
(Low-A Lexington, AA Corpus Christi, AAA Round Rock, OK City or San Antonio?)
Want an 8-team league?
St. Louis might be convinced to take Wichita, KS and Detroit might be convinced to take Gary, IL instead of their current FSL locations.
Want a 10-team league?
Gets a little tougher, but Minnesota would seem to be well-served to strongly consider St. Paul instead of their current FSL.
The White Sox would seem to be well-served to consider an overhaul of their lower-level locations anyhow, and potentially could jump on Schaumberg, Joliet, or Rockford.
And a third MLB team may even take an interest in this hypothetical new league from their remote northwestern location: Seattle. Currently the Mariners’ High-A franchise is High Desert, which with Bakersfield, have been the “problem children” of an otherwise-already-downcast California League. A move of their High-A franchise either toward West Tennessee (AA) or Clinton Iowa (Low-A) likely would be a welcome development.
Assume this happens at the 6, 8 or 10 team levels… what would become of the Carolina, California, and Florida State Leagues?
If six teams, Carolina is reduced to 7 franchises, California is reduced to 7 franchises, and the FSL is reduced to 10. Obviously, something would need to happen to get two leagues to an even number. If this eight-team scenario occurred, the same situation remains since only the FSL would be reduced and reduced by an even number. If ten teams, either the situation remains the same with two FSL franchises leaving, or the FSL ends up with an odd number and Cali evens out (i.e., if High Desert were abandoned by Seattle). So, indeed, were this to occur, it’s very likely that Cali and Carolina would have to make some significant adjustment.
So there you have it… a what-if summary of a geographically-center High-A league and why it makes some serious sense, at least for six teams and maybe more.
Oh, one more thing...
Said league… I’ll call it the Heartland League for the sake of having a moniker to stick on it… regardless of which 6, 8, or 10 team configuration you want to look at, averaged something just a hundred or two south of 4000 in 2009; and that, without the benefit of any major league affiliations. Compare that to the most popular current High-A league, Carolina, which averaged about a hundred more than 3000.

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