When they say offense do the Astros really mean defense?
by Timothy De Block on Dec 27, 2010 6:00 AM CST
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PrintWhile looking through highlights of Clint Barmes and Bill Hall I wondered if we were focusing on the wrong aspect of their game in our analysis. Sure Ed Wade is going to say it's for offense but that's really just a PR move. They could sign any right handed hitter and I'm sure the words Crawford and Boxes would be sprinkled through out the press conference.
If the Astros were truly interested in adding punch to the lineup then why (if you believe the reports) was their first choice for second base Orlando Hudson, who slugged .372 last season. Hall slugged .456, had more home runs, runs batted in, and for those more interested in advanced statistics his wOBA was 22 points higher than Hudson's. On top of that Hall is also two years younger.
Defense was the focus not the offense.
While Hall is very athletic and has shown to be very valuable defensively at multiple positions, Hudson is one of the top, if not the top, defensive second baseman in the big leagues. His 17 defensive runs saved (DRS) lead the majors last season.
The recent acquisition of Clint Barmes just furthers the argument. I'm sorry a player with a career 75 OPS+ is not going to improve the offense by leaps and bounds. No matter how many short porch references are dropped in his press conference. What he does provide is an upgrade over Tommy Manzella both offensively, and maybe more importantly defensively.
Due to the presence of Troy Tulowitzki time at short for Barmes was limited. He did however manage to play 49 games there with 39 of those being starts. He posted well above average numbers in both UZR and DRS. His 25 out of zone plays was only four behind Manzella who had 29, in more games. Meaning Barmes has shown a bit more range and is considered to be above average while Manzella is average to below average defensively. However with only 82 games 75 of them starts it's a small sample size defensively for Manzella and he could improve further, but it appears the Astros are willing to move on and go with the more proven Barmes.
What's this mean?
Well for those of you hoping for a more competitive team next year, it appears the Astros are attempting to do just that. Albeit through defense not offense. If they improve the offense it's more of a bonus rather than the goal.
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their first choice for second base Orlando Hudson, who slugged .372 last season.
I’m guessing Eddy offered him a one-year contract, whereas the Padres gave him 2-years $11.5m.
Or it could of just been less money, considering hall was signed for $3m with a $4m mutual option. Wade could of gone $8-10m and just got outbid by the Padres.
by Timothy De Block on Dec 27, 2010 7:18 AM CST up reply actions
I think you are right to some extent. However, my guess is that the Astros wanted some combination of improved defense plus improved offense in the middle infield. I agree with you that Barmes is not a good bet on the offensive side (I would go further and say that he may not be an improvement over what Manzella can offer on defense—given their differences in age, I expect Manzella’s defense to be upward bound and Barmes’ to be in decline). However, I don’t think the Astros front office sees it that way. They probably look at Barmes’ offense in the 2008 and 2009 seasons as the norm, which is an optimistic view, to be sure.
The Astros surely are aware of Manzella’s defensive potential, but they may see Barmes’ defense as more certain. And again the Astros may be seeing Hudson’s offense through an optimistic lens, with 2007 – 2009 as the norm, when he exhibited some power. So, I don’t think they are untruthful when the Astros say that they were attempting to improve the power output from the middle infield. But, also, they probably were looking to improve the middle infield offense too. The Astros continue to show a preference on the pitching side for “pitch to contact” and groundball pitchers. It’s pretty obvious that the middle infield defense needs to improve if they follow that pattern.
In the time machine that is Brewers Classics that just aired, he hit a 3 run HR off of a Doug Davis curveball and made 2 nice catches in centerfield. In other news, I don’t miss Johnny Estrada, Braun picked a couple nice grounders at 3rd and only airmailed one, and Kevin Mench hit another triple.
Hall made a three or four spectacular catches against the Astros as a Brewers center fielder. Those catches were so memorable that Jim Deshais would mention them in subsequent games/years when Hall came to bat. They were probably in the 2006 or 2007 time frame. I spent some time trying to find an mlb.com archives for those catches. But, alas, I couldn’t find any such archives. I wonder if the catches you referred, above, were against the Astros?
2 things...
1) we’ve been telling/hearing since Manzella was drafted pretty much that his offense is not spectacular its his jaw dropping defense that we have to look forward to. Now “its average to below average?”
2)Does Barmes remind anyone else of a certain acquisition we’ve made in the recent past? One such acquisition we made because we had an unproven player at a certain corner infield corner (can’t get too specific and ruin the surprise.) Wouldn’t it be great if lightening could strike twice? Especially since Manzella apparently improves in his second year like clock work. Not that im expecting, just saying…
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 27, 2010 3:15 PM CST via mobile reply actions
From my personal observations “average to below average” is too harsh for Tommy. It is easily average to above average in my view minus his shaky start of the season. I remember reading the Philly threads for that 4 game sweep and posters were getting pissed that Tommy was everywhere during the long extra inning game. Here’s the exact plays:
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11332283
http://mlb.mlb.com/video/play.jsp?content_id=11336397
Is it jaw dropping? Probably not. Is it an above average defense at a crucial time? No doubt.
"Welcome to the show where everything is made up and the points don't matter. That's right, the points are just like the Texans' defense" - Bring Whose Line back!
by RocketsAstros on Dec 27, 2010 4:11 PM CST up reply actions
I think you have to realize that this was Manzella’s rookie season. Many rookie shortstops look like bad fielders in their first year. For instance, I was just reading an old article from Stephen Drew’s rookie season and there were complaints that he was the 3d or 4th worst defensive shortstop, according to UZR. Now he is one of the better defensive shortstops.
Manzella’s problem in 2010 was that he made too many errors. Many of the errors were on routine plays in critical situations where he may have felt the pressure early in the season. UZR says Manzella’s range was positive, but errors were the negative factor. I think that Manzella will be an above average defensive shortstop if his offense ever perks up enough to keep him in the major leagues.
Completely agree. Manzella seemed to settle down and play better with the glove after the first month or two. He definitely has above average range and a strong arm.
I think the Astros have definitely made a conscious decision to emphasize defense, especially up the middle. Hall should be a definite upgrade over Keppinger defensively.
team offense
there are some intangibles. wallace, castro…. lee will hit better all year in a good lineup…he is a good ball hitter…needs a good lineup around him… all players do..pence is same…both hit better when we got rid of matsui…and feliz… we are going to have a good lineup..both defensively and offensively…. barmes and hall…better than angel and kepp… castro and wallace both showed they can hit major league pitching…we will see if they do in 2011…if not…lee will be at lb and q will catch more often… pitching is good…good starting rotation…a number of back end options…bull pen parts are coming together… kicker…is the astros have $$$$$$ mcclain has $$…maybe during the season a move will be made…magnus
if, BIG IF...
the Astros are in contention through the first part of the year I can see Mclane opening up the checkbook, but, you can’t buy players during the season you must trade for them. Something we have learned not to do. And the Stros would have to make Dray a fan again and that’s gonna be hard to do with all the disappointment we’ve all been put through. Ps unlikely overall because A) we are a second half team and B) we have a really hard start to the season.
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 28, 2010 7:55 PM CST via mobile reply actions
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