What was THE moment you knew the Astros were headed towards disaster?

For me it was when Andy Pettitte decided to bail for the Yankess. I had really hoped the Astros would sign him, but I think he saw the writing on the wall and wanted to go back to a winning club. Once he left you knew Clemens wasn’t coming back.

Probably the worst of that though was that the Astros replaced them with soon to be 40 Woody Williams. If the Astros weren’t going make the playoffs in 2006 with Pettitte and Clemens they weren’t going to make in 2007 with Carlos Lee and Woody Williams.

Mine is similar to Stephen’s. November/December 2008. Wade withdraws a contract offer to Randy Wolf because Drayton reduced his payroll. Then he non-tenders Wigginton for payroll reason. That is followed by the replacement signing of Aaron Boone. The idea that the 3d base starters would be a platoon of Boone and Blum seemed utterly ridiculous. At the time, I wondered if Wade, chafing at the payroll reduction decision, had decided to play a joke on McLane.

the Jennings trade (which along with the Woody Williams pickup, and to a degree, Carlos Lee’s big contract – maybe the entire botched offseason), which seemed like one desperate push to move a mediocre team back into the playoffs in a mediocre division; the baffling Wigginton (producing a largely abysmal third base situation for the past two years) and Wolf (he was either coming back at a reasonable price, or getting at least a supp draft pick) non-moves – which happened when they were still supposedly capable of contending, after a 86-win season ruined only by that hurricane; and the Tejada deal, which really angered me because even though it didn’t turn out all too badly (Patton flamed out – maybe Wade knew something, Albers and Sarfate are mediocre, Costanzo flamed out, Scott has been decent but probably superfluous), it signalled a pretty baffling organizational philosophy which hopefully has stopped, of trying to build a temporary, winning team from a very mediocre base, and limited resources.

but rather the culmination of events since the end of 2005.

Some that come to mind…

1) The exit of Jerry Hunsicker in 2004 who was, essentially, responsible for much of the great Astros teams over the 90s and 2000s.

1) Jason Lane and Morgan Ensberg (two big contributors of the 2005 team) going from being useful to pretty much useless over a two year period. When both players were traded in late 2007 it was shocking how far both players had degraded, talent-wise.

2) Bad signings and trades during the short-lived Tim Purpura-era. Just a few that come to mind: Woody Williams, Jason Jennings, Carlos Lee, and Aubrey Huff (for Ben Zobrist).

3) The Astros not signing any top picks in the 2007 draft.

4) Other high-valued draft picks not able to contribute to the big club between 2005 to present due to general ineffectivness (Chris Burke, J.R. Towles) or injuries (Brian Bogusevic, Felipe Paulino, Max Sapp).

5) The arrival of Ed Wade and the flurry of post-season moves in 2007. From sending half the farm to Baltimore (the day before the Mitchell report!) for Miguel Tejada (a guy in the Mitchell report!), to the Kaz Matsui signing, to the Brad Lidge trade—among others.

5) The rediculously bad start of the 2009 season and the whole Shawn Chacon debacle.

Overcoming an 8 1/2 game deficit late in the season only to lose to the Braves on the final day thus missing the playoffs. I was heartbroken and very deep down inside I felt that was the last stand for this great team. The subsequent attrocious offseason just cemented that feeling.

Mediocrity? Yes.



Disaster, though, is what happens when .500 ball is something you look forward to… we’re not there… at least, not yet.



But that is my fear that we will inadvertently replicate Richard Justice’s pollyanna column from today, as-if we should take joy in seeing young enthusiastic players rather than winning baseball.



The moment I knew we were destined for mediocrity, though?



In all honesty, not until the 2009/10 off-season, when it first became evident that the organization was content to start, not one, but two young players (Manzella and Towles) at two positions, SS and C, who would have started for virtually no other team in either league given their resume’s. When a team is that desperate for a winning lottery ticket, you know mediocrity is the best you can hope for.

The last day of the 2006 season sticks out to me as well RocketsAstros. It was the last comeback and if memory serves Pettite pitched the second to last game and then we lost the last one. It was definitely the last time we were a championship contender.

Then of course switching from Andy Pettite to Woody Williams was a big decline. And seeing Biggio hit his 3,000 hit seemed like the end of the Killer Bee’s. The 2008 struck me as an over-achiever but, they were a winner.

Really we have been rebuliding since 2006. My guess is we are four to five years away from seriously competing for a play spot.

The Pettitte thing is a hot button with me.



There is no debate that Purpura was not an effective GM. And who doesn’t like Andy Pettitte? The guy is a winner.



However, Pettitte’s refusal to make up his mind and allow Tim and Tal to go to the Winter Meetings knowing exactly what ought to be on their pitching shopping list was/is a black mark on Pettitte and no one else.



Good to see he’s an equal-opportunity-offender, and that even the Yankees are getting the treatment. If Cashman does acquire someone, it will be interesting to see if Pettitte is as offended as he evidently was that Purpura dealt for Jennings.

for a long while now…
But after the whole Berkman incident, i don’t feel that anything good will happen in the near future (year or so)

Looks like the Lindstrom trade market is rumored to be very active.

But around 2006 the farm system started to crater. Someone in the front office decided not to invest in signing and developing young players and the decline has been steady ever since.

It was two things at once. First, having Roger Clemens pitch the first game of the World Series. I was amazed they didn’t have Oswalt start that. The second, was announcing that Jeff Bagwell would be the DH. I loved Bagwell. He was great. But his career was obviously over and they had no business at all putting him in to play. Those were “cosmetic” decisions and I knew it then we were headed for disaster.

That one killed me. I posted a drunken rant on myspace when it happened. My first reaction was these guys don’t get it.

I think you have to start with Gerry Hunsicker bailing. That was a clear red flag that something bad was going on in the Astros’ front office. Obviously, we can see there was a power struggle between Gerry, McLane, and Tal Smith.

Losing Pettitte was the beginning of the end for me. I was shocked we couldn’t find a way to re-sign him, and I was personally disappointed since I’m from his home town (Deer Park). The dominoes fell from there. Purpura tried to replace him with Jason Jennings, and the Woody Williams and Preston Wilson signings were also busts.

Another problems is that they got use to living dangerously. 04 and 05 were not fluke teams but, the had so many old parts I think the front office came to believe that a 36-10 finish was always just right around the corner and so players like Lee or Jennings were added because it plausibly lead the team to repeat.