Report: Cliff Lee returns to the Phils......Best rotation of all time?
by jaz_e24 on Dec 14, 2010 1:35 AM CST
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PrintHoly sweet mother of pearl. What turn of events.
Pitcher Cliff Lee reached an agreement on a deal to rejoin the Philadelphia Phillies late Monday night, a Texas Rangers team source told ESPNDallas.com's Richard Durrett.
Lee's deal with Philadelphia is for five years and $120 million with a vesting option for a sixth, a source said.
Here is the rest of the story via ESPN.com. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5917145
While I would have like to see Cliff Lee go to the Rangers for a refreshing change of pace in the free agency market. I certainly don't blame him for returning to the Phillies.
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The idea of Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Roy Oswalt, Cole Hamels, and Joe Blanton seems almost like a fairytale. Suddenly, the Phillies have put together one of the best rotations, possibly of all time. Good luck in the NL East.
Now granted my "Of All Time" only dates back to 1993 here. Thats the first season I can really remember watching baseball and knowing about the players and game.
So the best rotation "Of All Time" for me is the 1993 Braves. That rotation was so good they went with a 4 man squad. Using the 5th starter only around 10 times times that season.
Greg Maddux
Tommy Glavine
Steve Avery
John Smoltz
Who do you all think is the best rotation "of all time"? Is it the 2011 Philadelphia Phillies? I am interested to hear your opinions.
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The Phillies should be competitive with that title. The Braves rotation of the early 90’s generally is credited as the best. However, I think the 2005 Astros rotation is right in the mix, and may be better than the Phillies’ rotation. Oswalt, Pettitte, and Clemens all put up Cy Young worthy performances.
2005 Astros ERA+
Clemens 226
Pettitte 177
Oswalt 146
Backe 89
2010 ERA+
Oswalt 143
Lee 130
Halliday 165
Hamel 133
The Phillies are better than the 2005 Astros in terms of going 4 deep. But the average ERA+ for the 2005 Astros 1 thru 4 starters is higher (159.5 vs. 142.5). None of the Phillies’ starters equal Clemens or Pettitte in ERA+.
Any mention of Clemens' 2005 season
And I’ll get in my obligatory mention of the theft of his Cy Young by the BBWAA.
They’re definitely up there with those Braves teams. Those late 60’s Orioles teams with Palmer, Cuellar and Co are right there. The Drysdale/Koufax Dodgers teams probably rank pretty high from those two guys alone, too.
What’s interesting is that Oswalt may be the fourth starter on that squad…
I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson
I’m pretty sure Manuel will want to split up the lefties.
by Timothy De Block on Dec 14, 2010 8:30 AM CST up reply actions
True, I meant in terms of performance, though. With their past inconsistency, will he and Hamels put up the same numbers again next year? If I had to pick one, I’d probably say Hamels has the better year. I also wonder if Oswalt’s experience being in an All-Star rotation with Clemens and Pettitte will make any difference.
I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson
by David Coleman on Dec 14, 2010 8:38 AM CST up reply actions
I've read on MLBTR...
That the Phillies would be looking to deal Blanton if they signed Lee, so I wouldn’t be so sure that’s going to be the starting rotation for 2011.
I think you have a great argument for best of all time now, but if you’re going to bring up the greatest pitching staffs ever, you can’t not mention the Braves.
I still think the Braves win because 3 of those 4 pitchers will end up in the HOF and they absolutely dominated the NL East/West for about 15 years, winning an absurd 14(!) division titles and going to the World Series 5 times in the 1990s.
Oh, and that was all pretty much during the height of the steroids era too.
back up a bit…turns out only that they are in discussion. it may depend on whether the Red Sox can trade Dice-K.
If Boston falls through, I don’t know of another soft landing spot for Blanton. Maybe Detroit?
I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson
by David Coleman on Dec 14, 2010 10:03 AM CST up reply actions
not so fast my friend
same thing could of been said last year ;)
by Timothy De Block on Dec 14, 2010 10:55 AM CST up reply actions
Best rotation of all time?
When I think of “Best,” I usually equate that with regular season victories, post-season victories, and ultimately World Series victories, not just ERA, SOs and the like.
This 2011 pitching cast has some meat on the bone, that is for certain. Time will tell.
"This s.o.b. is throwing a two-hit shutout. He's shaking me off. You believe that s***? Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well." - Crash Davis
That should read 2011 "Phillies" pitching cast
….but you understand.
"This s.o.b. is throwing a two-hit shutout. He's shaking me off. You believe that s***? Charlie, here comes the deuce. And when you speak of me, speak well." - Crash Davis
Putting O in the number 3-4 spot im not so sure he will lose a game
Used to being the ace he could hardly pull a win from the aces like lincicum and halliday now he’s going against significantly less star power. He breaks 15 wins easy this year if he’s healthy maybe 20. It just comes down to if the lineup has another slump
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 14, 2010 1:18 PM CST via mobile reply actions
I'd like to see Roy O rack up another 20 win season
he deserves it for all the poor run support he’s head 2006-2010
A decent offense and he could have easily had 20 win seasons in 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2010.
Hopefully he can get his W% back up past .666 too.
Another thing we can maybe smile on...
3 of the 4 are getting a little up there in age. How long can they go without injury. I know Lee and Hall like to throw complete games and Roy has had some nagging back issues the past few years. These guys aren’t unbeatable but an injury or two could really help the rest of us. It just pisses me off they’re all really nice guys. Phucking lucky Phillies. Its not fair…
by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 14, 2010 2:43 PM CST via mobile reply actions
Report: Mariners trade Felix Hernandez to Phillies for minor league prospects…
"I want my life back". "I'm sure you do Tony Hayward, but I like marshland & fish. You'll never be able to do anything it takes to "make this right". And don't even think about giving me marlins.
I'm still trying to find audio for the Michael Kay incident last week
involving the fake Jon Heyman twitter account that posted a ‘Greinke to the Phillies’ trade last week.
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