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Whither The Starting Pitchers?: Astros Offseason Talk

Houston Astros general manager Ed Wade had a pretty simple offseason to-do list after the season:

1) Get better at shortstop

2) Find another Brett Myers

3) Do something about left field

And that's pretty much it. Sure, he'd listen on help at second base if he needed to and will probably try and find a lefty reliever or two, but those were his three main priorities. For better or worse, the Clint Barmes trade knocked No. 1 off his list, so the next-most pressing need for the Astros is another starter to help fill out the rotation. Especially after trading Felipe Paulino to the Rockies, Houston needs a little more depth heading into spring training than Nelson Figueroa can provide by himself. So, let's take a look at who's left on the free agent market after the jump...

Star-divide

Thanks to MLB Trade Rumors, I was able to sort by all the current free agents this winter and see which ones had signed contracts already and which ones were still available. Makes my job much, much easier, so thanks MLBTR! I'm not going to list every player here, just the most interesting ones.

Brian Bannister, RHP - A statistical darling because he talks about stuff like BABiP and his line drive rate, Bannister hasn't been particularly good the past two seasons. Really, he hasn't been good since 2007, but his FIP has been lower than his ERA in each of the past three seasons. He doesn't really strike anyone out and his walk rate has spiked since he won 12 games in '07. I don't see the Astros making a push for him on anything other than a minor league deal. What gets it done: Minor league deal, spring training invite

Jeremy Bonderman, RHP -Of all the pitchers on this list, Bonderman is probably my favorite target right now. Before he started dealing with a scary injury (blood clot in his throwing shoulder), Bonderman was one of the youngest and workhorsiest pitchers in the American League. He topped 180 innings three times in his first four seasons, including 214 innings of work in 2006. He consistently struck out a good number of batters and had a fairly low walk rate around 2.60. He's not a ground ball pitcher, but his rate always hovered around 47 or 48 percent. That is, until this injury messed up his mechanics and velocity. In his first full season back, he had a GB rate of 44.7 in 171 innings with an ERA of 5.53 and an FIP of 4.90. His strikeout rate plummeted and his walk rate was back over three. However, he missed half of one season and almost all of another, so it's reasonable to expect things to bounce back for Bonderman. If it's really a mechanical thing, I trust Arnie to get it worked out. Of all the guys on this list, Bonderman is probably the closest to Brett Myers circa last offseason. What gets it done: 1 year, 5 million

Kevin Correia, RHP (Type B) -The main, glaring differences between Correia's 2009 season when he posted a WAR of 2.5 and a disastrous 2010 campaign when his WAR was 0.1 are walks and home runs. His BB/9 jumped one full walk, from 2.91 to 3.97. His HR/9 rate jumped from 0.77 to 1.24. Both of those are closer to his career averages than the 2009 numbers suggested, as Correia has a career BB/9 rate of 3.60. If there is a positive sign that he could turn things around, it's his strikeout rate rising for the second straight season. It's now just as high as it was with the Giants when he was a reliever. Correia turned down the Padres offer of arbitration to test the market a little, but it's still unclear how much he stands to earn. What gets it done: 2 years, 8 million

Justin Duchscherer, RHP - The Duke has been mentioned frequently around here as a possible target. He's one of three or four guys coming off injuries that are intriguing. The problem is, I'm not sold on him as a pitcher (seriously, just go look at his 2008 peripherals real quick. Go ahead, I'll wait). The Astros may not be either, but I think the injury concerns will scare them off more. They have not really shown an interest in bringing in pitchers with injury histories under Wade, with the exception of Brett Myers, so I don't think this gets done.

Jeff Francis, LHP - Another guy coming off an injury that is intriguing but possibly too high-risk for the Astros. He may not have struck out over 6 per 9 innings last season, but Francis had a miniscule walk rate and could take off once he's fully recovered from the torn labrum that erased his 2009 season. What gets it done: 1 year, 6 million

Aaron Harang, RHP - How did Aaron Harang go from a 230-inning workhorse who had legitimate sub-4 ERAs to a guy who is barely getting a sniff on the free agent market? Strikeouts, strikeouts, strikeouts. In his two big years with the Reds, Harang struck out over 8 batters per 9 innings, In his two relatively mediocre seasons following those, that dropped to over 7 K/9. In 2010, that dropped to 6.61 K/9. His walk rate also spiked up over 3, which shouldn't be too troublesome, since his career rate is around 2.5. Most likely, the walks were a product of his injuries that limited him to just 111 2/3 innings last season. Does he have anything left? Harang will be 33 in May, so he may just be declining quickly. If the money is right, though, he might be worth a flyer. What gets it done: 1 year, 8 million

Cliff Lee, LHP (Type A) - Hah! What gets it done: Eleventy-billion dollars over the next hundred years

Kevin Millwood, RHP (Type B) - At this point in his career, there's not much mystery left with Millwood. He's had negative run values on all of his pitches for the past four seasons. He's basically had the same peripherals for the past three. He doesn't strike out a ton, but he is over 6 most years. That means he can stay effective, but not overpowering. His walk rate is high, but not high enough to hurt him badly. He pitches a lot of innings, but they're not exactly high-quality innings. Ahh, but here's the kicker. Guess where Millwood played back in 2003 and 2004? Guess who happened to be the GM of that team at the time? Yeah, expect to see Kevin in an Astros uniform come April. What gets it done: 1 year, 6 million

Carl Pavano, RHP (Type A)  - Realistically, there is no way the Astros would sign someone line Pavano to the three year, 36 million dollar deal he's looking for AND give up a draft pick. That would fly in the face of everything we have heard this front office say since Tejada left and they traded Oswalt and Berkman. What gets it done: 3 years, 36 million

Brad Penny, RHP - The good? Penny had his lowest peripheral numbers since 2007 with the Dodgers, posting an ERA of 3.23 and an FIP of 3.40 in 2010 with the Cardinals. The bad? He only threw 55 2/3 innings in nine starts before an injury ended his season. The injury was supposed to be a strained lat, but obviously it was more serious than that, as Penny didn't pitch for a Cardinals team that could have used him. At this point, a minor league deal seems likely, until he can prove he's really healthy. What gets it done: Minor league deal, spring training invite

Ian Snell, RHP - When, exactly, was Ian Snell supposed to have been good? The 30-year old had a 14-win season in 2006 and a 3.76 ERA in 2007, but his peripherals still said he was pretty average. Now, he's coming off a season when he was designated for assignment in June after appearing in 12 games with the Mariners and didn't play in the majors after that. Yes, he's been mentioned a lot around here as a guy who Arnsberg can turn around, but I'd much rather see about six guys on this list before I want Snell. What gets it done: Minor league deal, spring training invite

Brandon Webb, RHP - The last of the injured pitchers who may or may not be interesting to the Astros. Webb certainly has the best chance of getting fans excited, what with his Cy Young award and two second-place Cy finishes. But, he has only thrown four innings in the past two seasons and will be 32 in May. On top of that, his old team, the one who knows him and his medicals the best, doesn't appear interested in keeping him around. Webb will need to show he's not only healthy, but that his velocity is all the way back. I bet there is moderate interest here, and he'll probably get more than a minor league contract, but not much more. Expect any deal of his to be heavily incentive-laden. What gets it done: 1 year, 2 million with incentives up to 8 million if healthy

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My thoughts…

My favorite candidates would be (in order): Harang (only if he can be signed for $3 million plus incentives), who I think has a chance at becoming a Myers; Corriea (preferrably on a 1 year contract); and Jeff Francis (only at $3 or $4 million, plus incentives). And, frankly, I think that most of the injury projects have an expected (probable) performance value no greater than Figueroa. And he will be much cheaper.

I understand the appeal of Bonderman, but I think his salary outdistances the risk. Sure, there is some low salary which makes him worth a risk, but I don’t think he will be available for the $1 – $2 million range. I think that Bonderman is an example of a pitcher whose arm was shredded by bringing him to the major leagues at too young an age (20 years old). His career trajectory follows the predictions of critics of that decision at a time. He went down with arm injuries after pitching around 900 innings through age 25. In terms of mileage, Bonderman’s arm should be viewed more like a pitcher in his 30’s. Bonderman probably will have to re-make himself as a different type of pitcher, and that’s tough.

Webb’s agent, by the way, says that teams must offer $10 Million/year to get a conversation started. The $10 Million is based on the contract Sheets signed with Oakland last year.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 10:35 AM CST reply actions  

I think Harang has a very good chance to be like Myers. His fastball isn’t overpowering, but he didn’t lose velocity on it over the past few years. His curve was very good in 2009 and his slider was a weapon for him when he was striking out guys left and right. That’s a profile I could see Arnie doing wonders with, but the money definitely has to be right.

I do see your point with Bonderman. Not taking into account his high inning total at such a young age, blood clots are not the typical kind of injury pitchers suffer, which makes his recovery very problematic. If he just needs to get his mechanics cleaned up, that’s fixable. If it’s learning how to be a different kind of pitcher, I can see Arnie helping there. If his arm is just shot…

Ultimately, I don’t think the Astros take a chance with any of the injury risks. The best (most unfortunate) bet is that Millwood will be signed. Harang would probably be a good option, as would Correia on a one-year, one-option sort of deal.

I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson

by David Coleman on Dec 1, 2010 10:53 AM CST up reply actions  

Reds fan here

Harang missed serious time in 2008 with an arm injury. He started a Friday night game in San Diego and threw a normal amount of pitches. On Sunday the game went 18 innings and Harang threw 60 pitches in relief, and then took a start on normal rest.

In 2009 he missed the final 6 weeks with an appendectomy.

He missed 2 months in 2010 with a back injury, but I feel like if he would have been pitching well he would have returned earlier. He didn’t return to the rotation until there was an opening.

I think he needs to develop a change up if he still wants to pitch. He throws a fastball or slider 90% of the time, and his slider doesn’t have the break it use to. Hitters lay off the slider and hit his average fastball.

"It is a damn poor mind indeed which can't think of at least two ways to spell any word."

-President Andrew Jackson

by justin007000 on Dec 2, 2010 7:20 PM CST up reply actions  

agents

Another team signed a bad contract seems like bad logic. You’d think a GM would go “woah, that Sheets contract really turned out poorly,” maybe with more colorful language.

by ol Pete on Dec 1, 2010 3:22 PM CST up reply actions  

Nelson Figueroa

David, youi write that “Houston needs a little more depth heading into spring training than Nelson Figueroa can provide by himself.” Oh yes he can. He can give you 200+ innings with an ERA of under 4, and go deep into almost every game he starts. Look at his stats as a starting pitcher since August 2009. Forget his age. It means nothing. He may be 36 going on 37 next May, but he pitches and looks like he’s 10 years younger. Figgy has a rubber arm and proved he could pitch very effectively in the last game of the 2010 season with 6 shutout innings even on three days rest after going 6.2 shutout innings in his previous start; he won the Astros only 2 victories in the season’s last 8 games!. And he’ll cost us under $1 million.

by hdarvick on Dec 1, 2010 11:32 AM CST reply actions  

I’d be happy with Figueroa as the fifth start, don’t get me wrong. But he’s only one guy. I’d prefer a little more depth, even if that meant bumping Figueroa to the bullpen as the long relief guy/spot starter in case of injury. It’s highly unlikely that the Astros make it through the season with just five guys in the starting rotation and I think it’d be smart of them to plan for that.

I’m a simple man. I like pretty, dark-haired women and breakfast foods.
--Ron F'ing Swanson

by David Coleman on Dec 1, 2010 11:35 AM CST up reply actions  

Nice to see such a big Figgy fan. (I like him too.) But I think it is overly optimistic to count on him to provide 200 innings. Below 4 ERA? Maybe, but I would feel more comfortable projecting a 4.5 ERA for him—-and, for a No. 5 starter, that would be fine. Like David said, no teams gets away with only 5 starters, since some injuries are bound to occur in the rotation. And generally teams require depth in the form of 7 pitchers who can start in the rotation.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 11:50 AM CST up reply actions  

Figueroa pitched 93 innings which was his highest total since 2003. Asking him to go 200+ innings would be risky and would essentially be blowing up the insurance plan. If Figuerora is on the DL or ineffective who takes his spot in the rotation?

by Timothy De Block on Dec 1, 2010 12:30 PM CST up reply actions  

Also, my recollection is that Figueroa usually was a 5 inning starter for the Astros, though he did have better games at the end of the season.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 12:37 PM CST up reply actions  

I'm wondering how durable Figgy is

Although his last two starts of the season were arguably his best.

Jeff Francis I want no part of, Correia is an interesting one. The Giants obviously gave up on him, after having high hopes initially, and he had a good enough 2009 with the Padres. Harang’s career has been trending downwards, in about every statistic.

I think it breaks down to what Brad Arnsberg thinks he can fix in any of the pitchers mentioned.

You look at what has been doled out so far to free agent pitchers, and it isn’t that overwhelming. Garland got $5m for 2011, and $8m for 2012 (if he reaches 195 innings), Vasquez got $6-7m with incentives and that sort of thing.

by AstroB on Dec 1, 2010 12:02 PM CST reply actions  

Bonderman

is on the right side of 30 too (turned 28 in October). I don’t know enough about his stuff to really comment on what Arnsberg would have to fix, and while his numbers don’t reach out and grab you, I’d be willing to give him a shot.

by AstroB on Dec 1, 2010 12:39 PM CST reply actions  

… as I mentioned above, I think he should be viewed as equivalent to an over 30 pitcher, given the high mileage put on his arm when he was a too-young starter for the Tigers.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 1:31 PM CST up reply actions  

ah yes

hadn’t thought of that

Was just looking at the 2001 draft (Bonderman was drafted no. 19 by the A’s in the first round). Some notable names there. Gold star if you can name the Astros’ no. 1 pick in that round without looking, and the no.1 overall pick.

by AstroB on Dec 1, 2010 1:42 PM CST up reply actions  

just guessing….Chris Burke as Astros’ draftee. Mark Prior as No. 1 draft pick?

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 1:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Clack was correct on the first, Timmy right on the second (Prior was drafted no. 2)

by AstroB on Dec 2, 2010 12:35 PM CST up reply actions  

Bud Norris has drawn comparisons to him

So that should give you an idea. He’s always struggled a lot with injuries which has been his main problem.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Dec 1, 2010 2:22 PM CST up reply actions  

If we wanted to sabotage our rotation more

Ken Rosenthal says the Nationals are open to trading Ian Desmond for a young pitcher with comparable service time. Would you consider sending over Bud Norris if the Nationals would take the deal?

Of course, the problem then becomes that we’re looking for two additional starting pitchers, not just the one.

http://www.crawfishboxes.com

by OremLK on Dec 1, 2010 2:22 PM CST reply actions  

just furthers the idea Wade should of waited.

by Timothy De Block on Dec 1, 2010 2:55 PM CST up reply actions  

Desmond’s bat may be OK, but I’m not sure about his glove. As I’m sure you know, Desmond had a ton of errors. I know errors aren’t the best defensive stat, but 34 errors in a year is a lot of errors is at the major league level. And both UZR and DRS put him in the -8 to -9 runs area. So, the question is whether or how much he can improve. Scouting reports indicate that Desmond is athletic and has good range but is unreliable…so who knows? All of this makes me negative about trading Desmond for Norris or Wandy.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

If Paulino hadn’t been traded already, by the way, I might be more inclined to consider a Desmond-Norris trade. But we will be losing too much talent from our available starting pitchers now.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 3:21 PM CST up reply actions  

I would be ok with a Desmond for Norris trade. It would definitely require us acquiring another starting pitcher, but given how valuable good young shortstops are, I’d say it would be worth it.

by Snake Diggity on Dec 2, 2010 10:22 AM CST up reply actions  

2011 or not?

If we’re shooting to win in 2011 we go with Aaron Harang and or Brandon Webb and we pay what we need to to get them.

I think since many of you have pointed out that our current core group is still too old to rebuild Wade may be secretly optimistic about this year? The man is not stupid nor is he blind. He knows he can get top prospects for our CF-RF and could probably get something pretty good for Johnson and Wandy but the fact that they’re all still here says something.

However if we truly are rebuilding than this year doesn’t matter and there’s no reason to think we would spend any descent money on pitchers who won’t be here when its time to really contend. Since Dray is selling the team and said to be cutting payroll to less than its been in a long long time I have no idea what the plan is.

The team as is probably won’t compete and without adding an impact bat I don’t really think it matters much who pitches. I can say seeing we have a good pen and good outfielders that we havn’t traded for top prospects that they would surely bring im paying close attention to the outfielder we pick up. That will tell me where this club is headed next year.

by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 1, 2010 4:07 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

PS

Figgy just signed a year for $800,000. Anybody close to descent pitching in AAA? Aside from JL?

by Its Gonna Happen on Dec 1, 2010 4:35 PM CST via mobile reply actions  

If it's going to be just a reliable innings-eating starter

I would just take Kevin Correia at that price. I’d rather not pay about seven million for a potential turkey.

If you could get Brad Penny on a minor league deal, I’d be up for that too.

I just don’t see a need to take a risk financially (even one year) to pick up a high-risk, high-reward starter.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

"I've had people walk out on me before, but not when I was being so charming."

by jonthefon on Dec 1, 2010 6:05 PM CST reply actions  

Just a hunch

but I don’t think Correia will be cheap – maybe 5 or 6 million?

by ol Pete on Dec 1, 2010 7:39 PM CST up reply actions  

2.5 fWAR in 2009, then personal issues in 2010.

Assuming you pay for maybe somewhere between 1 to 2 win value per year for the next two years, 2/10 seems fair…not sure how the market will go though.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

"I've had people walk out on me before, but not when I was being so charming."

by jonthefon on Dec 1, 2010 9:26 PM CST up reply actions  

I like the idea of Correia as well. Seems like a good bet to throw 180+ innings with a league average era. I would think it would be less than $5M. No way he makes more than Garland right? Plus how can you not root for the guy?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=crasnick_jerry&id=5860838

by jmike on Dec 2, 2010 9:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Rich Harden

He seems like he’d be worth a minor league deal and a spring training invite. He’s been good more recently than Brian Bannister. But there’s a lot not to like in the past two years. His walk rate has shot up quite a bit, as have his home runs. On the other hand, his LD rate has decreased quite a bit. And then there’s the injury history.

by texlex on Dec 1, 2010 6:23 PM CST reply actions  

Harden’s velocity has fallen off quite a bit over the past two years. And that helps explains his decline. I’ve fallen off the Harden bandwagon in recent years. He can’t pitch deep into games because of his brittle arm and pitch counts, and when the K rate is no longer good, it’s tough to watch him. Yeah, a minor league deal is OK, but I think someone will give him a ML contract.

by clack on Dec 1, 2010 6:47 PM CST up reply actions  

He was fucking terrible this year.

Watching him was like a repeated screwdriver to the groin. Didn’t really miss bats, walked everyone, velo down, changeup uneven.

Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.

"I've had people walk out on me before, but not when I was being so charming."

by jonthefon on Dec 1, 2010 7:34 PM CST up reply actions  

4) a lefty for the bullpen

Any takers to replace Byrdak and Chacin?

by AstroB on Dec 2, 2010 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

Lived in Seattle for a while, split Mariners/Astros fan.

Ian Snell is a piece of trash.

If you're a fan of basketball, watch a movie called Sonicsgate. It's free, just google it.

by .Bonzo on Dec 4, 2010 4:43 PM CST reply actions  

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