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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Dan Uggla?


He's on the trading block, Astros need a bat up the middle. He's definitely a bat, you think we can get him? And if so, at what cost? He'd be our second highest player as of now, considering we don't go crazy or lose arbitration to some players. Do you think the deal would be worth it? And if we pull it off, would you like Kepp starting at SS and Uggla at 2nd?

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Good timing

I just finished reading the article on mlbtraderumors about Uggla and was thinking, “hmm…wonder if Ed Wade is going to make a play for him?”.

You have think Wade has an offer out there or is at least considering the idea. Wade has even said that offense will be a priority, and considering how neither Manzella (nor anyone else at SS) really came across as a sure thing last season, Uggla would be an instant offensive boost to the lineup. The problems that I can see are:

A) What position does Uggla play when he comes over (2B or 3B)? Are Chris Johnson and Jeff Keppinger long term solutions or merely stop gaps until better players (like Uggla) come along?

B) Even though the Astros could afford to pay his salary, is Uggla a good choice for a team that’s not yet ready to compete?

C) Who are we giving up in return?

by ToyCannon on Nov 14, 2010 10:24 AM CST reply actions  

Oops

Forgot to add…

D) Adding Uggla still doesn’t address one of our most pressing needs: Finding a permanent solution at SS.

by ToyCannon on Nov 14, 2010 10:36 AM CST up reply actions  

I was going to ask about Uggla as well

I think he would make sense at second, whil Keppinger platoons with a low cost free agent at short.

"In the biographies of men and nations, success often arrives in a mask of failure"

by hunterpencefan on Nov 14, 2010 11:47 AM CST reply actions  

Forgot to mention that he’s 30 years old, and this is definitely his prime.

by MatthewT on Nov 14, 2010 11:50 AM CST reply actions  

This is what the Astros need to do in the off season in my opinion:

A) Sign Dan Uggla and put him at 2nd Base
B) Chris Johnson won’t loose his spot at all anytime soon
C) Platoon Jeff Keppinger WITH A player already in the Astros Organization
D) Trade away Tommy Manzella and 1 0r 2 other guys for a SP or sign a cheap Brett Myers kind of guy
E) If Brett Wallace isn’t doing too good at ST, move Carlos to 1st Base and sign Jeff Francoeur to platoon with Jason Michaels in LF

by astros21 on Nov 14, 2010 12:26 PM CST reply actions  

Francoeur is a right-handed hitter.

by Timothy De Block on Nov 14, 2010 1:07 PM CST up reply actions  

no way would I want Jeff Francouer on the Astros. He is not a good player.

by clack on Nov 14, 2010 1:18 PM CST up reply actions  

Sure, I would like Uggla as the Astros’ 2d baseman. But, no, I would not put Keppinger at shortstop. Keppinger’s defense is just not good enough for shortstop. (Keppinger’s best position probably is 3d base; he really is not a good fielding 2d baseman, which means he is unacceptable at shortstop.) Maybe Keppinger would have to be sent to the Marlins in a trade for Uggla.

I think the Marlins are likely to ask for a good prospect plus a major league player in exchange for Uggla. Whether it is a good idea depends on whom those players might be. The Marlins need a major league ready CFer, but I doubt that the Astros have a CFer who is good enough for them (unless perhaps the Astros include Bourn in the trade). The second issue is whether the Astros can sign him to an extension, and if so, whether it will be affordable. Uggla will be a free agent after next year, and it’s not worth trading for him if you can’t sign him to an extension. On the other hand, Uggla apparently insists on a 4 year contract in his negotiations with the Marlins, and I’m not sure I want Uggla if he costs, say, 4/48 million.

by clack on Nov 14, 2010 1:16 PM CST reply actions  

excuse me, the Marlins already offered Uggla a 4 year contract and he turned it down. So that likely means that he would require a 5 year contract. I am skeptical that Uggla has a 5 year shelf life. Meanwhile the Marlins will likely demand enough trade compensation to make up for the loss of a Type A player who would net them a 1st round draft choice after next season.

by clack on Nov 14, 2010 1:33 PM CST up reply actions  

and it was rumored to be a big 4 year contract

by ol Pete on Nov 14, 2010 1:53 PM CST up reply actions  

Yea that may be a regrettable contract in years 4-5, but by then Carlos Lee would be well off the books and we could better afford another overpriced contract. Uggla reportedly wanted 5yrs/58mil. Which is a shade under 12 per, definitely more affordable than El caballo and less to buy out if we try to trade Uggla towards the end.

We could always move him to 3B or LF in a couple of yrs if one of our 2B prospects is ready.

I say let’s go for it: Kepp, Bogey or Shuck, and a bullpen guy for Uggla

by ReHabit on Nov 14, 2010 3:17 PM CST up reply actions  

I like that trade proposal. Bogey won’t hit many homeruns in the majors and we have J-Mike anyway. Of course, if we can get away with Shuck then I’d do that over Bogey. Send Wesley Wright as the bullpen guy.

by BustaPozee on Nov 14, 2010 4:52 PM CST up reply actions  

One thing to consider

Is that aquiring Uggla’s offense makes it more acceptable to keep someone like Manzella on board. A defensive shortstop with good range could shrink the area Uggla would have to cover. Add in a good defensive first baseman, Wallace, and the negative dWar of Uggla would be somewhat diminished.

by ReHabit on Nov 14, 2010 3:07 PM CST reply actions  

Orem and myself were kicking up this possibility

months ago, but the real need is shortstop rather than second base.

Off the top of my head I think the Marlins offered 4 years $48m (one of those years would replace his final arbitration year, 2011).

I say let’s go for it: Kepp, Bogey or Shuck, and a bullpen guy for Uggla

While Uggla might be the middle order bat the Astros are lacking, I’ve got to believe the Marlins will want something like Norris and then some (low cost, team controlled), and then you kick in what Uggla will get from arbitration this season: probably $10m.

N.B. his defense also stinks. Lee + Uggla = worst right side of infield ever.

by AstroB on Nov 14, 2010 3:27 PM CST reply actions  

Paulino, Kepp and position player prospect for Uggla? That’s 3 players under team control for at least 3 more years.

by ReHabit on Nov 14, 2010 5:44 PM CST up reply actions  

Would you rather...?

If we could get Gordon Beckham or Dan Uggla for Bud Norris (and maybe a grade B prospect depending….) who would you rather have? OR would you rather just keep Norris if those are your only 2 options?

I’ll also throw out the same scenario for a player like Stephen Drew. He’s a SS (supposedly) in his prime, left-handed. Norris + a minor leaguer would probably be enough to get him.

I’d prefer Beckham or Drew and don’t think it would be the worst idea to trade SP especially if we sign a low-end free agent SP this offseason. I’d like best if we could try and get a package of Beckham and B. Jenks for Norris and a couple minor leaguers (probably Jay Austin).

by Rhombus67 on Nov 14, 2010 4:22 PM CST reply actions  

I like Uggla

He would provide a big shot in the arm for the offense. However, there are a lot of "ifs". What do the Marlins want for him? What kind of money/years would he demand for a contract extension? Will he sign one upon being traded or will he want to test free agency?

If the price is too steep, no thanks.

One thing to note, trading for Uggla would make signing a player like Carl Crawford more palatable, since Uggla would provide plus power from a middle infield position. It would be a "win now" maneuver in line with David’s thinking in his post the other day, so if we did trade for him, I hope it would not be the only move.

A batting order with Bourn, Crawford, Uggla, Pence, Wallace or Lee, CJ, Juan Uribe, and Jason Castro looks like, actually, an above average offense.

That would also likely put the payroll back over $100M and I don’t know if Drayton wants to spend that much.

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by OremLK on Nov 14, 2010 4:23 PM CST reply actions  

I agree

And that batting order does look nice. But, and you may have mentioned something like this before, there’s still too good a chance that Wallace won’t do much, Lee continues to decline and turns in a sub 15 HR season, CJ has a .680 ops, Uribe falls into Feliz Ravine, and Castro just isn’t ready yet. Then it would be rebuilding take two. Personally I would have fun speculating what prospects they could get for Crawford (if there is no no-trade clause), Uggla, Wandy, and other veterans…but I’d rather have the playoffs…multiple times.

by ntn on Nov 16, 2010 12:51 AM CST up reply actions  

Per Buster Olney: http://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/4289505217478656

The asking price doesn’t appear to be all that high. I think Wade would be doing his due diligence to at least kick the tires on Uggla.

My only problem with Uggla is his poor defense at 2B.

by IndianaAstrofan on Nov 15, 2010 7:01 PM CST reply actions  

I've always wanted to get Uggla

And I don’t mind giving up some players to get him, but it seems like he will just be a rental. But there is still an argument for it. We might be able to deal him at the deadline if we’re out of it (90% chance of that) and get better players than the ones we gave up for him (like the Mariners with Lee). Also he’ll be a type A free agent which is good as long as Heck is still around to make the picks and if we hang on to him. I would like to extend him if it were for 3 years but that’s not happening. I would go up to 4 but that didn’t work for the Marlins, and I think what they offered was about the max I would offer. Maybe he’d like Houston better since there’s no Hanley, so maybe he’d take it here, who knows.

What would you be willing to part with for one year of Uggla? I would do it only costs guys like Shuck, Clemens, Steele, relievers, Keppinger, or an unsignable Wandy (he would probably be a type A too, so draft picks would be a wash if they both hit free agency).

Most likely it’s not worth it. I still think the Astros should aim for a SS that will be here for 2 or 3 seasons until we can realistically expect one of our prospects to be ready and then see how things play out 2011. The only way they are going to compete is if Myers doesn’t fall off too much, Wandy pitches the way he can, Happ is solid, and Norris and Paulino keep moving forward and turn Happ into the number 5. If the starters have a first half like last year’s second half, then I would look for some bats at the deadline. I just don’t want to spend our MLB currency on putting gas in a wrecked car.

by ntn on Nov 15, 2010 8:28 PM CST reply actions  

and

I think Uggla makes too much sense for a team like St. Luis, and the Astros will be outbid. The Cards are built to win now and the 4 or 5 wins that Uggla would add could catch the Reds in 2011. Plus they may want to show Albert that they’re serious.

I won’t get bent out of shape if the Astros don’t go all out for him unless they are planning on going nuts and adding a Carl Crawford and/or a Cliff Lee.

by ntn on Nov 16, 2010 12:07 AM CST up reply actions  

Maybe it’s possible to pull of a Keuchel, Shuck, Clemens, and Keppinger for Uggla?

by Snake Diggity on Nov 15, 2010 8:44 PM CST reply actions  

Asking Price

I read that the Marlins were looking for a pitcher and catcher.

J Towles and Paulino for Uggla would be a decent deal for both sides.

by ReHabit on Nov 15, 2010 11:13 PM CST reply actions  

I still can’t give up on Paulino’s upside myself. I just have a good feeling about him. But that would be fine for the Astros. Paulino for one season of Uggla and draft picks. I think the Marlins would want another part like a Keuchel or something.

by ntn on Nov 16, 2010 12:05 AM CST up reply actions  

If the Marlins would do that deal, it would be an absolute STEAL for Houston. A more likely trade would be Norris and Castro for Uggla.

Think about it, whatever team acquires Ugglas will be able to offer him arbitration and likely receive 2 draft picks for him when he leaves in free agency, so Florida should require some return more valuable than the pick(s) they would get if the just held on to him.

by Snake Diggity on Nov 16, 2010 11:48 AM CST up reply actions  

I'd be surprised

if someone if one of the big beasts that has a hole at second base doesn’t make a play for Uggla with the intention of re-signing him.

Think about it, whatever team acquires Ugglas will be able to offer him arbitration and likely receive 2 draft picks for him when he leaves in free agency, so Florida should require some return more valuable than the pick(s) they would get if the just held on to him.

This is the sort of surprising thing about the ‘low asking price.’ Although the Marlins obviously would have liked to re-sign him at 4 years $48m, it seems as if they would like to get him off this year’s payroll if they can’t have him long-term.

by AstroB on Nov 16, 2010 1:58 PM CST up reply actions  

Verducci

Made that same point, wondering why the Marlins aren’t keeping him with the hopes of contending next year, and if not just trade him at the deadline.

by Timothy De Block on Nov 16, 2010 2:11 PM CST up reply actions  

The source of “low asking price” is Olney’s twitter, and his tweat is subject to interpretation. He said “no A+ prospects” required. Well, that’s good, since the Astros don’t have any A+ prospects, and, frankly, few teams do. He said that they will want a couple of decent players, and we don’t know what that really means. Does it mean an A- prospect and a B+ prospect, which might mean giving up Lyle and Castro? Do Paulino and Keppinger fit that description—who knows?

by clack on Nov 16, 2010 3:50 PM CST up reply actions  

Looks like the Braves landed him

For super-utility man Omar Infante and Mike Dunn, a young, promising lefty relief pitcher.

by AstroAndy on Nov 16, 2010 5:20 PM CST reply actions  

Well that just sucks. We had a chance. We just didn’t do it, now we’re going to suffer. Of course, I don’t think it was bad that we didn’t sign him, we’re just going to hit less home runs. If our pitching just downright sucks next year, then we’re going to suffer a whole lot more than if the Astros acquired Danny. Of course, Danny could mean the difference between possibly kicking the wildcard or ending up in 3rd or 4th place again. Great Hitting goes great with great pitching. Theres’ got to be a balance.

by BustaPozee on Nov 16, 2010 5:39 PM CST up reply actions  

That's too bad

Would you have given up, say, Keppinger and Melancon for him? I would, even though he’s a rental, because Keppinger probably isn’t a long-term building block and relievers are relievers.

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by OremLK on Nov 16, 2010 5:54 PM CST up reply actions  

yes…that’s what I was thinking too when I saw what the Braves had to give up for Uggla. Less than I expected. It’s also interesting that the Marlins were willing to trade in-division.

by clack on Nov 16, 2010 6:14 PM CST up reply actions  

It’s also interesting that the Marlins were willing to trade in-division.

That was my reaction.

by AstroB on Nov 17, 2010 1:13 PM CST up reply actions  

Same here; Kepp and Melancon would be about equal to what Atlanta gave up. Way less than I expected. We should have gotten him, offered him arbitration (but no multi-year deal), and collected the draft picks.

by Snake Diggity on Nov 16, 2010 6:20 PM CST up reply actions  

yep

That was a low price.

by ntn on Nov 16, 2010 11:30 PM CST up reply actions  

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