The Astro Elephant in the Room with Myers
by David Coleman on Jan 9, 2010 7:00 AM CST
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Print"Let me see that million dollar arm, Meat, because I've already got a good idea about that ten-cent head of yours." --Crash Davis
At 5 million on a one-year deal, Brett Myers the pitcher is probably a good deal for the Astros. He's got some value (as long as his drop in strikout rates isn't due to his hip injury or his change in mechanics) and gives Houston more options in the rotation. We have all been pining for another starter since the season ended. Is Myers what we'd hoped for? Not exactly, but he's good enough for a January pickup.
No, the issue here isn't his baseball abilities, it's his personality and what his signing says about the top levels of this organization. One of the commenters from Philly alluded to the quote above when talking about Myers. It made me laugh, especially since I had just re-watched that movie two days ago.
Myers is young. 29 and a free agent. He still only got a one year deal. Teams seemed to be wary of him over a perception that he's got a prickly personality. Plus, he complains about his role and doesn't seem to fit the mold of the current clubhouse. Stories from when the Phillies made Myers their closer always mentioned hs attitude affecting the transition and his subsequent switch back. Granted, Philly fans have been known to be a tad tough on players (they booed Santa Claus, for Pete's sake). I don't get the feeling this is a perception based on that, nor is it a Randy Johnson/Jim Rice situation where the writers don't like a guy because he's not a good quote. It seems like players have not really liked Myers either.
The Astros have fit jerks into the clubhouse in the past. The Jeff Kent stories were pretty classic, but it seemed like they respected him as a player and were able to leave him alone. I'm hoping the Astros will be able to come to terms with Myers in a similar way, and that getting out of the clubhouse he's grown up in as a player will help give him a fresh start.
The thing that still nags at me is the domestic violence charges Myers faced after an incident with his wife in Boston. The story was not a good one for anyone involved, but as I remember, Myers' wife did not press charges. Nothing has happened like that since, but it's out there. Considering the Astros once designated a player for assigment before the story of his domestic violence charges even broke, this seems very hypocritical.
I don't want to moralize. I don't like writers playing the moral police with the Hall of Fame or steroids and I don't want to condemn either the player or the club simply because he had an incident of domestic violence in the past. I certainly wouldn't be friends with the guy and think what he allegedly did was pretty scummy. Bad guys can still win the World Series.
But, you can't have it both ways. The Astros made the decision to deal with Julio Lugo's situation by immediately cutting ties with him. A valuable player, Lugo was let go as the organziation made a decision based on off-the-field behavior. They drew a line at what's acceptable behavior. If that's how they want to run things, I'm fine with it , but you lose any moral high ground when you sign another guy with an alleged incident in his past. Yes, the Lugo situation happened eight years ago and some of the managment has changed, but I get the feeling the Lugo stuff came down from Drayton. He hasn't gone anywhere (yet).
So, I just felt obligated to bring this up. It has nothing to do with how he'll do as a player (probably), but his personality and off-the-field issues have to be mentioned. We've discussed them here and we can move on to spring training talk.
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Just waking up so it'd be irresponsible of me to engage anything from the article
But kudos on the Bull Durham quote.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
Very appropriate, as I’ve noted previously. You’re right, he’s only 29/30, but so far, this guy with a supposed high ceiling has only gone up a half-flight in a split level.
And puh-leez. The Houston franchise was named after sidearms when Philadelphia fans booed Santa Claus. And it really was because that Santa sucked.
As a Mets fan I certainly wanted no part of Myers, but that's more a result of his Phillies background than his personality.
He’s a jerk, but his off-field issues have only amounted to one incident that goes beyond general douchery. I doubt he’ll ever be a fan favorite there, or anywhere he goes for that matter. I think it speaks for Drayton that he would at least give Myers an opportunity. Cutting Lugo after he got into trouble certainly said something about what the club feels is acceptable behavior. I think it speaks to the positive of the club that they are willing to give Myers a chance years after his transgression. I honestly would have more respect for a club willing to give a player the benefit of the doubt over one that makes assumptions about a man due to one incident in his life. It would be different if this type of behavior was a pattern, but the guy at least deserves a chance to prove he’s moved on.
"We're just as bad as the old Mets, but this time nobody's laughing"
-Dallas Green
I tend to agree with your point.
I didn’t like it when Lugo was let go by the way. That’s because I happen to believe in the American justice system and the concept of innocent until proven guilty. I wouldn’t want to work for an employer who fires employees based on an allegation rather than a conviction. The Astros’ let Lugo go for image sake; although Hunsicker later tried to cover it by saying the decision was based on performance (he was in a slump). Everyone in the clubhouse, from Kent to Bagwell, was upset by the decision, for much the same reason I mentioned above.
Myers domestic abuse allegation never even went as far as Lugo’s. The Boston DA said he didn’t have the evidence to go forward. And that is despite the fact that the domestic abuse charges can be filed without the victim testifying or pressing charges (the Harris County DA went to trial against Lugo even after the victim recanted). Yeah, the situation looked bad for Myers, but none of us know for certain exactly what happened or the circumstances. So, yes, I agree with the post, above, that I would credit a team for letting a guy get a second chance after something like that.
I have some concern about Myers’ temper and tendency for “foot in mouth.” I think “meathead” may be a good characterization. But I never really heard anything to the effect that teammates didn’t like him. The only thing that might qualify is his confrontation with Hamel during the World Series; and I believe Myers was trying to help the team and Hamels, however misguided his approach might have been. I think the fact that he was well liked in the clubhouse is one reason that he got away with some of his outrageous quotes without a suspension or the like. (Before I get too carried away, I should mention that Shawn Chacon was well-liked in the clubhouse, both here and in Pittsburgh.) I do think the dog eat dog nature of the media in Philly probably contributed to Myers’ problems (much the same way that the Chicago media contributed to Milton Bradley’s problems as a Cub). He called a reporter a “retard” and almost went to fist city when the reporter responded that Myers can’t spell “retard.” However, the reporter did appear to be baiting him after a losing game, by in essence calling him a liar. I do think there is a possiblity that Myers’ foot in mouth disease may get better in a lower key media environment like Houston—-just as Milton Bradley will probably benefit from a less competitive media market in Seattle.
I mentioned the Hamel incident as the only case I knew which indicated a conflict with teammates. And I have seen other quotes from teammates (like Utley) who seem to like Brett Myers’ clubhouse presence. This blog quote from Aaron Gleeman seems to cast doubt about the nature of the whole Hamel incident, making it seem like nothing at all:
According to his (Tim Brown’s) account Myers said, “What are you doing here? I thought you quit” in response to Hamels’ previous quotes about wanting the season to be over and then Hamels “responded with an expletive.”
However, Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com witnessed the incident from “maybe five feet away” and writes that he “thought Myers was joking” and “did not even consider writing about it.” Here’s more from Rosenthal:
Myers walked by Hamels’ locker as he left the clubhouse. The two are good friends and Myers is bit of a wise guy, the kind who always has something to say. He made his remark in passing, not in an in-your-face way.
Brown’s original report had Hamels being “guided away by a team official” before things got out of hand, but Rosenthal suggests that “Charlie Manuel was waiting to meet with Hamels in his office” and public-relations director Greg Casterioto “walked him there.”
Innocent until proven guilty is a legal philosophy, kind of like free speech; it’s necessary from a legal standpoint, but shouldn’t be used as an excuse to dismiss extra-legal social and practical consequences for one’s actions. Business owners are free not to hire someone if they think he/she has questionable moral character, as they should be.
Let’s also remember that the state didn’t hold Myers responsible because his wife dropped the charges, not because the case was tested in a court of law. The incident was public, in front of witnesses, and we have testimonies like this about his behavior:
Knight, a witness to the June 22, 2006 incident, said this to the Globe at the time:“He was dragging her by the hair and slapping her across the face. She was yelling, ’I’m not going to let you do this to me anymore.’ . . . He had her on the ground. He was trying to get her to go, and she was resisting. She curled up and sat on the ground. He was pulling her, her shirt was up around her neck. . . . He could have cared less that we were there.”[/quote]
Don’t know about you, but that gets me seeing red.
Sorry, messed up the quote tags:
Knight, a witness to the June 22, 2006 incident, said this to the Globe at the time:
"He was dragging her by the hair and slapping her across the face. She was yelling, ’I’m not going to let you do this to me anymore.’ . . . He had her on the ground. He was trying to get her to go, and she was resisting. She curled up and sat on the ground. He was pulling her, her shirt was up around her neck. . . . He could have cared less that we were there."
The DA could have proceeded without the victim pressing charges. The fact that he didn’t tells me that he believe the evidence was inadequate. Eyewitness evidence is notoriously inaccurate and misleading. I’m not saying that this quote is inacurrate or not, but a quote in a newspaper, without cross-examination, is not reliable enough to conclude someone is guilty. I’m not excusing any bad actions if it occurred. All I’m saying is that I can’t know for sure. Unlike the Astros’ actions on Lugo, the Phillies didn’t suspend or take action against Myers. And I wouldn’t have a problem if he had been suspended with pay, in that situation, until the legal consequences are resolved.
Another point, it is true that business owners are free to hire people based on perceptions of morality. However, firing somone or terminating someone’s contract can be a different situation, depending on the circumstances (such as a labor union contract). Earlier I mentioned that Hunsicker tried to justify the Lugo release as performance-related and denied that the domestic violence charge brought against Lugo was the reason. (Hunsicker said the Astros were prepared to make a performance related change before the incident, and Lugo’s incident only made it happen quicker, because they were concerned that Lugo would be distracted by the courtroom issues.) I am guessing that Hunsicker tried to claim it was a performance-related release because he didn’t want to face a grievance from the MLBPA.
Some choice quotes found by Ty in Tampa at Spikes n Stars, where I occasionally lurk:
“I know there are people out there that think I’m a jerk. There are people out there who think I’m a wife-beater. That will never change,” says Myers, alluding to a 2006 incident in which he was arrested and charged in Boston with assaulting his wife, Kim.
“But you know what, I really don’t care what people think about me. … If people don’t like me, they can deal with it. This is who I am.”
http://soxblog.projo.com/…8/10/brett-myers-tal.html
Astros president of business operations Pam Gardner is on the board of directors of the Houston Area Women’s Center, which assists those affected by domestic violence.
“My first reaction is how our organization deals with this and I was proud that our organization dealt with it in the way it did,‘’ Gardner said. "We made a statement how we deal not with just domestic violence but violence of any kind.
“It’s unacceptable. We clearly stated that and I’m proud of that."
http://sports.espn.go.com…?id=1547624&type=news
The Pam Gardner quote was to how Astros acted on Julio Lugo
not to Brett Myers signing.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Jan 9, 2010 3:52 PM CST up reply actions
Brett Myers the practical joker.
Myers masterminded one of the great practical jokes of the youtube era. Here is the video.
Myers got the GM, Amauro, and the Manager, Manuel, as well as members of the Philly media, to play along with this elaborate hoax, in which rookie Kyle Kendrick was told that he had been traded to Japan. Myers does a pretty good job of acting.
Someone posted this video to show that Myers is a “jack ass.” Perhaps he is a jack ass, but I think this joke was done really well and seemed to get nothing but laughter out of Kendrick and the Phillies clubhouse.
The “Japanese pitcher” in the supposed deal is in reality a competitive eating champion, which was a nice touch. It was pretty funny, but even in this hoax there’s an underbelly of mean-spiritedness. OK, so he has a sense of humor, but he’s also kind of an angry kook.
by Wet Luzinski on Jan 10, 2010 10:10 AM CST up reply actions
Playing jokes on rookies is one of the traditions of the MLB clubhouse. Rookies go through something like a hazing process (I’m sure you’ve seen the rookies who have to dress up like women as they go through the airport on one of the September road trips…it happens with almost every team). Given that context, I’m not sure I see mean spiritedness, as much as Myers going a little overboard with this joke.
If you're getting a manager and a GM to go along with something like this
You’re obviously doing something right.
by Timothy De Block on Jan 11, 2010 9:03 AM CST up reply actions
the wife beating is NOT alleged. it was witnessed and photographed by multiple people. it actually happened. it is not a woman accusing a man without proof.
he received “another chance”: after he punched his wife in her face. In fact, he received MULTIPLE chances for 3 more years with a 3 year contract.
will be interesting to hear how pam gardner explains how the astros now feel differently about having players on the team who punch women in the face.
but ed wade was right to sign him
it is more than obvious that the vast majority of astros fans don’t think there is anything wrong with wife beaters as long as they pitch well
would you have a problem if he was punching his small children in the face too? or would that be OK as long as he was pitching decently?
as for the DA not pressing charges
it isn’t uncommon that the DA doesn’t do it IF there is not a specific law that demands he do so even if the beaten woman doesn’t want it.
- it is very hard to win a case if the woman testifies on behalf of the man
a horrifying number of women don’t want charges pressed against the man who beat them up
Viva El Pest
Lisa
I’ll preface with: my memory on this is foggy. But at the time I recall it only involving eye witness testimony. I don’t recall seeing a picture of Brett Myers anywhere. I just did a five minute Google image search, and I don’t see it.
I don’t want to denigrate the gravitas or delicacy of this issue, but I can’t also just assume that Brett Myers took the altercation to the level it was reported at. Does it excuse anything he did? No. Does it mean we should assume he’s nothing but an ignorant wife beater who got away with it because he’s a professional athlete? NO. The truth lies somewhere in between he did nothing wrong, and he’s a completely guilty of something atrocious. Where it actually lies is something to have been worked out between he and his wife, and law enforcement as well. There seems to have been some kind of a peace reached.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Jan 10, 2010 12:22 PM CST up reply actions
I haven’t seen the photographic evidence, Lisa. But as I said before, oral statements by witnesses appearing in a newspaper are not evidence. We don’t know whether they are credible until they have been cross-examined. We don’t even know what they told police in their statements to them; for all we know, the prosecutors may have seen problems in the statements. As I’ve said, I don’t excuse any person engaging in violence against another person, but I prefer to give someone the benefit of the doubt before I conclude they are a criminal when the legal system has concluded they are innocent (i.e., they are presumed innocent). If you prefer to make your own determination of his guilt, you’re free to do so. I’ve only told you how I view it.
brett myers beatying his wife
DQ and clack,
i also have googled for pics/videos – and i spent a LOT of time yesterday doing so, and can’t find anything. but i do remember seeing something at the time myers hit his wife, but didn’t save it or write it up because he was on a different team.
i was NOT happy that bud selig chose to ignore it, neither
myers is LEGALLY not guilty of anything. it doesn’t mean he is INNOCENT. he certainly hasn’t been FOUND innocent. there are many times that someone who is guilty is not tried and or charges dropped because of technicalities or lousy evidence gathering or witnesses basically refuse to testify – excuses like, well, i disremember – or they vanish, or whatever
there were MULTIPLE witnesses, who did not report conflicting stories to the media. and these were people who didn’t know the myers and had no dog in the fight. so to speak…
unfortunately, a lot of people don’t understand that assault is a crime against the government, like murder or theft or rape. even though a person is involved. and even more unfortunately, the victim refusing to testify – and mrs myers can’t be forced to testify against her husband – makes cops/prosecutors/judges not prosecute or drop the charges.
and a whole lot of people don’t want to get involved when it comes to domestic violence because they don’t personally agree that it is a CRIME, but just a, well, property dispute. and then, of course, there is the very real problem of many women who won’t testify against or leave their vicious, violent men, not because they have no money or nowheres to go, but because they LIKE IT. they WANT that relationship and getting hit is the price they pay, like a hangover after getting drunk. but the drunk is worth the hangover.
sigh
and of course we don’t know whether or not kim gets beat up a lot or not because unless she tells the cops/media, or friends or family do, it is somethingt that will stay hidden until their sons start beating up women because that is what they have been taught to do
as for giving someone the benefit of the doubt, i do that if it is an unwitnessed thing and is a he said/she said argument. and i know VERY well that there are plenty of false accusations made by women and that too many men have their asses dragged off to jail with NO evidence at all, just the say so of the woman.
but this was different.
it will be interesting to see how many fans who NOW have no problem with mr wife-assaulter being signed will suddenly start to feel different if he pitches lousy…
it is sad that fans don’t care what evil athletes do as long as he does well for their own team
Viva El Pest
I agree with most of the general statements you have made about domestic violence situations. However, I don’t think it’s fair to either Myers or his wife for me to speculate on their relationship. I am definitely not comfortable calling him an “evil athlete.” People can be jerks, meatheads, or even criminals, and still not be evil. I would have to know a lot more about the situation to say that. People can make severe mistakes and not be evil.
I am sure that Myers will be under a microscope if he does anything which is violent or threatening, either at home or as an Astros player. It’s up to him to avoid those situations.
Fans can love or hate Myers; that’s their perogative, and it happens to all kinds of athletes. Given the amount of time which has elapsed since the Boston incident, I don’t see any reason to deny Myers the right to engage in his occupation and earn a living.
I’m sure fans will “turn” on Myers if he doesn’t perform well. That always seems to happen.
Also
Reading over an article published at that time, there were conflicting reports between the wife and the witnesses.
She told police her husband hit her in the face twice with his fist, according to the police report. Witnesses said he slapped her and then pulled her off the ground by her hair.
If you look at the several comments from witnesses in the article some have her being pulled by her hair, others say it’s a shirt. The point being that not everything about the incident is clear and it appears that some information is being exaggerated.
by Timothy De Block on Jan 11, 2010 9:25 AM CST up reply actions
Richard Justice column and USA Today interview...
Richard Justice addresses Myers’ domestic violence charge here. He links to this 2008 USA Today article, which he says is the only interview in which both husband and wife talk about the episode. The USA Today article is a more in depth look at Myers’ personality too. It may not change any minds, but it is interesting. I think it is consistent with my impression that Myers is well liked by his teammates.
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