More on the Astros Minor Leagues
I have some more coherent thoughts on what a good farm system means to the big league team and why I don't inherently trust Baseball America's rankings.
Everyone likes lists. Heck, I enjoy making a Top 5 Favorite Movies list or a Best Songs of 2010 list. Ranking things is important to people; that's why we have so much discussion about the Hall of Fame, right? Isn't that basically a big List of the Best Baseball Players of All-Time? That's why the BA list gets so much scrutiny each year. Their track record for scouting and rankings is well-established. People inside and outside the industry respect the work they do. Why should I question that? Because I don't know what their methodology is.
It's nice enough for this article to prove that the rankings do have some predictive power. What I wonder about is how they come up with these rankings. Is it a gut feeling? Do they have a big magnet board with all the teams and move them around until everyone is happy? Or, more probably, do they weight each prospect a certain way and give points to the teams, so it's broken down quantitatively?
As I said, I'm sure their method is something close to the latter. They just don't publicize how they choose. They might discuss the merits of this prospect or that, how this team has added a bunch of talent, but they haven't ever (to my knowledge) shown what drove that decision.
I can understand if they use a grading system like John Sickels over at Minor League Ball. That would make it easy to compare players by grade, see which system has the strongest grades and rank accordingly. While you can quibble with the individual grades, there's a clear rationale behind it, other than "Trust us, we know who's good and who's not." Baseball America probably knows better than I do, that's true, but when you're basing your view of an organization on this, shouldn't you have more to go on?
For instance, when the Astros picked Jason Castro over Justin Smoak in the 2008 draft, analysts ripped them left and right. Smoak then flew through the minors and is listed by at least one publication as one of the top 10 prospects in baseball. Castro has also risen quickly and, while highly rated, isn't viewed with the same kind of respect as Smoak, which is one of the reasons why the Rangers are ranked first in BA's list. Smoak, though, would be blocked by both Carlos Lee and Lance Berkman. If Wade and Co. made the decision after 2010 to let Berkman walk for Smoak, he'd be roasted over the coals in Houston. Drafting Smoak would have created an unnecessary surplus value. Drafting Castro gave the Astros a solid prospect who should impact the major league roster this season at a position that is not only more scarce than first base, but is also an organizational need. In this situation, shouldn't more credit be given to the Astros farm system for producing a player that helps an area of weakness for the major league club?
That's the main thrust of my disagreement. While BA's rankings do seem to have some predictive power, I'd feel better knowing a little more about what goes into those rankings. Of course, it won't stop me from buying the new Prospect Guide when it comes out next month, but it'd be nice to know. Onto some bullet points:
- The re-signing of Jason Bourgeois means that he was probably told he'd get significant playing time at Round Rock next season. Farmstros has a breakdown of what the roster might look like, pre-Bourgeois. It's pretty obvious there could be a logjam in the outfield at Round Rock. Some of you have suggested Bourgeois could play second in a pinch, but with Jose Vallejo at 2B, that's probably not going to happen consistently with the Express. Bourgeois is also not going to cut into the time of Bogusevic, which leaves Drew Locke and Yordany Ramirez as the potential victims.
- The other thing I'd bring up is that Collin DeLome should probably get some consideration to go to Round Rock in 2010, because it's not clear what another season in the Texas League would give him. His plate discipline is bad, but playing as a 24-year old in the same league isn't going to encourage anyone, even if he does pull it together. With Locke, the team could play him at first, cutting into the playing time of Jimmy Van Ostrand. Any way you look at it, the Astros have too many outfielders. I expect at least one to get the boot. If the Astros don't believe enough in Ramirez' bat, he could be the odd man out, with Bourgeois slotting into right field and Bogusevic moving over into center. I don't love any of those options, so it will be very interesting to see how this all plays out.
- It's never too early to start looking ahead to which prospects we might pick in the 2010 draft. Having an affinity for local kids and lacking in depth at third base, Spencer Davis of The Woodlands makes some sense. I'm assuming the Astros will probably take a pitcher with the eighth pick and, if so, Davis could be the guy at No. 19. The Astros definitely need third basemen. Currently, their minor league depth chart there looks pretty thin. After Chris Johnson at Triple-A, the Astros don't really have another third base prospect above High A ball. Even then, that guy is Ebert Rosario, who will be 23 this season and didn't light it up in a brief callup to Lancaster. The Astros drafted Erik Castro and Jonathan Meyer at third in 2009 and each played in short season ball, but neither stood out in limited plate appearances. It would definitely be nice to add some depth to that position, especially someone with a little pop at the hot corner like Davis.
- Another ringing endorsement for Henry Villar from Scouting the Sally. For those unfamiliar with the website, former college player Mike Newman tries to go to as many South Atlantic League games as he can and eyeball prospects from there. He's written some good scouting reports on some of Houston's minor leaguers, including one on Jay Austin that kept me from being overly pessimistic about his season.
- Finally, a note on Minor Musings, my blog where I let all of my fascination with the Astros minor leagues hang out. Since Farmstros does such a great job of recapping the weekly top performers, I won't bother you with my daily recaps of who's doing well, etc. What I'm thinking now is that I can post once a week, possibly the same day the Farmstros Five goes live, I'll put an updated post on here with links to any features or longform analysis. I was happy with how I covered the draft last year, and will probably do something similar here. If there's anything you want to see prospect-related, let me know and I'll see if I can get you an article or two.
- Oh, and I discovered this morning that my USB drive had crashed, rendering about three months of prospect data moot, including the stuff I had on Daniel Meszaros. I'll try to get something up later this afternoon on Chia-jen Lo, but this whole project just got pushed back a little.
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why not...
you don’t see it very often, but why dont the Astros trade prospects like Locke or Ramirez for another prospect that might be blocked in another system??
It's possible
It might be something that happens during spring training. Let them show off their skills a little to help make them more “desired,” then offer them up.
It should be noted that the positional value for outfielders is low. Also, guys like Locke and Ramirez are old, too old to be very valuable—and Ramirez is awful offensively. Our only “real” outfield prospects are at the lower levels of the system—Gaston, Steele, Austin, Shuck. They’re not high enough in the organization to be blocked by the logjam yet, which is probably why the front office isn’t too concerned with trading them for infielders at this point.
To add to the logjam.
The Astros also signed NRI minor league outfielder David Cook to a contract. One would imagine that he ends up on the Round Rock roster.
HLP, Andy, and I discussed Cook at the bottom of the fan post comments here.
I was actually looking at the possibility of the astros alternating those picks in the draft and go with a college 3d baseman with the 8th pick and high school pitcher 19th pick. Why? I think we need at least one early round college position player and of course a high school arm because Heck loves them. Jameson Taillon will be gone by the 8th pick and there are a couple college guys that are promising that will be available at the top of the draft and would basically be the jason castro at 3d base for the system. A guy like Zac Cox out of Arkansas would be really nice. He has the ability to stick at 3d and has power. 8th overall is probably the highest he’d go so it wouldn’t be too much of an overdraft. Then there is Victor Sanchez out of San Diego who is considered late 1st to supplemental or even early 2nd round right now. So he could fit the mold of a late 1st round guy taken high like Castro if Heck likes him. Then there are guys like Kris Bryant from Bananza HS in Nevada and Nick Castallanos from a HS in Florida. Although a lot of sites are predicting Christian Colon a college SS or Devon Washington 2B/CF. I don’t like Washington mostly because he doesn’t have a sure position yet, his bat is lagging but he is just an athlete and may not be able to stick at 2b and i think we need a sure fire IF over a possible IF guy and i don’t think we’ll go for a SS with the first pick 2 years in a row especially since most see Mier as a guy who will shoot up through the minors rather quickly.
I’d like to see them to load up on college infielders with our first three picks. We’re at the point where it’d be good to pick up guys a little closer to the majors, I think, and we desperately need not just third base prospects, but second base as well. Couldn’t hurt to have more depth at shortstop either.
Of course, they always say they simply draft the best player available, but as David pointed out, I’m not sure I buy it.
You already mentioned Cox, Colon, and Sanchez; I’m also high on Rick Hague out of Rice and a few others. Of course, I’m not a scout, and I trust Bobby Heck to make the right choices. Hopefully they continue the pattern of picking solid players which feel a need in the organization.
I would love to get that many IF prospects but there are just too many HS arms at the top of every draft to pass up because there is loads of potential and would prefer getting one, and if taillon is available id grab him.
by Subber10 on Jan 21, 2010 7:02 PM CST via mobile up reply actions
Yeah I suppose Taillon would be a good exception. Still… I hope we get some good college infielders.
Heck will undoubtedly take a HS pitcher with either the two 1st rounds, supplemental or 2nd round pick. My guess would actually be one of the two 1st rounders. We’ll know more after the college and HS seasons get underway and guys improve or drop their stock. But this looks to be a very strong pitching draft with HS being a lot stronger than the college group. Most of the college guys project as big armed relievers. My thought is we’ll take a college 3b and a HS arm with the first two picks and either another pitcher or OF in the supplemental round or maybe a 2b.
here’s the problem i have with drafting a high school pitcher: The astros farm system hasnt promoted a pitcher younger than 24 or 25 in how long??? so if we have to wait 6 years to see these guys, then what do we do until 2016? thats a long time to wait. maybe the college guys with the extra experience/coaching would be closer to making the big club
That trend might be changing
and someone correct me if I am misinformed but I believe Jordan Lyles is heading to Corpus Christi and he was drafted out of high school in 2008.
by Timothy De Block on Jan 22, 2010 7:37 AM CST up reply actions
Possibly
Thats the best case scenario right now. That will be decided probably in extended spring training for the minor leaguers. The FO wants him to skip Lancaster for obvious reasons but many “experts” don’t think he is ready for AA and it could dampen his development. I don’t expect the highly touted HS pitchers to take 6 years to reach the majors, i expect 4 would be a closer number. A college pitcher would definetly make it to the majors quicker for the most part since they are closer, BUT, most of these guys don’t have the talent the HS guys, thats why most went to college in the first place as opposed to getting drafted and signing. Now there are exceptions like aaron crow who just didn’t get the money he wanted and go to college to try and get more money the next year. But, look at david duncan, big name college pitcher and he is underperforming lyles and seaton and will likely be back in lancaster this year or maybe get a shot at AA.
Young outfielders
Gaston, Steele,Austin and Shuck will get their opportunities soon enough. Don’t dismiss Delome, he may be the most well rounded of the bunch. Delome seems to get lost in the discussion of Astros young outfielders. However, Delome can play all three OF positions, runs fairly well and leads the Astros minor leagues in HR’s and triples the last 2 years, 48 HR’s and 25 triples; without the benfit of playing in Califorina. I expect to see him in RR, if not, he gone in the 2010 Rule 5 draft.
DeLome is OK
A little younger than Locke, Ramirez, and Bogusevic, and more power than the latter two. That said, he has bad plate discipline. Strikes out a bunch and his walk rate is mediocre-to-bad. Last year was only his second full season as a pro, so he could work out those problems, but so far he hasn’t shown any signs of fixing them.
Delome
Agree, Delome needs to improve plate discipline. I was hoping the Astros would play Bogy, Locke and Delome in RR, Gaston, Steele and Shuck in CC. I believe by playing up the younger players the Astros will find out soon enough if they any quality OF’s in the minors. I don’t want to see the Astros system crowded by AAAA potential and 28-30 year old ex major leaguers.
Agree
DeLome deserves a chance in RR this year. Bogusevic is a sure bet for a roster spot in RR. Locke’s #’s in AA last year warrant him a look in RR this year as well. Looks like Van Ostrand is penciled in at 1B. That leaves Bourgeois, Ramirez, Romero, Ori, Cook, and Parejo fighting for 2 OF reserve spots.
by Snake Diggity on Jan 22, 2010 11:37 AM CST up reply actions
Smoak
Their is always the possibility of Berkman (and/or Lee) going down with an injury, like last year. If Smoak’s in the system their is the possibility that he would of played last year instead of Coste and Erstad.
My other point would be that with Berkman coming up on the last year of his contract the Astros can stand a little firmer in negotiations and keep the price of his contract down because theirs someone behind him in the minors. Not that I’d want to see Berkman let go after his contract is up, but he has talked about retirement and it would be nice to have a prospect to replace him if he decides to do so.
The other advantage is that if Berkman does sign a new deal and stays Smoak then become expandable and provides value in a trade.
by Timothy De Block on Jan 22, 2010 7:50 AM CST reply actions
Valid points and would be great had we been in the position to do something like that. Systems like the rangers can do stuff like that. We cant, we have to draft a guy we know will help out on the roster directly not via trade. I think that heck had the major league roster and contracts in mind when he drafted castro, had castro been an OF or 1b like smoak he wouldnt have been drafted. With someone similar in a need position been available
by Subber10 on Jan 22, 2010 9:23 AM CST via mobile up reply actions

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