Tommy Manzella vs. Adam Everett
September is here, rosters have expanded, and the Astros are pretty well out of contention. At this point, most Fans (meaning those who are still paying attention to the Astros) really would like to get a good look at what Tommy Manzella can do on the big-league level. With the possibility that Tejada could move to 3B and Roy Oswalt’s call for more defense, it makes sense to see if the young (for an Astro) shortstop can handle the position.
The Round Rock Express play their final game of the season on Monday, September 7, and it’s possible that Manzella could get a call-up soon afterward. The general consensus about Manzella is that his defense is major-league ready, even drawing comparisons to notable glove-artist Adam Everett. This would be an excellent asset for the Astros. In 2009, Miguel Tejada has an Ultimate Zone Rating (UZR) of -9.7. Jeff Keppinger hasn’t been as bad, but has posted a -4.4 UZR. By comparison, Everett’s UZR in 2005 was +15.0.
Everett’s defense saved a lot of runs during his tenure. He saved so many runs, in fact, that he was able to post positive Wins Above Replacement (WAR) in each of his 5 full seasons as an Astro:
|
Year |
WAR |
Dollar Value of WAR |
|
2002 |
2.4 |
$6.7M |
|
2003 |
2.3 |
$7.2M |
|
2004 |
2.3 |
$7.8M |
|
2005 |
2.6 |
$9.5M |
|
2006 |
1.0 |
$4.1M |
Unfortunately, Manzella’s glove isn’t the only thing drawing comparisons to Adam Everett…there are also questions about whether Manzella’s bat will play at the next level. Despite his stellar defense, Everett drew frequent criticism from less sabermetric-oriented fans for his lack of offensive prowess. He was a regular part of the "black hole of offense" occupying the 7, 8, and 9 spots in the lineup (usually including Ausmus and the pitcher). The big question with Manzella is whether he’ll be able to rise to the bare minimum Adam Everett-level of offense.
We can compare how Everett did in his time in AAA with the year Manzella had in 2009. And we can compare how Everett did with the Astros with Manzella’s Minor League Equivalency (MLE) statistics, a projection of how his AAA performance would translate to the majors. Here’s a big table with all of those stats in it:
|
AVG |
OBP |
SLG |
OPS |
BB/SO |
|
|
Everett - AAA Career |
.255 |
.313 |
.361 |
.674 |
145/249 = 0.582 |
|
Manzella - AAA - 2009 |
.290 |
.341 |
.421 |
.762 |
39/96 = 0.406 |
|
Everett - Astros |
.248 |
.299 |
.357 |
.656 |
131/347 = 0.378 |
|
Manzella - MLE |
.247 |
.288 |
.348 |
.636 |
29/98 = 0.296 |
A quick look shows that Manzella’s rate stats compare favorably to Adam’s relatively steady 4-year AAA career. His BB/SO, though, shows that Manzella is not quite as patient as Everett was at the same stage of his career. This will probably result in a less smooth transition to the majors for Manzella than Everett had. Comparing Everett’s Astro-career and Manzella’s MLE suggests that they could be very similar players on offense.
If Manzella’s defense really is up to Everett level, then we would probably do well to get him up in the majors very soon so that he can start getting used to major league pitching.
2 recs |
12 comments
|
Comments
playing devil's advocate....
showing 4 years of Adam Everett in AAA versus Manzella’s most recent year in AAA may not be comparable. Over 30% of Manzella’s AAA at bats were in 2008, which were terrible. Manzella’s MLE for the 2008 AAA season is something like .185 BA with a .450 OPS. Manzella’s combined AAA batting is on the order of .270 BA and .700 OPS. Manzella’s MLE OPS for 08/09 AAA is somewhere south of .600. We can hope that Manzella’s 2009 AAA numbers are more representative of his talent. But it’s also possible that his true offensive talent lies somewhere between his 2008 and 2009 AAA batting. Of course, we won’t know anything unless we see him at the major league level, which hopefully will happen in September.
Manzella’s range is supposed to be good, but I think he may have a weaker arm than Everett. I don’t expect him to be as good as Everett defensively…but that doesn’t mean much. It’s like saying Michael Bourn isn’t as good as Willy Mays. That doesn’t mean that Bourn isn’t good.
by clack on Sep 3, 2009 6:05 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I should add, I think you did a good job, Andy, and made some good points. The comment, above, just reflects maybe a tad more pessimistic view.
by clack on Sep 3, 2009 6:10 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You never know.
Keep in mind that if we ARE keeping Miggy Tejada and moving him to 3B, it won’t be too much of an offensive downgrade at SS. At bat we’d be replacing Geoff Blum, in essence, who is a career .251/.311/.389 hitter. Fairly similarly, a little better than Manzella’s MLE, but you never know. Maybe he will be better than his MLE. On the other hand, maybe he will be worse.
by OremLK on Sep 4, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't get me wrong
I’m not saying Blum would have played SS for us next year, of course he wouldn’t. But he’s been the main guy at 3B this year—he would be replaced by Tejada, and Manzella would come into the lineup at SS.
by OremLK on Sep 4, 2009 12:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent counterpoints, clack
My perception of Manzella has been that he still needs to make a few more refinements, either on offense or on defense to be worth more than just a replacement player. The fact that he made such improvements from 2008 to 2009 gives me hope that he’ll be able to make the adjustments up to the major league level (unfounded optimism really helps when following this team).
by AstroAndy on Sep 4, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My subjective impression from seeing Manzella man SS twice
Is that he has the range to be successful and probably the arm strength. The thing that I noticed, though, was that he seems to lack accuracy. That might not be terrible seeing as how Lance is an excellent “scooper,” but when the throw counts because there’s a speedster, or it was a ball deep in the hole, I can see this limiting his effectiveness.
As for his bat, I get the feeling it’ll be a wait and see how he adjusts type thing. I don’t think he’ll be much more than a .720 OPSer and probably consistently below .700, but if he refines his defense, he’ll be worth the offensive black hole.
Either way, though, excellent work—per usual—Andy.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by Stephen Higdon on Sep 4, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
With the emergence of bourn at leadoff, a full season of berkman, hopefully a more consistent pence, tejada to not decline much, similar numbers from lee, i think we should have a pretty good front half of a line up to put up some runs with occasional contributions from matsui. So manzella wont have much pressure to perform offensively. But the point is that the amount of runs he could prevent from happening with his defense would be much greater than the little we would lose offensively. His defense could probably help out our pitching problems a little too. Our starters wouldnt give up as many hits and maybe last another third inning or a full inning in some cases, amd not tax the bullpen as much(or we could just get rid of cooper)
by Subber10 on Sep 4, 2009 2:20 PM CDT via mobile reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention
That we can save on payroll by dropping one more veteran… payroll that should go toward pitching.
by OremLK on Sep 5, 2009 6:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
it would actually go to paying the salary bumps for pence bourn and wandy
by Subber10 on Sep 5, 2009 10:16 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Manzella and Total Zone...
There really aren’t any advanced fielding metrics for the minor league (well, if there are any, they are proprietary and maintained by MLB teams). The closest we have is TotalZone, which is a proxy measure when play-by-play defensive data is not available. TotalZone uses boxscore type data in a model which produces results which are reasonably correllated with the results from zone rating, UZR, etc. TotalZone is useful, but for any given player, I’m not sure if it is reliable.
With that caveat, I am a bit concerned that Manzella’s TotalZone results are fairly erratic from year to year. In 2009, Manzella is -3 runs/150 in AAA. In 2008, Manzella was good in Round Rock, +12 runs/150, but poor in Corpus Christi, -6 runs/150. In 2007, Manzella was -23 in Corpus Christi and +20 in Salem. Perhaps we are just seeing up and down results due to sample sizes in each minor league stop.
by clack on Sep 5, 2009 3:13 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don’t need another adam everitt…ever…..find a 3rd baseman who can hit instead….why do we have to have auto-outs at ss,c,…..no jr towles either…the everitt comment above means I don’t want to see manzella either…..please drayton…sell the team and fire coop before you go
by flitemedic on Sep 7, 2009 7:46 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Here’s what you said elsewhere, flitemedic…I figured I’d do a consolidated reply:
Please what is it with you guys wanting another everitt…….I can live with Tejada…but manzella…pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez…….how about a hitting 3rd baseman(c.Johnson)…then we don’t need to move Tejada……i’m tired of light hitting ss’s…..Dickie Thon was the last hitting ss the astros had…if memory serves me….some of the older guys here…correct me if I’m wrong…was not he, in his time THE premiere offensive ss….and then he was beaned by mike torrez……c’mon guys….not another everitt!!!!!!!!
You win games by ending up with more runs than the other team. A heavy-hitting shortstop achieves that goal by putting runs on the board. A guy with a glove like Everett achieves that goal by keeping the other team from putting runs on the board. A run is a run, whether it’s one we score or one we keep off the board. Improving the defense up the middle would actually be the fastest way to improve the pitching staff.
by AstroAndy on Sep 7, 2009 9:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs




















