Wednesday Morning Astros, etc. Round Up
by Evan Hochschild on Jul 22, 2009 6:00 AM CDT
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Digging around the Baseball America website, I found a question from an Astros' fan about Bud Norris possibly being groomed a relief pitcher, and whether or not that was where his greatest value laid. Columit Matthew Eddy's response:
This is absolutely the reason Norris continues to start for Round Rock, regardless of the future role the Astros have pegged for him. In addition to sharpening his slider against live competition, starting every five days gives Norris the advantage of working on finer details during off-day bullpen sessions, without facing pressure of game situations.
We've heard talk like this for a few seasons now, but I tend to respect Baseball America a little more than most sources. How does everyone feel about Mr. Norris being a closer/set up man? Does he have more value at the back end of a bullpen or as a third starter-type?
Minor League Splits does a nice job of grouping together top minor leaguers, and detailing their previous night's performances. As much as I would like to become more of a fan of our minor league clubs, I find myself cheering mostly for the players who are considered likely to become Astros at some point: Jason Castro, Bud Norris, Polin Trinidad, the Lexington rotation, etc. This is a great way to keep track of our guys and our rivals' youngsters as well. For instance, Brian Bogusevic hit a home run on Monday night, something I probably wouldn't have discovered until a week after the fact, if not for this site.
Mr. Trinidad gets some props from the folks at FanGraphs. His AA performance helped him gain some notoriety:
Houston's minor league system is far from bursting with prospects, so the emergence of Trinidad over the past two seasons is welcomed. The southpaw does not have electric stuff, but he throws strikes and has some deception in his delivery. He has a good pitcher's frame, especially now that he's added some muscle, and projects as a No. 4 starter or middle reliever.
If he does end up being a middle reliever, I'd be pretty dissapointed. Especially considering we already have Alberto Arias in the pen, and apparently Bud Norris is on the way. That seems like quite a bit of pitching talent being used an inning at a time.
We may not like Cecil Cooper the manager very much, but the guy could play. The Hardball Times sums him up pretty well:
Before he became the much-maligned manager of the Houston Astros, Cooper was one fine hitter.
Cesar Cedeno was also mentioned, in the article. He ranks as the 21st best centerfielder of all time using their metrics.
As for an NL Central tid-bit:
The Cubs offense has been bad. Like, Houston Astros bad. They're still in it though, and it would shock me if a team with nine All Stars in 2008 didn't have a really strong second half. Kosuke Fukudome appears to be their leadoff man, but why not try Milton Bradley at the top?
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I tend to respect BA a bit more than most baseball news sources as well.
However.
We’ve been hearing for a long time that the pitch Bud Norris is working on is a change-up, not a slider. He’s already got two pitches that work very well for him…a FB and “slurving” breaking pitch. Although Matthew Eddy’s logic makes sense (starting gives regular work on the pitch he’s developing), it also makes sense that the reason he’s starting in the minors is because the Astros want him to start in the majors.
If Norris were being groomed for the bullpen, they probably would have called him up instead of Paronto when Sampson went down. He has already shown he’s mastered AAA hitters. The only reason to keep him down there is to work on skills that will make him valuable as a starter.
by AstroAndy on Jul 22, 2009 6:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I was always under the impression that the Astros’ organization was split on Norris, with some believing he would be best as a late inning reliever and others seeing him as a starter. Whichever path he ultimately takes, the Astros are doing the right think keeping him in the rotation, for the reasons cited by BA, as well as maintaining the starter option which would make him more valuable. Both Billy Wagner and Brad Lidge were used as starters throughout their major league careers. It would be interesting to know what those two guys would have done if they stayed on the starter path in the majors.
by clack on Jul 22, 2009 7:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
correction that should read “minor league careers” for Wagner and Lidge.
by clack on Jul 22, 2009 7:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs
after the game last night, Lou asked the GM to get him a “couple hitters” before the trade deadline. Listening to Chicago radio is always entertaining with Ozzie and Lou.
by ol Pete on Jul 22, 2009 8:37 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Either way
I’m looking forward to seeing Norris in an Astros uniform. I’d be inclined to try him as a starer first, see how that works out. Norris will likely get a September call-up though, probably as a reliever. Maybe he could be our secret rookie weapon, kind of like K-Rod that first year for the Angels.
by jmike on Jul 22, 2009 9:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
For him to be a starter
He’s going to need to work on his control, with the walks and the fact that he’s a strikeout pitcher he’s going to be throwing a lot of pitches just to get through 5 innings.
Scott Kazmir comes to mind as a comparison. Which isn’t a bad comparison, but Kazmir tends to throw a lot pitches in a game.
by timmy_ on Jul 22, 2009 10:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Russ Ortiz
would be another one you can compare him too. I’m only looking at minor league stats for these three players.
by timmy_ on Jul 22, 2009 10:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really like how Norris goes after hitters. He really good at working the ball inside and out. His record in Round Rock is not the best but this is not the whole story with Norris. He is a strikeout pitcher and his ERA is one of the best in the PCL. I saw Norris pitch with the Hooks last season and was very impressed with this command. Now he si proving himself in AAA. I know Norris will get his shot in Houston in September as a callup if not sooner. He would make a good late inning man I think. But I would love to see him start to see if he can hadle this too.
Another great arm in Round Rock is lefty Polin Trinidad. This guy can pitch in any situation. I watched him pitch in Corpus Christi as well and he has nasty stuff. I am glad to see Trinidad calledup to Round Rock. He had nothing else to prove with the Hooks.
Also the Astros got a great steal with the addition of Yorman Bazardo. He is kicking some butt in Round Rock too. Bazardo is turning heads thats for sure. He should get his shot in Houston soon too.
Astros pitching looks good for years to come. Lots of good arms in the minors and this is a good thing to see. Good luck to all these pitchers.
by Diehard Astros Fan on Jul 22, 2009 1:03 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Norris and Bazardo
are not on the 40-man. There are currently 39 spots occupied, so if both are to make it up, somebody will have to get bumped. Trinidad, on the other hand, is on the 40-man.
Just an FYI.
by littlevisigoth on Jul 22, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again
bullpens are arguably easy things to build and there’s generally a lot of turnover. If Valverde isn’t staying, maybe Norris would have to be the future closer of the Astros, but I think they need to give him a try on starting first. Maybe call him up in September to face some ML pitching out of the bullpen, regardless of whether the Astros are in a division race or not, and stretch him out during ST 2010 or something. He needs to be starting initially.
Remember to retire Fin's number, Mark.
by jonthefon on Jul 22, 2009 6:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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