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Before you go start making your Astros Playoff Ticket Reservations...



Before everyone goes all “Jonestown” and begins massive amounts of kool-aid drinking, I am here to set the record straight for all of those revving up the Astros bandwagon.  With two games left against the Nationals before the half-way point of the season, the Astros are presently at .500.  Regardless of how the last two games go, win or lose, let’s just call them an even .500 to keep it simple.  After going over their first-half schedule, the Astros have played against 14 teams with winning records and 14 teams with losing records.  We finished .500 after the dust settles.  This seems like pretty easy math so far for any of you Aggies in the studio audience. 

WOW!  Cooper has turned this franchise from “Tombstone” to “Return of the Living Dead” just like that!  What’s that?  Oh, there is a second half of the season to play?  This isn’t like minor league baseball where you get credit for the first half?  The records of those teams you asked?  We play against 17 TEAMS…ONE…SEVEN with winning records and only 8 TEAMS…ZERO…EIGHT with losing records.  Keeping my shoes on so as to not do too much math and using the first half formula for wins hat would put the Astros going .333 in the second half, which be somewhere in the 70s of total wins for the season.  Not while as sarcastic as I may be in this email, I do not even think the re-born Astros will do that bad.  However, I do think a .500 back-half of the schedule winning record is not impossible, which gets you nothing except a #8-#12 1st round draft pick in next year’s draft.

The pitching is trying to hold it together now that Roy has found his stuff right around trade deadline with Wandy doing his best poor-man’s “Greg Maddux” on the mound.  We will go into the All-Star break with no pitcher in double-digit wins while in the magical seasons of 2004 and 2005, we had in ’04 Clemens with 10 wins & in ‘05 Roy with 12 wins.  Granted it would appear that the batting is much better this season that in seasons past, at the end of the day, we are a .500 team regardless.  Case closed.

 

Trade Tejada to the AL East (Clay Bucholz would be nice) and Valverde to the AL West (Brandon Wood anyone?) and let’s focus on 2010!  Because unless the Rockets find a down-and-out center, the Astros need to steal any season-ticket holders they can! 

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wow

this might be the most agitated post I’ve ever read from clack.

Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jul 11, 2009 1:58 PM CDT up reply actions  

clack is one of the most even-handed, level-headed Astros commenters I’ve ever had the pleasure of reading. I think that bizarro-world trade talk is one of clack’s big peeves.

One of my personal peeves is when someone’s first major contribution is highly/unreasonably pessimistic about the team. It’s a fan site, not a rag-on-the-home-team site. I get enough of that stuff elsewhere on the internet. If I wanted more of it, I’d listen to talk radio.

by AstroAndy on Jul 11, 2009 3:13 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think all of the teams in the NL Central are so deeply flawed that it probably will come down to which teams are lucky.

This sums up how I feel about the rest of the season. I wouldn’t be surprised to see us make it to the playoffs only because I’m so surprised at how bad our division looks at the all-star break.

It helps if the hitter thinks you're a little crazy. - Nolan

by Trei Brundrett on Jul 11, 2009 3:17 PM CDT up reply actions  

sorry. but I got irritated by the tone, as in “I’m here to set the record straight,” etc. and took the tone as insulting to the people who regularly post here. eh. maybe the fan post wasn’t intended that way. I just noticed that the same exact comment was posted on richard justice’s blog about one hour earlier than this one. (I notice Justice had a snippy response about the Tejada trade idea too.) I just hope that the posts here don’t devolve to the level of the discourse of chron.com comments.

by clack on Jul 11, 2009 3:17 PM CDT reply actions  

Just so that no one else has to wade through the chron comments to find RJ's zinger:

[Clay Buchholz for Miguel Tejada? Not even Rummy and Cheney would try to sell that one.—Richard]

I agree about hoping that we keep CFB above the level of chron comments. I still find it amazing to find people over there who think Wandy is no better than a 5th starter, and will defend that POV vehemently with arguments that are 3 years out of date.

PECOTA suggests Ted Lilly as a better comp for Wandy than Greg Maddux, BTW…so far this season, They’ve given up the same number of hits in almost the same number of innings, but All-Star Lilly has issued fewer BB and All-Star-Snub Wandy has better K and HR numbers.

by AstroAndy on Jul 11, 2009 3:31 PM CDT up reply actions  

Wandy is a junkballer!

No better than a fifth starter is right. Trade him to the Brewers now!

(I keed, I keeeeed)

by ol Pete on Jul 12, 2009 12:20 AM CDT up reply actions  

only

if the Brewers send the Astros that Prince Fielder guy. Don’t worry, he’s just some fat first baseman who couldn’t steal a base to save his life.

Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jul 12, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions  

The difference between a “.500 team” and a “playoff team” this year could easily come down to a single lucky-timing 10 game streak.

The only way to tell which teams will be which is to let them play the games. I’ll be rooting for the Astros and hoping to see some exciting baseball along the way.

by AstroAndy on Jul 11, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions  

Agreed.

And that’s why I’ll be there, watching the games play out, same as I have since I was old enough to understand what baseball was. I always hope they’ll win a world series. That’s why I’m an Astros fan. Not a fairweather Yankee fan until the Red Sox started winning more.

by divinebovine on Jul 11, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions  

I think the thing that is most specious about his entire argument

Is that he basis his claim of we don’t have good enough pitching on the fact that we don’t have any starters with double digit win totals.

Aside from that, the distinction of playing above .500 teams and below .500 teams fails to take into account the degree to which a team is below or above .500, how the starting pitching match-ups will stack out, what’s the true talent level of the team (i.e. have they been vastly over performing with players who’s numbers are not in line with true talent, or have teams just simply gotten lucky).

Also, who has been praising Cecil Cooper, at least here? This team could be 10 games over .500 right now, but if Coop had still been managing the exact same way he has to date, I know that the vast majority of us here would definitely still be bashing Coop.

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by Stephen Higdon on Jul 11, 2009 4:31 PM CDT reply actions  

Is that he basis his claim of we don’t have good enough pitching on the fact that we don’t have any starters with double digit win totals.

Yeah, that’s an awful argument.

Really, the Astros have had pretty decent pitching so far. The team as a whole is scoring a 101 ERA+, and the only starters I think you can call legitimately “bad” have been Paulino (who is still figuring things out and, I think, having some poor luck) and Moehler (who is a bad pitcher). The only pitchers who have been truly awful were Geary and Backe, and both of them were jettisoned.

The problem is that:
1) The Astros are hitting into just a ton of double plays
2) Baserunning continues to be an issue
3) The bench is basically a collection of automatic outs
4) Kaz continues to get regular playing time.

Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.

by Only_A_Lad on Jul 11, 2009 4:46 PM CDT up reply actions  

1) won’t get fixed any time soon
2) see #1, unless something happens to Cecil Cooper, and even then I think a lot of this is on the players
3) hopefully the Chris Coste pickup will help out here. At the very least, we’ve gained 300 OPS points by replacing Kata with Coste. There may also be some trickle-down effect in that Q or Pudge can be used as a PH instead of Erstad (whose bat has been pretty cold) without worrying about whether we have a late-inning backup C
4) he’s been defensively better this year? I dunno if I can find a silver lining on Kazuo’s career worst season, except to say that he’s still got time to turn it around.
5) this is the scariest thing about the second half of the season

by AstroAndy on Jul 11, 2009 5:10 PM CDT up reply actions  

I gotta agree

This season is a lost cause and it would be criminal to make any move that sacrifices the future for a better shot today. I’m not saying hold a firesale, but to look for opportunities to take advantage of contending teams that need help now.

Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.

by Caradoc on Jul 11, 2009 9:47 PM CDT reply actions  

But is it a lost cause?

And what pieces are we going to move and for what return?

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by Stephen Higdon on Jul 11, 2009 11:36 PM CDT up reply actions  

Let's Wait And See

75 games to go is a LOT of games and anything can … and usually does … happpen. Like most of you, Im not inclined to call it a lost cause or read anything into anything. I plan to sit back and watch it and enjoy it and seem them do well (tonight aside.. ugh..)

One thing I will point out is that we did get to (or back to) .500 last year until over 100 games into the season… and obviously after the All Star break.. this year we did it before the break and after only 74…and now 76 (assuming we win tomorrow) … and we seem to always do better in the 2nd half …

Not that one season usually has to do with another, but I thought Id point that out..

Anyway, I plan to sit back and watch and enjoy the rest of the season and we’ll see what happens …

And I agree that Wandy is a better pitcher than this poster claims … of course, Ive always liked Wandy, but that’s just me …

by strosfannate on Jul 12, 2009 12:19 AM CDT reply actions  

ack

that shouldve been 86 games into the season, NOT 74 … and now 88, NOT 76 … my bad ….

by strosfannate on Jul 12, 2009 12:20 AM CDT reply actions  

for what it's worth...

Wade was interviewed on the pregame show three days ago, and he was fairly straightforward in talking about the trading deadline. If I got the gist of what he said::
(1) the Astros will not be selllers at the trading deadline; (2) the Astros will not be making any blockbuster acquisitions which require a lot of money or a lot of prospects; (3) Astros don’t want to make trades which hurt the farm system; (4) Wade will be more interested in trades like those he made last mid-season, which don’t require trading away players with ,much value; (5) like always, the Astros would consider trade proposals which help the team if the value exchange is favorable. Wade said that only a handful of teams are willing to take on any salary, which means that trading may be light this year.

by clack on Jul 12, 2009 9:05 AM CDT reply actions  

There's no time like the present....

First of all, Wandy throws high 80s/low 90s, which Maddux threw in his early days. He is more about placement than he is about over-powering. True, lots of pitchers are like that. However, Maddux gradually earned some “MJ” love from umpires over the years and the strikezone expanding making him a great pitcher as well as he mastered great placement. When Wandy gets that a little of that love, he is almost untouchable. However, because he isn’t overpowering, the minute he gets squeezed, forget about it. I love Wandy. I say “Poor Mans” because Wandy is still working on getting that respect & developing his placement. Greg Maddux was by no means an overnight success. I would take a poor-mans Wandy any day. However, Roy & Wandy a starting rotation do not make.

Second, Richard also emailed me privately and said he would take that trade in a minute. Would it happen? Probably not? However, you can’t tell me that the AL East won’t be in need of a bonafide bat to breakway from the pack come September. The trade deadline is what will make or break tight pennant races like that. When that happens, you have to sell high knowing that Tejada could be the difference-make on any one of those top three teams. And any serious playoff contender is always in need of bullpen depth. Keep the phones on standby not off the hook!

Third, our team is old. Ed Wade isn’t a fool. You don’t announce a fire-sale if you expect to get value. However, to keep Tejada and Valverde is fool-heartey. They are solid players who can help the Astros become better and deeper in 2010 by being traded. Some value is better than no value which is what they will be in a season or two when they are gone. Since Lee and Matzui are here to stay due to their contracts, we need to take the steps to make this team better and we do it this season. When better to do it than when attendance is below 28K? Drayton always loves butts in seats so when there aren’t as many, not as many will be affected.

Fourth, since everyone loved to gloss over the fact that I actually did some research on our team’s current record, can anyone actually say that our 5 pitchers presently are that good (all five) since we finished .500 against .500 average record teams in the first half? We are average, maybe even decent against teams like that. 2/3rds of our games on the back of the season are against teams with winning records. Wandy and Roy will hopefully get theirs on most days, but to expect 3-5 to stack up to those type of teams is not realistic. And that will be the returning to earth of the 2009 playoff high hopes.

Finally, St. Louis & Milwaukee are playing down to our level the first half vs. the Astros playing up. Things will level out in the second half. I am an Astros fan, but that doesn’t mean I can’t have a dissenting opinion. I just got tired of alot of fans writing, calling, or posting saying how the Astros have a legitimate shot at the playoffs at mid-season break. The truth is the 2009 Astros are an average team at best. Average won’t get us into the playoffs so why shoot ourselves in the foot by keeping players that can help us in trade value? Drayton has been a good owner who has let the team make trades for talent when needed (and sometimes when they weren’t). Every team has to make decisions like this every so often. 2009 is that time when we can make some of those tough decisions that can immediately impact our farm system & provide better depth when players like Castro, Norris, & Lo are called upon to help the Astros win in 2010 and 2011.

I look forward to more healthy debates!

by Robertpz on Jul 21, 2009 8:55 AM CDT reply actions  

correction...

poor man’s Maddux in first paragraph not poor man’s Wandy! Can’t even imagine what a poor man’s Wandy would be? Maybe Nieve? Sorry….

by Robertpz on Jul 21, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions  

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