Friday Morning Astros, etc. Round Up
by DyingQuail on Jun 19, 2009 6:00 AM CDT
in News
20 comments
I almost titled this post, "Cecil Cooper gets himself in hot water with the media, and then some other stuff." This will be formatted a little differently as we explore the Cecil Cooper v. Media debacle.
The story that started the snafu: JJO reports that the Coop never congratulated Ivan Rodriguez on his record breaking game and that the players were upset enough that it lead to Coop calling a meeting to apologize. Apparently this made Coop upset because he didn't think it was anyone outside of the clubhouse's business and was pretty terse with reporters after last night's game. JJO fired back with this blog post:
To me, that's a pretty scathing indictment for a beat writer to go public with and to make matters worse, Richard Justice also chimed on the state of the organization, using the Cooper incident as a spring board to say this:
Maybe it's me reading too much into it, but I feel like the bravado present in ripping on the Manager, GM, and owner in such a short span is both causally correlated. Perhaps this will be a harbinger of calls for Cecil Cooper's head in the ensuing weeks? Or am I reading too much into this?
Ok, to the normal stuff:
- An interesting note from the first JJO piece from Ed Wade:
- Michael Bourn got a nice feature at Astros.com, but this line frightened the bejesus out of me...I can already hear myself hurling expletives at my TV screen over the next three days:
- BPro checks in on the Astros transactions and fills it in with some commentary (subscription required). In typical BPro fashion, as of late, I'm left shaking my head at the regurgitated criticisms and overlooking/dismissing of the performances of some of our farm system guys.
- A different Clemens is making headlines.
- The Hardball Times checks in on whether NL pitcher's take it easy on the pitcher.
- Colin Wyers, at The Hardball Times, probes whether component ERA's (FIP, xFIP, and tRA) are good predictors of future ERA.
"We talked a lot about Bud when it became apparent we were going to DL (Mike) Hampton," Wade said via phone. "We discussed it."
"I've never seen Joe Mauer do it in person, but we're about to find out. He's good, though."
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its going to be tough this series
My 2 fav. players outside the stros players are Mauer and Morno…IMO they are the best 1-2 punch in the MLB (tough to argue with)…I even have a twins jersey tho with my name on the back (this is bcz i am actually a twin and my parents bought it for me and my twin bro for our b-day a while ago)
Im rooting for my stros but hope Mauer and Morno do kinda well (love ’em and on my fantasy team)
by EveryHoustonTeamRox! on Jun 19, 2009 8:47 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't worry
It’s just an exhibition game. It may count in the standings for some reason, but it doesn’t REALLY count.
by Xan on Jun 19, 2009 11:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to know what to make of all the stuff about Cooper.
Justice has been on Cooper’s case for a month or more; I had to wince a couple of weeks ago when he off-handedly suggested that Cooper just wants to collect a paycheck and doesn’t work hard enough. I’m not a Cooper booster—I reached a conclusion myself that he should not be the manager—but some of the statements by Justice and Ortiz leave me feeling that they may not be treating Cooper fairly.
However, I think this shows that a couple of negatives about Cooper are true:
—Cooper doesn’t handle the media well. Cooper won’t be the first manager to battle with the press, but it is part of his job to understand and deal with the press. Cooper has to understand that it is part of the press’ job to try and find inside information from the clubhouse. If he doesn’t like the leaks, he should blame someone else besides the media. It makes no sense to blame the media for doing something which is part of their job.
—Cooper’s relationship with his players is somewhere between “should be better” and “terrible.” If players are constantly leaking information which puts Cooper in a negative light, that tells you something is wrong. When you add on top of that some of the communications problems between Cooper and the pitching staff last year and this year, it’s not hard to conclude that “where there’s smoke, there’s fire.”
by clack on Jun 19, 2009 9:03 AM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Cooper’s relationship with his players is somewhere between "should be better" and "terrible."
My guess is it skews towards the latter.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Jun 19, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
we know that Oswalt pretty much hates him, and that at least one of the veterans (actually, I guess that’s everyone but some of the bullpen guys, Pence, Bourn, and Paulino) told everyone that they shouldn’t leak info to the media, no matter how much they all hate him (of course, this was leaked to the media). I’d say it’s pretty close to “absolutely terrible.”
Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Jun 19, 2009 1:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually really don’t care whether Coop talks to the media or not, except to praise guys when it’s appropriate for morale purposes and to step in and protect guys who need to deal with bad game on their own. When’s the last time anything Coop told JdJO anything that really mattered? I really think it’s only the newspaper guys who give a flying flip about whether they get a Coop Quote after every single game.
I think Coop is within his rights to be snippy and short with the reporter who published what goes on in what Coop thought was a closed-door meeting. And I would find it personally insulting if JdJO told me I needed to grow up. Reading that article, it seemed to me that JdJO is the one who should grow up and be more professional…the bulk of that article was retaliation at Coop for not being cooperative with him. Instead of just shrugging it off, JdJO instead made himself a focal point of the piece, which is a habit of his that I find grating.
Do I think Coop is a good manager? Not really. Do I think that JdJO has an unmitigated right to a friendly and open Coop? No. In fact, most coaches and managers of all kinds of teams that I see on TV really don’t like the press. It’s a fact of life. Deal with it JdJO.
by AstroAndy on Jun 19, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right that most managers don’t like the media part of their job. But it is a fact of life, and it’s part of their job. The Astros’ philosophy is that a significant part of the players’ job is cooperating with the press. (Recall the rookie Astros pitcher a few years ago who got chewed out by Biggio because he didn’t stay to talk to the media after a bad game, and ended up seeing his locker contents dumped in the shower.)
And McLane is a saavy enough businessman to insist on good media relations from his manager.
The other thing that Cooper must understand is that you never win by being hostile to the media. It won’t work. The media has the final word.
by clack on Jun 19, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the “But the media has NEVER, EVER treated him unfairly in Houston” was a strong statement, for the Houston media who has been reporting on the Houston Astros like they work for TMZ.
I for one scratch my head for some of Coops decisions, and I’d rather see him fired for those poor decisions, than because a player is whispering in a reporters ear. I didn’t necessarily like some of the people I’ve worked for, but I still went to work and did my job to the best of my ability.
by timmy_ on Jun 19, 2009 9:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I think the media has criticized him
But Coop has had it pretty good given all of his blunders thus far. And I’m with on on the last point.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Jun 19, 2009 12:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you're like me
my dad’s B-Day is on Monday. He always gets the combo Father’s Day/Birthday treatment, although I did send him two cards.
by littlevisigoth on Jun 19, 2009 11:36 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Two cards, one present
I imagine that when that first father’s day for him rolled around, he had to wince inside, as it was probably the first the time he realized he was going to get hosed on this for the rest of his life.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Jun 19, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
draft pick update
I know some people here check in on spikesnstars.com from time to time, but for those of you that don’t or aren’t following their draftee status thread, they do a really good job of tracking guys that have signed and whatnot. Sounds like we’ve got all but three of our picks through round 25, one of those being Mier who sounds like he’s going to sign, and one being Keuchel, who’s still pitching the College World Series. outstanding work by the FO locking down the vast majority of our top picks.
by littlevisigoth on Jun 19, 2009 1:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I've got a question:
In all the quotes I’ve seen about negotiations with Mier, Heck and Co. talk about meeting with his family. Now, I guess that’s pretty standard, but I’ve never seen anything about meeting with his agent. Does he even have one? I know the courts ruled that the NCAA can’t suspend anyone who gets an agent now, so it would seem to be smart to get one, right?
And, yes, the mere fact that the new FO has signed virtually all of its top picks in its drafts makes it infinitely better than the previous regime. I think we can all be grateful that the days of large portions of the draft class failing to sign are over.
Your friendly neighborhood Dreamshake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Jun 19, 2009 4:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen
I think we can all be grateful that the days of large portions of the draft class failing to sign are over.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Jun 19, 2009 4:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought agents for college baseball players...
have to be called “consultants” or something like that.
by clack on Jun 19, 2009 5:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
"advisor" is what I usually see
Although the recent Andy Oliver case against the NCAA may have changed all of that.
by AstroAndy on Jun 19, 2009 5:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coop
It’s disappointing as in the bits and pieces I’ve seen him over the years, he seems like a nice guy, but he seems wound too tight for the job. He reminds me somewhat of Yost. I wish I had a link of some of the audio tidbits of him getting salty with the media, usually for just asking a question about his strategy. One started with something like “if you had any baseball knowledge…” and another about his choice of starting pitcher, was along the lines of he woke up in the middle of the night to take a leak and it hit him then.
Tangentially, I know he’s got a lot of criticism for excessive bunting, but I’m hoping that there is a ton of it against the Twins. Its the perfect place for it.
by ol Pete on Jun 19, 2009 1:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Hey! I just realized something great!
We don’t have to play the Rangers again for the rest of the season!
by AstroAndy on Jun 19, 2009 3:40 PM CDT reply actions 3 recs
Haven't Read the BP Article..
but in general I feel that our dismal system two years ago, along with our failure to sign our top two picks, snowballed into a situation where the media feels comfortable prejudging everyone in our minors. Instead of saying “is this guy a good prospect, lets look at his tools, abilities, etc” its feels like they say “is this guy a good prospect, oh, the Astros system is terrible, of course he isn’t a good prospect if he’s in that system”.
by seanbergmanrules on Jun 19, 2009 5:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I know what you mean. I call that analysis-by-narrative, and it’s one reason why I’m not renewing my BP subscription. It’s not just us, either. They do it with a number of teams.
by AstroAndy on Jun 19, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 2.10.2010 at 5:43 AM CST)
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