Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Dan Marino Starting College For Developmentally Disabled

Reactions to the Astros' transactions, by the numbers

There are a few sources that I trust and value for their penchant/availability for sabermetric insight/resources.  It's no secret that TCB has a sabr-slant with a streak of Astros-homerism mixed in as well.  I imagine that such is the plight for an sabr-fan.  Not surprisingly, the Astros have taken a beating this week in the majority of the places I referenced, but there have been a few that shrugged their shoulders with relative indifference, possibly bordering on distanced approval.

In spite of my professed sabr-leanings, as I'm sure you've gathered, I'm prone to a more subjective gut reaction that I'll then cloud with number's based evidence, and roll from there.  Eventually, the emotions will die down, and I'll filter through all the statistical evidence (Usually clack will do that for me off the bat. Clack is like my sabr-fan sensei.). Consider this post a post-moretum recap from the various statistical voices who have either denounced or did not denounce (I really don't think anyone truly approved of any deal, just couldn't find a strong reason to disapprove).

I'll break the reactions down by three categories: The Indifferent, the bad, and the ugly, but move in reverse order. After the jump

Star-divide

The Ugly:

Per usual, the pundits at Fan Graphs didn't hesitate to lambast one of their favorite whipping boys: Ed Wade.  Dave Cameron called Brandon Lyon's signing the worst of the winter, citing luck inflated stats, mediocre FIP, and value that won't match his contract.  Below, Zach Levine takes him to task, and clack has already fleshed out the weaknesses of Cameron's argument here in a few places.  Matthew Carruth also decreed the Pedro Feliz signing as terrible, reasoning:

Addressing the hole at third base is a good idea for Houston, but you don’t address a hole by filling it with air. You already have plenty of air; why bother paying money to import premium air from Philadelphia?

Whether their arguments resonante as truth, depends on how much faith you want to put in the numbers that they cite. While I initially was on board with Lyon as being a miserable signing, I've backed off that stance since, and I never saw the Feliz deal in such a negative light.  There's a certain level of sabr-dogmatism that seems to filter through these two assessments of the Ed Wade's moves from the week and that's never a healthy approach.

It should be noted that Fan Graphs did approve of the Matt Lindstrom signing at the time.

The Bad:

Beyond the Box Score didn't exactly crucify Ed Wade like Cameron and Carruth did at Fan Graphs, but they were far from giving Ed Wade credit.  They were able to read positives into all three transactions of the week, but also a lot to cringe at, too.  While caustic of the Lyon signing, they approved of the Lindstrom deal, and could, in the end, see some positive in the Feliz signing.

Zach Levine crunched the numbers that Cameron cited for Lyon and came to a far more neutral assessment of Lyon's penchant to produce for the Astros.  Levine pretty much sees the potential for upside in all three of the Astros transactions the week, but can't find a lot to smile at, either.  Reading through his summary of the transaction, I glean a disapproval, but nowhere is their the vitriol that Fan Graphs ladled  on the deals:

The Astros have to hope that was some AL jitters or something and not some mistrust of his stuff as the clock struck 30. Carry that mediocre walk rate, which he'd never had before, and return that BABIP to average, and you've got yourself a very mediocre pitcher for a killer price....With Feliz's 35th birthday coming in April, Astros fans have to hope that steady OPS doesn't begin to decline and that he's still got it defensively, though I can't imagine the Astros will lean on him for 158 games like the Phillies did last year....As for Matt Lindstrom, that seems like a fine move, and people I trust who have seen the minor leaguers have told me the haven't given up anything they couldn't afford to, and I think the price is right and his production will level off from last year's bad ERA.

Levine kind of straddles both the Bad and the Indifferent, but I feel like he sits more in the Bad camp than the Indifferent.

The Indifferent:

Professor of economics, JC Bradbury is currently at work on a book about the Hot Stove.  He's already published on book on economics and baseball, too.  So when he renders an opinion on the matters of player valuation, my ear's perk up.  Bradbury, of all the sabr-slanted writers I've read, came the closest of any to giving a implicit seal of approval to Ed Wade's deals.

For both Lyon and Feliz, Bradbury believes the Astros will actually garner surplus value from the contracts.  For Lyon, he even stated that the deal seems right.  Not that it's a good deal, but that price tag fits the purchase. Feliz, the same thing.

Finally, Fan Graphs did like the Lindstrom signing, so I'll tally it in the Good.

***********

There are more links that could fit in the bad and the ugly categories, but they would just be repetitions of the same arguments—basically. We've already noted all the relevant projections for all the players that will soon be donning an Astros uniform here, and in all it looks like this week has resulted in a marginally improved baseball team (if you consider the fact that the Astros couldn't afford to hold onto Valverde and Tejada).  Does this mean Ed Wade did a good job this week? As fans, we seem to be leaning towards the indifferent to bad categories.  Considering that Ed Wade had a limited budget, little chance of gaining premium pieces, has upgraded the defense, and at least filled the bull pen with average to slightly above-average relievers for around $11.5 million in extra spending, I don't think the week was ugly.  

Whether it was bad or indifferent, though, is hard to say—at least by the numbers.  Arguments can be made for either cause, it just depends on how you want to spin it: As a sabr-slanted observer, or as a fan looking for hope in 2010.

Comment 24 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Look, there are legitimate criticisms to be made of Wade; I’ve criticized him, myself. But when I read some of these rants from the sabermetric community (the Cameron article as a good example), I get the impression that the vitriol and prejudgement toward Ed Wade biases the analysis.

Rob Neyer quoted Cameron’s blast at Wade, and then added his own thought that evidence of Wade’s incompetence is the 200-some run differential for the Astros teams over the last four years. Now I usually like Neyer. But check your facts on when Ed Wade began running the Astros if you are going to try the attack game. How can Ed Wade be held responsible for runs scored and allowed two years before he joined the organization?

The Fangraphs’ article which criticized the Feliz signing failed to note that Wade paid Feliz $1.2 million less than Fangraphs’ WAR says he is worth. Apparently the prevailing view is that Wade shouldn’t do anything to improve the team unless the move puts the team in contention for a division title.

That same criticism isn’t levied when saber-friendly GMs do what Wade is doing. Billy Bean signed/traded for veteran players last year even though the team wasn’t going anywhere with a rookie-laden pitching staff. Bean explained why: the veteran players give the young pitchers confidence and allow them to stay in games longer, particularly with their defense. I think Wade’s effort to improve the defense and provide veteran support will help the young pitchers (like Norris, Paulino, Gervacio, Arias) develop and improve.

by clack on Dec 11, 2009 12:36 PM CST reply actions  

The Fangraphs’ article which criticized the Feliz signing failed to note that Wade paid Feliz $1.2 million less than Fangraphs’ WAR says he is worth. Apparently the prevailing view is that Wade shouldn’t do anything to improve the team unless the move puts the team in contention for a division title.

I think the implication is more that Wade should be trading away players for prospects and rebuilding. The thing is this is just a routine response to any team that is old and mediocre and it doesn’t take into account the realities of the team’s situation. We are completely incapable of trading Lee and Matsui, for instance, and it would be difficult to trade Berkman and Oswalt, who are also considered franchise players and would enrage the fanbase if they were traded.

The Astros are pretty much stuck. I would like to see more focus on younger players instead of patching with veterans like Feliz, but I can see the argument for providing stability around the young players you have—the Astros can’t afford to become the Pirates.

by OremLK on Dec 11, 2009 12:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Its a routine response

It seems more for any team that a writer doesn’t like. Guys like Neyer probably look on the Astros as an irritating obligation.

As you say, reality isn’t a requirement. What I like is that they’ll trash a player at one point and then come back later and wonder why he hasn’t been flipped for a treasure trove.

And then there is the fetish for changing positions…

by ol Pete on Dec 12, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions  

You don't pay a player for what he has done

You are supposed to pay a player for what he will give you. If 2009 Pedro Feliz is what you get, then sure its an ok signing, but chances are 2010 Feliz won’t be as good.

by njd.aitken on Dec 12, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions  

Projection systems seem to think his offense will be slightly better than last year. ZIPS projects an OPS which is 1 points higher than last year, CHONE projects an OPS 10 points higher than last year, and Bill James projects an OPS 3 points higher.

by clack on Dec 12, 2009 5:09 PM CST up reply actions  

Picture comment

Did the Matsui contract not cause the same kind of reaction?

by Timothy De Block on Dec 11, 2009 7:10 PM CST reply actions  

I think so

I stayed postive on Matsui since Astros needed a second baseman who could hit and run.

I don’t see the need for Lyons.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 11, 2009 8:25 PM CST up reply actions  

My take on Lyon

At $5 million, he will be the fifh highest salary on the Astros (or thereabouts)

After paying for the big four (Lee, Berkman, Oswalt, Matsui), Astros have about $45 million budget to pay for 21 players. Lyon gets 11% of that budget. I cannot see how he will pitch enough in critical situations to be that valuable to the team

I can make a similar case about Feliz, especially if he is relegated to Blum’s or Johnson’s backup.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 11, 2009 10:31 PM CST up reply actions  

I’m pretty sure Feliz is intended to be the starting third baseman, so it will be the other way around. Geoff Blum ($1.5MM) will be his backup.

by OremLK on Dec 11, 2009 10:50 PM CST up reply actions  

We'll see

I assumed it is Feliz’s to lose (though Iread Johnson may win it in spring training – I had assumed Johnson was to be back in Round Rock, which may not be the case).

Based on Feliz’s age and steadily declining numbers, I can foresee Blum (or Johnson) starting more games during the season.

We’ll see.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 11, 2009 11:32 PM CST up reply actions  

The more pre-arbitration players who are starters or significant contributors (e.g., Norris, Paulino, Manzella, Arias), and make a lot less than their contribution warrants, the more feasible it is for the Astros to pay a set up man that percentage of the remaining salary amount. That is an advantage of using pre-arbitration players—it allows the team to spend more on free agents.

by clack on Dec 11, 2009 11:08 PM CST up reply actions  

You are correct . . . . . . . . but

right now I find it hard imagining myself saying in July, "I sure am glad Astros signed Lyon. He’s worth every penny of that five million dollars ($15 millon) "

On the other hand, I sure hope I will post those two sentences!

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 11, 2009 11:40 PM CST up reply actions  

P.S.

I am a week into grading exams and am overly critical of everytihng so don’t go by me.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Dec 11, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions  

Well done, sir

The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.

by Stephen Higdon on Dec 12, 2009 9:55 AM CST via mobile up reply actions  

On one of the BBTF threads a few days ago (I think it was a comment on a BP article praising the Nats’ signing of Pudge because of the intangibles he brings to the team), someone said that they had ended their subscription to Baseball Prospectus because the articles had become more about the authors’ subjective opinon rather than a stats-based assessment of players/events, etc. The commenter said that they had originally subscribed to BP because it was purely stats-based, and he goes to other sources (like ESPN writers) when he wants subjective analysis of baseball news. That opened up some other comments in the thread, about how the changing landscape of baseball sports web sites—with more competing web sites with advanced stats, and major corporation entering the market a BP competitors—may have led BP to change the business model and target audience somewhat.

by clack on Dec 12, 2009 12:47 PM CST up reply actions  

I believe it was Joe Posnanski

who wrote on his blog once that statistics can be manipulated in a variety of ways to prove a point. I can use one statistic to prove my point, yet someone who has the opposite opinion can use a statistic to prove their point. So I think it’s always good to take people’s analysis with a grain of salt. Essentially that is what the core of sabermetrics is about, to question and find a deeper understanding of baseball.

by Timothy De Block on Dec 14, 2009 8:54 AM CST up reply actions  

FWIW...Heyman calls Astros a "winner" at winter meetings....

SI’s Heyman has a list of winners and losers from the winter meetings, and puts the Astros on the winners list. I mostly mention this as a curiosity. Heyman says the Lyon signing was an overpay, but that the reliever makes the Astros “better.” He calls Feliz “reliable” and at a “very reasonable” price.

by clack on Dec 12, 2009 12:15 PM CST reply actions  

I tend to stay away from Heyman articles.

by Timothy De Block on Dec 14, 2009 8:55 AM CST up reply actions  

What I find really weird about this

(though I shouldn’t be, given that this is exactly what happened with Kepp and Drew Sutton last season), is that the Feliz signing has been criticized for blocking “one of the Astros’ best prospects” in Chris Johnson.

So the Astros obviously have a terrible farm system and virtually all of the upper-level players suck, but, at the same time, Chris Johnson is just waiting for a shot so he can become a real contributor to the team.

Now, I really don’t believe in Chris Johnson. He can’t walk, can’t hit for average, and I’ve heard so many conflicting reports about his defense that I don’t know what to believe. And if he can’t do those things in AAA, I don’t think he’ll be able to do them against major league pitchers. At best, at very best, Johnson translates his skills into being a Pedro Feliz -type player: low OBP, high slugging cornerman with good defense. But the track record for low-avg, low-bb% players is not a good one (for obvious reasons).

by Only_A_Lad on Dec 12, 2009 2:40 PM CST reply actions  

Yeah, I don’t get that criticism at all. I believe that Johnson still has a chance at being a productive big leaguer, but he needs work on his plate discipline first. Worst case he tears the cover off the ball at AAA and forces the team to call him up, in which case we could trade Feliz or Keppinger and use the other as a utility infielder/bat off bench. I don’t see this blocking Johnson. It’s not a multi-year deal.

by OremLK on Dec 12, 2009 2:52 PM CST up reply actions  

Frankly, I’m not worried about blocking Chris Johnson, mostly for the reasons suggested by Only_A_Lad, namely that a player with his profile is unlikely to succeed in the majors. I think Chris Johnson has a good arm, but the rest of his defense is a work in progress. TotalZone indicates that he is a below average defensive 3d baseman: -13 runs/150 at Corpus in 2008 and -2 runs/150 at Round Rock in 2009. If Chris Johnson turns things around with another season in Round Rock, that would be a welcome surprise, but I’m not counting on it.

by clack on Dec 12, 2009 4:32 PM CST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Crawfishboxes, the SBNation blog for the Houston Astros.

TCB Tweets!

    

Current Series

3 game series vs Rockies @ Minute Maid Park

Sat 04/07 6:05 PM CDT
Sun 04/08 1:05 PM CDT

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
Chicago 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Cincinnati 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Houston 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Milwaukee 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
Pittsburgh 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0
St. Louis 0 0 .000 0 Lost 0

(updated 2.9.2012 at 6:00 PM CST)


Managing Editors

Tcb_icon_small Timothy De Block

Old_school_dome_logo_small David Coleman

Editors

Nsapcs13_large_small clack

H_astros_small Subber10

Astrobritrs2_small AstroB

Small conroestro

Small native_astro

Small CRPerry13

Authors

Astros_logo121009_small OremLK

This-is-my-boom-stick_small allphilla

Th_houston-astros-logo-3_small Will Bonn