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The Astros hired Brad Arnsberg as the new pitching coach, fresh off a stay in Toronto. Fairly progressive organization he comes from, so maybe he'll have some progressive ideas about dealing with pitchers. Blum only signed for 1.5 mil, which seems reasonable for a bench player.

4 months ago Old_school_dome_logo_tiny David Coleman 35 comments 0 recs  | 

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Yeah, I’m just worried they’re planning to make Blum the starting third baseman again. Wouldn’t be surprising. He’s not a bad bench guy but $1.5MM is too much to spend on the bench with so many gaping holes to fill in more important positions. Should have signed a rule 5 guy, minor league free agent, or waiver claim for utility infielder and saved a million bucks to use for a real third baseman.

by OremLK on Oct 30, 2009 6:41 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I wonder what the Blum re-signing means. I’m afraid it means that he is the backstop in case Chris Johnson doesn’t succeed.

by clack on Oct 30, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He also seems a little redundant on the bench with Keppinger and Maysonet both available. It’s not like Blum is amazing at hitter righties or anything… he’s really about the same as Kepp in that regard.

by OremLK on Oct 30, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

*hitting righties.

by OremLK on Oct 30, 2009 6:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Blue Jays at least have had a very good pitching staffs. (Helps if you have Roy Halliday.)

Here is a YouTube video by Arnsberg called “Pitching 101.” Nothing really exciting…just describes various pitching grips…but lets you see Arnsberg communicate.

by clack on Oct 30, 2009 6:54 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Either JJO's writing is getting even worse or he dislikes Al Pedrigue

Here’s the lead sentence in his article:

Al Pedrique, one of 10 candidates interviewed for the Astros’ managerial position that Manny Acta declined before Brad Mills beat out Dave Clark for the post, has become Mills’ bench coach.

Then later
Pedrique has been a key figure of the Astros’ player development program, which over the last few years has been rated among the worst in baseball

and JJO reminds us Al Pedrigue was a Tim Purpura hire:

general manager Tim Purpura brought Pedrique in as a special assistant in November 2004 and then promoted him to director of Latin American operations

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 30, 2009 7:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

JdJO's had an axe to grind the last few months

His previous targets were Tal Smith and Ed Wade, but Drayton gave them votes of confidence yesterday, so maybe he’s set his sights on someone lower on the food chain.

He’s probably still a little ticked off that yesterday Alyson Footer called him incompetent on her twitter feed (since removed), and that Richard Justice basically responded to one of JdJO’s tantrum posts by saying:

[A]nyone that tries to tell you this mess should be laid at the feet of Tal Smith and Ed Wade either is clueless or has an agenda.

by AstroAndy on Oct 30, 2009 7:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know, I have really enjoyed seeing the reporting Footer has done since moving up to a job with the Astros, but it still bothers me a little. She’s not a journalist in the strict sense anymore, she’s a team employee. If she criticizes JJO, does that mean the organization is upset with him, or that the journalist in her is bothered by him?

I’m sure everything is on the up and up, but it’s always in the back of my mind when I read her stuff.

by David Coleman on Oct 30, 2009 9:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The way she writes I imagine it’s her opinion and not the organizations. In her tweets during games she’s been critical of in game moves.

by timmy_ on Oct 30, 2009 11:19 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed. How is Pedrique to blame for not signing draft picks? Or losing picks for signing players like Woody Williams! JJO seems to have turned against everyone except for Jose Cruz.

Hopefully the signing of Blum means the Astros are focused on pitching and defense. Blum may be supar hitter, but at least he’s a plus defender. Now if only the team could add a #3 starter…

by jmike on Oct 31, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I noticed all of those sentences from JJO’s article. The first sentence is so incomprehensible that I initially figured it was incompetence. But then I read on to the sentence combining Pedrique’s player development work with the “news” that the Astros have terrible player development. Yeah, that is a cheap shot. And, yes, I noticed the more subtle dig with the Pupura connection. Ortiz seems to be more or less out of control right now. Ortiz in the past has blamed Pedrique for the collapse of the Astros’ Venezuelan academy.

by clack on Oct 30, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Toronto fans love Brad Arnsberg (or at least three of them do)

Here’s what Blue Jays fans posted:

Why… Why do you let such an excellent pitching coach leave, just to keep Cito… This is AA`s first big mistake, let`s hope it`s his last too…

by Lanky07 on Oct 30, 2009 6:41 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
 tuff to let the best pitching coach in the mlb to leave over cito.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 30, 2009 7:31 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting comment to this article, by the way:

Story is that Arnsberg and Brad Mills are old friends, and that Mills called and asked for permission to offer him the job. So, it appears that the sequence was Arnsberg was going, so Cito might as well stay.

by clack on Oct 31, 2009 10:11 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some more/different POVs on Arnsberg

The short of it is that he’s a good pitching coach and is able to get mediocre players to overperform, but that he may be prone to harming young arms.

From Rotoworld:

If the Astros had many young pitchers worth worrying about, we’d be more critical of the Arnsberg hiring. His track record when it comes to injuries, both in Florida and Toronto, is horrible. Pitchers seem to like him, though, and the Astros don’t have many talented young arms to burn out.

From the RealGM comment boards:


ARNSBERG had success with reclamation projects. And apparently turned Romero from a basket case into Wheelbarrow Balls in about two weeks of work in Spring Training.
-
Arnsberg was almost a gift and a curse. The pitching on this team drastically improved when he came on board but so did the number of pitchers going under the knife. That reputation followed him from Florida to Toronto and nothing really changed. Whether it is Arnsberg’s fault or just bad luck is another story, but I don’t recall another time when so many young starters went under the knife in a 3-4 year span.

From The Toronto Star:

He is an excellent instructor, but it would have been impossible for Gaston and Arnsberg to co-exist for another year. The two were at the heart of the clubhouse disconnect with the pitchers. Arnsberg treats his pitchers like family. Whenever one was slighted in role reduction or public criticism, Arnsberg sided with the player. That became so huge an issue that by the end of the year the pitching staff had become its own entity.

From FoxSports:

You need to know this about Arnsberg: There are those in the game who criticized his handling of pitchers first in Montreal and then Florida, but the freakish nature of some of the Blue Jays’ injuries (Downs hurt a toe hitting and running the bases in an interleague game, Ricky Romero hurt himself sneezing, for god’s sake) are particularly grating to him. It leaves him helpless, and Arnsberg does not do helpless well.

by AstroAndy on Oct 31, 2009 1:19 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Plus, it’s not technically the pitching coach’s job to decide a young pitcher’s innings. If you look at the more proactive organizations like the Yankees and Red Sox, it’s the GM and front office that sets the limits on innings and such. I’m not sure Wade whether Wade sets that same tone, but it may be picking at nits to criticize Arnsberg too much. Something to keep in mind though…

by David Coleman on Oct 31, 2009 2:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

that was my first thought too...

I mean, I guess a pitching coach could overwork someone in their bullpen sessions or something? But it seems like overuse of a pitcher falls on others.

by BTastros on Oct 31, 2009 2:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's who ever you want to be the scapegoat

Who was at fault for the bullpen this year?

by timmy_ on Oct 31, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you saying Cooper didn’t mishandle the bullpen?

by BTastros on Oct 31, 2009 10:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m saying you throw blame on the short comings of the person you want to.

Dewey some how didn’t shoulder any of the blame for the injuries in the bullpen.

by timmy_ on Nov 1, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s because we didn’t know what advice Dewey may have given Cooper, but we do hold the manager ultimately responsible for decisions like pitch counts, when to replace pitchers in the game, etc. For the in-game pitcher usage decisions, all the pitching coach can do is give advice, and, in some cases, that may even be a subject on which the manager doesn’t want advice.

Then again, Cooper did try to deflect the blame to Dewey Robinson when he required Oswalt to pitch injured in 08…recall that Oswalt told Dewey he was injured and Cooper said he didn’t recall Dewey telling him that.

by clack on Nov 1, 2009 5:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m just not following. You make it sound like people are being inconsistent or arbitrary in assigning blame about mishandling pitchers.

In all cases, I’m saying that the blame for mishandling the pitching staff in games should rest on the manager’s shoulders. That’s all I said above. Arnsberg was a pitching coach, not a manager. And Cooper was a manager, not a pitching coach.

by BTastros on Nov 1, 2009 4:33 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I’m throwing an optimistic spin on what’s being said about Arnsberg. A lot of people will blame the man going out for certain problems. Arnsberg is on his way out let’s blame him for the pitchers short comings.

by timmy_ on Nov 1, 2009 6:42 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

That is worrisome

We are hanging some of our hopes on some young pitchers next year. Our rotation could include both Bud Norris and Felipe Paulino who are both relatively young with histories of significant injuries. Our bullpen also has some young arms with gervacio and arias. and theres the wesley wright project.

But this could cause a resurgence from oswalt to produce a career year and another dominant year from wandy

by Subber10 on Oct 31, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From all that I’ve read so far, I haven’t seen that any of the criticism of Arnsberg had to do with pitch counts. Generally, it is of the “coincidence” variety, by that I mean the number of pitchers who had injuries under his watch. That’s why most of the articles wonder if it’s just bad luck. The names which get the most attention in Toronto, and around the league, are B.J. Ryan and A.J. Burnett, for whom the Blue Jays paid top dollar. The injuries to both those pitchers are not surprising; at the time they were free agents, they appeared to be pitchers waiting for an injury to happen. That appears to be more a front office problem for paying too much for pitchers with known arm problems.

As for young pitchers, some of the “success stories” are instances where very young pitchers were fast tracked to the majors by Toronto (e.g., going from A or AA level to the majors) and Arnsberg was credited with getting them to pitch better than they had ever pitched at lower levels. One could speculate that a team will have a high rate of injuries whenever they push young pitchers to the majors too quickly— not something for which I would blame the pitching coach. Without more specifics as to what Arnsberg did or didn’t do, it’s hard to lay the blame on him, versus the front office or the manager.

by clack on Oct 31, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some other articles...

Toronto Star (Oct. 5, 09) “pressing issues for new jays’ manager”

The toughest decision will be with pitching coach Brad Arnsberg, whose special, paternal relationship with his pitchers has made him a cult leader. The fact is, if Roy Halladay is on the way out, Arnsberg may also want out of the final year of his contract. He would be much in demand.

Toronto National Post “Gaston’s uneasy relationship with Arnsberg” (Oct. 31, 2009):

Arnsberg had a close personal and professional relationship with his pitching staff, especially Roy (Doc) Halladay. He had also earned abiding respect from previous skipper John Gibbons.

But Arnberg and Gaston never had the same rapport. Even Houston general manager Ed Wade seemed to acknowledge the problem when he announced that Arnsberg had come to work for new manager Brad Mills.

“We were really excited when we found out [Arnsberg] was available,” Wade told mlb.com . “There were some unresolved issues, and [the Jays] gave him a chance to go out and look around, and he very quickly moved up to the top of our list.”

Gaston and Arnsberg were rarely seen in conversation, even in the dugout during games. In an ambiguous comment Saturday, Gaston said Arnsberg “would pretty much sit down with Doc most of the time.”

Here is a very complimentary article from about midway through Arnsberg’s tenure at Toronto, (“The Arnsberg Influence”) and some quotes:

"He’s so prepared," Roy Halladay said. "He’s one of the guys, more like a teammate. Look at his track record with all the young arms."
"His best attribute is that he’s really good at coming up with scouting reports," Jason Frasor said. "He sits in front of that computer for hours, breaking hitters down to figure out the best way for our pitchers to (exploit) weaknesses."

    "He’s very adaptive," Tallet said. "He can adjust to each pitcher. If we were unreceptive the results wouldn’t be as good."
"These young guys are like his kids, he gives them the best information possible," Barajas said. "His scouting reports on opposing hitters are unbelievable and he helps with in-game adjustments as well."
    "The best thing he did was fix Romero," Barajas said. "I left Dunedin for the World Baseball Classic and saw a completely different pitcher when I came back. In that short span I was away for the WBC, Ricky became a confident guy. Brad told me it took one conversation to fix a mechanical flaw.
    "Ricky’s not here right now, but there’s no reason (performance-wise) that’s he’s not."

Some much older articles from the Marlins era are harder to link because they aren’t fully archived. Clearly, Arnsberg had a bad split up with the Marlins, with the front office blaming him for A.J. Burnett’s need for TJ surgery in 2003. Loria, the owner, and Beinfest, the GM, paid a midnight visit to Arnsberg’s condo to fire him in what is described as a “tumultuous” meeting. Both sides to the meeting described each other as “unprofessional.” Arnsberg is later quoted as saying he knew the firing was more personal than performance related. Burnett is quoted from that period as defending Arnsberg and saying that Arnsberg isn’t to blame for the injury; Burnett instead blames the front office…apparently because he thinks the front office concealed information about his bone spurs. This firing could have ended Arnsberg’s career, but he was promoted by Ricciarelli to pitching coach, knowing his tremendous relationships with Matt Clement and A.J. Burnett, whom the Blue Jays wanted to sign in free agency.

One reaction I have is that Arnsberg would have been a bad fit with Cecil Cooper. On the other hand, his friendship with Mills could lead to a strong relationship in Houston like he had with Gibbons in Toronto. Reading about the legions of admirers among his pitchers, one has to think that Roy Oswalt will love this move.

by clack on Oct 31, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Roy won't be the only happy one.

McTaggart tweeted earlier that Hawkins wanted to see who was managing before making a decision about whether to re-sign with Houston. This move seems likely to help that re-signing happen.

by AstroAndy on Oct 31, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

From what I've read about Mills and Arnsberg

they are twin brothers from different mothers, two peas in a pod, or Tweedledee and Tweedledum.

They’ll fit together like ham and eggs, Willie and Waylon, or the Super Bowl and commercials.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 31, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

He may not being put in the best situation.

Last not forgot that Bud Norris had a significant jump in his pitch count last year, if something were to happen to the number one young pitcher he may not get fair treatment. While most of us here will recognize that it would be the organizations fault. The perception would be that it’s Arnsberg’s fault since he had issues in Toronto and Florida.

by timmy_ on Nov 2, 2009 7:31 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

that’s true. but presumably he knows the risk…it’s probably a risk that he takes whereever he goes, since most pitching staffs will have their potential injury candidates going into this season. But, you’re right that he’s got some seemingly fragile young starters, plus a bullpen which was beat to a pulp by overuse, which could show the symptoms of injury next year, no matter whom the pitching coach is.

by clack on Nov 2, 2009 10:20 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

could roy follow arnsberg?

i doubt it but wouldnt it be great to have doc follow his pitching coach to houston?

its not only something to consider this year via trade, but next year when he is out in the free agent market we have a pitching coach that he swears by …. that has to count for something if we are making a push for him

by strosfan31 on Nov 2, 2009 1:10 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

He’s going to be expensive either way, even with having his former pitching coach.

by timmy_ on Nov 2, 2009 7:26 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

We’d be burning down the farm if we traded for him. We’d be talking about Castro, Norris, Paulino, and Lo, and maybe some lower level prospects too.

That would be a really stupid move, in my opinion. It’s the kind of move that makes sense for a surefire contender with a stocked farm system. We’re neither of those things, and we won’t have the depth to consider such trades for at least a couple more years.

by OremLK on Nov 2, 2009 10:11 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

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