And then there were two: Acta hired by the tribe
by DyingQuail on Oct 25, 2009 3:19 PM CDT
in News
31 comments
It's official. Garner and Mills are now the two remaining candidates of the Astros managerial search, and possibly just Mills if you believe the Boston Globe report below. Manny Acta will be managing in Clevland until at least 2012.
With this, I find myself pretty much ambivalent about what the Astros' brass does for the remainder of this search. It looks like in the end, the Astros still aren't ready to go ahead and try to do something outside convention. The two candidates left are the two more experienced of the bunch.
If it's Garner they go with: fine. Mills: fine. I'd prefer Mills because I really don't like the signaling that goes along with Garner, but screw it—none of this is up to us to me. In my heart of hearts, it felt like Acta was the one for the job: young, seemingly innovative, and a great report with the franchise, but who knows what the actual interview process was like.
If these scattered thoughts are any indication of my state, you know it's frazzled by this development.
This, this just kills me:
We couldn't go three years on Acta? We went two on Coop with no real reason and then gave him an extension in April. This is absolutely ridiculous.
0 recs |
31 comments
|
Email
Print
Comments
Failing to get the manager he targeted because he won’t go another year on the contract is so much like Drayton McLane.
On the other hand, maybe Mills gets the job and turns out to be a great manager who knows? I wouldn’t be surprised if another candidate from the previous ten candidates is added to the finalists.
by clack on Oct 25, 2009 3:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't doubt Mills could/would/will be good
I now just really, really hope it’s him.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Oct 25, 2009 5:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Via Footer/Twitter
Astros offered a 2 yr contract with a 1 yr option. Indians a 3 yr with a 1 yr option.No dollar amount on that though.
That said, I’m not sold on Acta. So I’m not disappointed. I am happy with the finalists so far, so either Garner or Mills I would be happy with.
by entropic soul on Oct 25, 2009 3:38 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I wish Manny the best (unless he’s up against Houston). The decision makes a lot of sense if you look at it from his perspective:
- He’s 40 years old and will have to support his family for a lot of years down the road
- Houston doesn’t exactly have a good recent track record of keeping managers around for a much longer than the 3 year contract he got from the Indians…even the good managers.
- He lost his first job because he didn’t have the talent on the field, but people were willing to look past that…if he put in two years in Houston and loses his job because the front office is not putting the talent on the field, it’s not exactly clear that people would be able to look past the results with his second team.
- The Indians have more young talent in their pipeline and can prove himself much sooner than he could with the currently rebuilding/reloading Astros.
As a purely economic decision, Manny probably made the right one, even if the Astros matched the terms of the Indians’ deal.
I’m not very familiar with managerial contracts…how often do young managers get 3 year + option contracts?
by AstroAndy on Oct 25, 2009 3:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chip Bailey at the Chronicle’s fanblog made some good points. He points out that the Astros need to be looking at a long term plan with more stability and if they can’t offer a 3 year contract to whomever is their choice, then there is a problem. He would be disappointed if the Astros only offer a 2 year contractt to Garner, Mills, or whomever, because the manager will managing to keep his job in his first year.
by clack on Oct 25, 2009 3:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bailey makes another good point
That the Astros might have to do some damage control with the remaining candidates who now know they were the second choice candidate.
by AstroAndy on Oct 25, 2009 4:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
I’ve been out running errands and the entire time I’ve just been thinking of how poorly this has been handled.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Oct 25, 2009 5:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree completely
He had to take care of himself and his family. It just makes sense for him to take the Indians deal.
The Crawfishboxes
A good friend of mine used to say, "This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains." Think about that for a while.
by DyingQuail on Oct 25, 2009 5:46 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah I would do the same if I was Manny
but the Astros are just pitiful. I am once again embarrassed by Drayton
by Astrosws20 on Oct 25, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the thread on Acta at BBTF, Maury Brown, who writes the “Business of Baseball” blog, and seems to have good contacts in the industry, posted a comment that he is “hearing” that Garner will likely get the job.
I hope that’s not the case. because I think it may keep the team from moving forward. I won’t be totally upset with a Garner hiring, but I think it becomes a real missed opportunity for the organization to set a new tone. Hiring Garner, to me, is like pretending that we are just continuing with the same teams of 04 and 05.
by clack on Oct 25, 2009 3:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Garner
I don’t get it. As far as I can tell, over the past several weeks, everybody here who’s been against hiring Garner basically agrees he was a fine manager. But they’re against it because it “sends bad signals”, or prevents the team from “moving forward”, or “sets the wrong tone”.
Exactly what signals are these and what do they do? What tone would be set, what’s wrong with it, and what in blazes is “tone” in terms of wins anyway? Is there any actual, real, tangible reason to not hire Garner?
by Xan on Oct 25, 2009 10:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be happy with Garner coming back
I wasn’t sold on Acta being “the one”. He seems like a good guy and I would have been happy to have him as manager, but I don’t think he’s heads and shoulders above Garner and Mills. Garner and Mills are both fine candidates. I know a lot of people around here wanted Acta because he’s a stats guy, brings a fresh approach and is open minded.. and those are all good things, which is why I would have been happy with him being selected. But those things don’t mean he’s going to get results. I mean, just look at the Nats, they didn’t get any better under his management. You can attribute that to many things, but we should take into account that he didn’t make much of a difference.
Garner, on the other hand, has gotten results. And you have to give him credit for that. And no, that doesn’t make him better than Acta, but each of them have their positives and negatives.Acta may have an interesting approach, but he’s lacking results for now. You could say that Garner’s results came from having excellent pitching and defense, but if you are going to argue that Acta was given a bad team and that shouldn’t count against him, you can’t also argue that Garner was given a good team and that shouldn’t count for him. In essence, you can’t have it both ways.
What we can see from Garner, because we have watched him manage, is that although he may make some bone headed moves, he does provide cohesion. and that’s something that is severely lacking right now. Its also something I didn’t get from Acta, from what I’ve read about him. I don’t know about you, but I hated to see them team lose, and then read about in-fighting and Coop didn’t do a damn thing about it.
Another thing I don’t quite understand, is some people keep saying how embarrassed they would be because we rehired a manager we fired 2 years ago. So what? Who gives a shit? Are you going up to work everyday and someone is teasing you that the Astros are thinking about rehiring Garner? Is the East Coast Sports Network making you feel bad? I don’t get it.
I also don’t understand the idea that someone should be upset that he wasn’t the first choice. Are these ego driven men? I don’t know Mills, but Garner doesn’t strike me as such. If I’m Garner and I heard Acta was going to get the job, but Acta takes a job somewhere else… I’m not insulted.. I’m happy! That means I might get the job now.
Mills, Acta, Garner. They all seem like fine choices, what need is good players and someone who can motivate them.I’m more interested in who we re going to put on the field, not who we are going to put in the dugout.
by entropic soul on Oct 26, 2009 3:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Garner is fine for a good veteran team. But if we will be moving toward a younger team in the future, is he the right guy? Garner was good at sparking a veteran team which included pitchers like Pettitte and Clemens, who don’t need to be taught anything. But I don’t think Garner did a good job coaching the 07 team; it seemed to me that he let his frustration get the best of him that season. I think next year’s team will be closer to the 07 team than the 05 team. I think Garner was well matched for those 04 – 06 teams. Garner had tough years in Milwaukee and Detroit, but then again he was lacking talent on those teams. I don’t think Garner will be a terrible manager, but I think he will be more like a caretaker manager. And I’m not sure he’s the right guy to mold a different team for the future.
by clack on Oct 26, 2009 7:00 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we hire Garner I will bury my head in the sand like an ostrich or whatever
I have no problem rehiring a manage but NOT 2 TO 3 YEARS LATER! I’m embarrassed enough that he’s a finalist. If he gets hired then I have no faith in my Stros!
by Astrosws20 on Oct 25, 2009 6:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Justice calls it a "very bad day for the Astros" and roasts McLane.
Justice says that the “baseball people” had decided that Acta is the right. Tal Smith and Ed Wade tried to convince McLane to add a third year to the Acta offer, but McLane drew a line in the sand.
This is the first time McLane has ever attempted to hire a manager or general manager that was being sought by other clubs, and he wouldn’t get into a bidding war….Why he decided to draw the line at three years is absolutely amazing considering the millions he has thrown at has-beens Mike Hampton, Russ Ortiz, etc. It’s a funny time to get religion. I wish he’d taken a similar tough line when negotiations began with Carlos Lee, but that’s another story.
by clack on Oct 25, 2009 7:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Farewell
Looks like I’ll be moving onto the Indians blog! It was nice getting to know you all….
On a more serious note: $%@ )$(@ *#)($)@ (#$()#@$% @)#)$%# %$)(()($#()( )#% _# (_ $(#% $() $(_( (#!$* # __$# )%$((_ $!#%(_ *%$(*)$!
by timmy_ on Oct 25, 2009 7:31 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
okay i'm better
I think i’m going to go cry in my pillow.
by timmy_ on Oct 25, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s what happens when you bash your head into the number keys while holding shift
by timmy_ on Oct 25, 2009 8:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing that really kills me about this is how similar it is to the Randy Johnson situation in the 1998 offseason. Johnson wanted a fourth year guaranteed in his contract. McLane only wanted to give him three years, so Johnson went home to Arizona. (I realize the D’Backs had other factors in their favor, but McLane’s resistance to add extra years was probably the most damning move).
I do have one problem with Acta’s decision and that’s the Cleveland organization. Sure, they have young talent. Sure, they have a smart GM and front office people. The only thing that’d really concern me is they don’t spend money. They’re a classic small market team. That’s what necessitated the Cliff Lee and C.C. Sabathia trades and that’s what may force them to trade Sizemore down the road. It’s tough to keep a talent pipeline going year after year, especially if you can’t spend the money to retain the guys that hit it big.
Acta wanted job security? Why go to a team that won’t spend and will HAVE to cycle through rebuilding? I once read a book about Shapiro’s management style and how he used out-of-the-box thinking, and he talked extensively about why Wedge was the perfect manager for him. Did that change? What changed from two years ago when they were in the ALCS? Oh, that’s right, they stopped winning. I’m not saying the Astros are better poised to win now, but with the money Drayton can spend, it appears that they could withstand that rebuilding cycle that is inevitable in Cleveland.
Yes, I am a bit bitter, but I still think it’s a valid point. I’ll save my thoughts on what this says about the Astros organization for another time…
by David Coleman on Oct 25, 2009 10:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, the length of the contract itself is income security. The very nature of managing and the risk of getting fired when teams lose is a good reason to seek as long a contract as possible. I think a prospective manager would find a longer contract even more compelling in both the Indians’ and Astros’ situations because they are facing rebuilding. Acta’s quotes about the team and manager “growing together” seems to indicate that the Indians’ organization realizes that it isn’t in a “win now” mode. They wanted someone to develop a young team into an eventual winner.
by clack on Oct 26, 2009 7:12 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pissed.
Not sure what else to say. This is exceedingly disappointing. I was rooting for Acta from the start, and when it started to look like it would actually happen, I was getting pretty excited.
Damn.
by BTastros on Oct 25, 2009 11:07 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm confused
Seriously, why was this guy even considered? Has anyone been paying attention to him? Had he been selected I would have been skipping any Astros games in the near future. He seriously believed that small ball was “antiquated”, the Astros don’t have the raw talent to win by smashing home runs every game. They are going to have to manufacture them to have a shot at a playoff run in the next couple of years.
That being said, I’m pulling for Garner, although I still wonder why he would want to come back, after the way they treated him the first time. Seriously, what did Garner do to get himself fired the last time? As far as I can tell, he did NOTHING. He took the Astros to two consecutive post-season appearances and to a World Series, he had a slight slip, although not too much farther from where he was the year before and they give him the slip? Does McLane have ADD or something?
by PhilipSnyder on Oct 25, 2009 11:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Small ball IS antiquated (or more properly has never been a good gameplan) if you’re talking about sacrifice bunts and generally making outs to try and score runs.
Of course that’s just a general statement—stealing bases and taking walks will always be useful, if you want to count those as part of small ball.
Cooper tried to play small ball the whole season and look how well all of his stupid sacrifice strategies worked.
by OremLK on Oct 25, 2009 11:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Astros don’t have the personnel to play small ball, in terms of steals, up and down the lineup. Only two players are really good base stealers, Bourn and Matsui. Most of the remainder of the lineup, including Pence, will cost the teams baserunners, runs, and wins if they try to regularly steal bases.
by clack on Oct 26, 2009 6:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true. I wonder what Tommy Manzella will bring in terms of stolen bases. Supposedly he’s pretty quick, but he didn’t steal very often. His success rate was pretty good though.
by OremLK on Oct 26, 2009 7:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Manzella is very fast. He probably has average speed for an infielder. I think he is faster than guys like Loretta and Tejada, but not as fast as Adam Everett. My impression is that Maysonet is faster than Manzella. Of course, speed isn’t everything on stolen bases, but I would guess that Manzella’s lack of really good speed is a downside to his offense.
by clack on Oct 26, 2009 7:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seriously believed that small ball was "antiquated"
You’re right. That’s just a silly statement. As I was saying yesterday, “antiquated” implies that at some point small ball was a good strategy.
All rational analysis on baseball shows that if there’s one general rule on strategy, then it’s “Don’t Waste Outs.” That’s exactly what “small ball” does. In most situations, bunting is just bad strategy. In virtually all situations, the hit-and-run play is just bad strategy. Base-stealing is fine, and what designates “efficient” changes with era and environment, but Coop sure as hell wasn’t doing it effectively.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Oct 26, 2009 9:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wasnt sold on acta being the manager of the astros and he definitely wasnt the first one i wanted them to give the job to but this is embarrassing the way this ordeal has turned out
now we’re are basically going back to the other candidates and saying well you werent the guy we wanted but we are going to give you a chance anyway, by the way we’re only giving you a two year deal so you better get off to a fast start
i wish the stros would re-conduct their search in sorts and keep mills and garner in consideration, bring back bogar and mackanin, to see if their your “other guy that is going to turn out to be the guy”, and bring in bobby valentine, don mattingley and erick wedge to consider as the next manager
if they re vamp there search i dont think it would look as bad, as what would perceived to be as just “settling” for garner and mills
the only problem with this is that it is going to take you past the wednesday deadline that you wanted to have your manager selected by
by strosfan31 on Oct 26, 2009 2:25 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
ASTROS MANAGER
hire Garner back ,,he shouldnt have been fired the first time,,,,im glad acta didnt take the job,,,didnt want his loser a__ anyways. suck it up and hire garner back drayton ,you boo booed when you fired him….HIRE GARNER BACK
by ct c on Oct 26, 2009 5:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
THE CRAWFISH BOXES GETS SOCIAL
NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 2.8.2010 at 11:43 PM CST)
Certain photos copyright © 2010 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
