The fate of the Astros' 2009 coaching staff has been set with only hitting coach Sean Berry retaining his position. Dave Clark, who served as interim manager for the final 13 games after Cecil Cooper was fired, can be on the 2010 coaching staff if he isn't hired as manager.
There's more to it than just that. McTaggart has this to add about Cruz and I'm sure there'll be more info tomorrow.
3 months ago
DyingQuail
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wow
I’m stunned. I mean, everyone else, sure… but Cruz? Wow.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Oct 13, 2009 11:32 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Jose Cruz
Mainly I’m upset and disoriented why Jose Cruz relieved. no reason was given. I’m like Jose. I cannot find words or even kwnw what to say.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 14, 2009 12:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Berry retained?
Nothing against Sean Berry but I wrote last week I could understand if if all the coaches are gone (Except Cruz – As Astros institution).
but Astros retain Sean Berry, I would think at minimum the new manager could pick his own staff. I guess not.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 14, 2009 12:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cruz and Clark and Cooper
I wonder if Astros management thought Cruz showed too much conflict and lack of respect for Cooper and Clark. At the beginning of Cooper’s tenure , Cruz was bench coach, Suddenly he wwsn’t bench coach anymore – no explanation. Then this year Cruz gave Clark dirty looks when they could not coordinate their baserunning strategies.
Ironically, if the conflicts were there, Cruz was in the right from my point of view -but being in the right is still a loser when it’s your boss or future boss you’ve ticked off I guess.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 14, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is unfair to say
but this development makes me want someone other than Dave Clark to get the manager’s position.
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 14, 2009 12:16 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
WTF?
I can’t believe I’m saying this but Maybe I should start being a Rangers fan instead.
by entropic soul on Oct 14, 2009 3:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
-1 for Ed Wade
Any surprise Tal Smith is involved in something this dumb?
by timmy_ on Oct 14, 2009 7:21 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I must be alone....
but I expected Cruz to be let go. Perhaps I am surprised that it was announced this early, instead of after a new manager was picked. If you’re bringing in a new manager, he should pick his own staff. And it’s not like Cruz did anything to distinguish himself as a coach. He was loyal to the organization and the organization ls loyal enough to him to offer him a new position which could even be viewed as an upward path. I don’t think that Cruz helped himself, however, with his “I just work here” media comments about Cooper’s strategy decisions. By saying he was “unlucky” to work on this particular coaching staff, Cruz may be blaming Cooper in a backhanded way.
I didn’t read that to say that Clark would be on the new coaching staff, but that he could be on the new coaching staff. It would be an awkward position to fire Clark as coach at the same time that he is interviewed for the manager position. I’m not sure why Berry was retained. My first reaction—and it could be wrong—is that he is getting some sympathy as a person who is recovering from serious cancer. Or perhaps the Astros just felt that he was a good hitting coach (there is some anecdotal evidence for that from the players).
I have nothing against Jose Cruz—-he was a great Astros’ player—but I think it’s the right thing to completely change out the coaching staff.
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 8:14 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Good point
The comments are very likely to of done him in, even though he may not of liked Cooper Drayton and upper management selected Cooper. Comments made against Cooper, by Cruz could of been viewed as negativity towards upper management, Ed Wade could just be deciding to go in another direction and get his guy on the coaching staff.
Footer had an interesting take about the ins and outs of being a reporter on her blog. In this new age of 24-hour information instead of trying to keep their coaching staff decisions, the managerial candidates (6 names had already been leaked) secret, and having to field calls all day in regards to information leaked, they went ahead and released the information. Which could explain why we’re seeing this information now and not after the hiring process.
by timmy_ on Oct 14, 2009 9:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The question is, how much of our bad hitters’ crappy OBP, over-aggressiveness, and poor plate discipline was due to Berry, and how much was due to Cooper, and how much is just who the hitters are. I know the last two are some part of it, but I’m not at all comfortable with keeping any part of the equation in play. Most of our hitters need to drastically change how they approach each plate appearance and try harder to have good at bats.
by OremLK on Oct 14, 2009 9:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have said, I’m not comfortable with keeping any part of the equation in play that we don’t have to.
by OremLK on Oct 14, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
that was pretty much my expectation, too. What surprised me is that:
- Clark and Berri are guaranteed spots
- They didn’t wait until the new manager is hired.
It just feels weird.
Besides, it’s freaking Cheo.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Oct 14, 2009 10:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s going to be weird not seeing Cruz at first, I don’t know how much weight you actually put in to a first base coach, it was nice seeing Cruz at first base because he is apart of the Astros history. While the organization makes it’s fair share of dumb moves in personnel decisions, I like the fact that they show loyalty and respect to those who have come through the organization, it’s not something you see a whole lot of in today’s society and it’s refreshing to see. Which is why I’m a bit disappointed Cruz will not be returning as first base coach.
by timmy_ on Oct 14, 2009 10:35 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well…what else can they do with Clark? You can’t really say, “you’re not good enough to be a coach” but “you are good enough to be interviewed as manager.” I didn’t read this to mean that Clark is guaranteed a coaching position, but could be kept as coach (presumably based on the new manager). I don’t know about Berry. I think it’s possible that they were afraid he would be picked up immediately by another team.
Richard Justice’s take is interesting. He is a little too tough on Cruz (saying he is the first guy to leave the clubhouse after a game). But his points make some sense:
1. Cruz doesn’t add anything important to the coaching staff.
2. The Astros coaching staff was bad overall, and this is shown by things like poor positioning in both the infield and outfield. How much was Cooper’s fault and how much the coaches’ fault? who knows.
3. The Astros think that Clark and Berry were the best coaches, so they kept them and got rid of the rest.
4. While Cruz may not hurt the team as first base coach, suppose the new manager has a first base coach in mind who can actually bring something of value, like knowledge on how to improve positioning, etc.Why wouldn’t you want someone like that instead of Cruz?
5. Why do people believe that Cruz is guaranteed a coaching job for life?
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 10:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
4. While Cruz may not hurt the team as first base coach, suppose the new manager has a first base coach in mind who can actually bring something of value, like knowledge on how to improve positioning, etc.Why wouldn’t you want someone like that instead of Cruz?
Of course that would be desirable, but that seems like a decision that would be made by the new manager. Maybe he will have no particular person in mind for the 1b Coach, and would be fine with Cruz.
5. Why do people believe that Cruz is guaranteed a coaching job for life?
I think it mostly came down to the fact that he seemed like he was doing his job fairly well (sure, the Astros running game sucked, but that probably had more to do with Coop being stupid; fielder positions seemed fine, anyways), and he’s pretty much an institution.
Your friendly neighborhood Dream Shake mod.
by Only_A_Lad on Oct 14, 2009 12:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was doing a good job? really? I have always felt that Cruz was mediocre to bad as a 1st base coach. Now, it probably doesn’t hurt that much, since 1st base coach duties aren’t as critical as, say, third base coach. The mess ups between Clark and Cruz this year were embarrassing, and reflect badly on both coaches, because they weren’t on the same page, and repeated the same problems later (which meant they didn’t try to fix an obvious communications problem). I think the Astros need to load up on as many good coaches as possible…and I wouldn’t want to put the burden on a new manager to fire a popular long time coach.
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 8:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sean Berry
Spared by mercy. Seems like everyone is forgetting about his cancer. Seems to me that even though the hitting under him hasn’t been that great, he’s getting a pass because of the cancer.
by Astrofan on Oct 14, 2009 11:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Possibility I wouldn’t be surprised if he is continuing cancer treatments at this point. I didn’t forget this point, by the way; I mentioned it in a post above.
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't disagree
that his medical situation was part of it. I have to believe that the breakout of Michael Bourn, and the resurgence of Hunter Pence, and Miguel Tejada played a bigger part in keeping Sean Berry around. If Micheal Bourn continued to struggle and Hunter Pence and Miguel Tejada played slightly below what they did this year, coupled with the percieved view that Lance Berkman had a down year, he may of not been retained.
Aaron Boone is coming back from heart surgery and I doubt that if he said he wanted to still play he would have a guaranteed spot on the 25 man roster.
by timmy_ on Oct 14, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there an over/under going on how long until JdJO uses Cruz’s firing as additional evidence of the Astros’ front office being racist? Because if his insufferable rant of a blog post on Cheo is any indication, it’s probably not too far off.
The quality of JdJO’s blogs has lately gone from bad to bad + annoying + wrong-headed.
by AstroAndy on Oct 14, 2009 12:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
They've always been
bad to bad + annoying + wrong-headed
Astros fan for life
by Joe in Birmingham on Oct 14, 2009 6:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too often JJO’s blogs devolve into incoherency. This one was an example…for instance, bringing up the alleged drug problem in the Astros organization in the context of the Cruz reassignment. What a non-sequitor…not to mention that JJO is horrible reporter to allege a “drug problem” in the Astros’ minor leagues based on virtually no evidence.
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 8:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
While all this is going on
and we’ve guaranteed a coaching spot to Sean Berry, Rangers hitting coach Rudy Jaramillo turned down a contract offer and is looking for work now. I would have loved to have him on board.
by Astrofan on Oct 14, 2009 2:04 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
There’s no reason we can’t have more than one hitting coach, right? Especially if one of them is considered one of the best in the business? I hope that whoever the next manager is insists on finding a place for Rudy.
by AstroAndy on Oct 14, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All they said is that Berry can come back as a coach…he doesn’t have to be the hitting coach. I would hope that the Astros consider a return of Jaramillo. However, he may be too expensive for Drayton’s tightly closed wallet.
by clack on Oct 14, 2009 8:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
St. Louis
|
91 | 71 | .561 | 0 | Lost 6 |
|
Chicago
|
83 | 78 | .515 | 7.5 | Lost 1 |
|
Milwaukee
|
80 | 82 | .493 | 11 | Won 3 |
|
Cincinnati
|
78 | 84 | .481 | 13 | Won 2 |
|
Houston
|
74 | 88 | .456 | 17 | Lost 3 |
|
Pittsburgh
|
62 | 99 | .385 | 28.5 | Lost 2 |
(updated 2.10.2010 at 5:43 AM CST)
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