The Crawfish Boxes: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
Around SBN: Ravens Comment on McNair's Death


Cecil Cooper one of the worst with the IBB in 2008

Not a definitive account, but proof positive enough for me, that Cecil isn't a very good manager.

Link 6 months ago Lovelance_tiny DyingQuail Comment 3 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I don't find this convincing in terms of whether Cooper is a good or bad

manager. I think it is impossible to know anything of value unless you consider the relative offensive capabilities of the batters, and the author of the article says:

To look at hitters’ wOBAs would require a whole lot more work that I don’t have time for.

I would add that there are many other situational factors which might go into determining whether the decision was good or bad, such as: RH/LH matchups, whether batters are hot or slumping at the time; the batter’s history against the pitcher; the bench status for both teams; the bullpen status for both teams; and the score/inning. For instance, we know that Cooper is very aware of the LH/RH match up issue, and I would bet that a lot of his IBB involve relievers who have a poor handedness split and hitters with distinct splits. As an example, there were many critical situations late in the season where Cooper made (IMO) good judgements to IBB a good LHB in order to keep LaTroy Hawkins in the game.

I would also point out that managers get second guessed much more by the media and general fandom for failing to walk batters than they do for giving intentional passes. Early in the season, Chronicle writers blasted Cooper for failing to walk Pujols and Derek Lee in situations where they won the game (Tejada also second guessed Cooper for failing to walk Lee in that Cubs game). I’m sure that can subtly affect managers’ judgements. I don’t know how many times i have argued with Astros fans who post comments that “Garner and Cooper are idiots because the Astros should walk Pujols every time he comes to the plate.”

Finally, the other skepticism is that the article lists two managers as the worst on IBB who are generally considered very good strategists (Cox and Leyland) and another (Manuel) who took his team to the WS championship….all three supposedly worse managers than Cooper.

by clack on Jan 7, 2009 11:23 AM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I’m glad you took the time to type that all up. I had the same general thoughts, but am not as articulate and your quick list of factors is longer than I would have come up with. The first thing that popped out to me was no mention of pitching match-ups. As to the list of managers, Gardenhire and Torre are high as well.

The big mistake is creating a category “definitely bad.” How about here as an attempt at judging?

by ol Pete on Jan 7, 2009 2:32 PM CST to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My intial iobservatin was that

teh three worst mangers were two men who took many a team to the the post season and one who won it all this year in Bobby Cox, Jim Leyland, and Charlie Manuel whereas the three “Best Managers” were Trey Hillman, John Russell, and
John Gibbons.

What I’d like to see are comparable statistics for how runs scored when the actual batters intentionally walked did when they batted. For example, what happens when Albert Pujols bats in the ninth inning with runners on second and third with two outs in a one run game versus whar thappens when he is walked in that situation.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jan 7, 2009 4:45 PM CST reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the Crawfishboxes, the SBNation blog for the Houston Astros.
Start posting about the Astros »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recent FanPosts

Astros_small
time for a change
Oingo_boingo-only_a_lad_small
Hunter Pence, All-Star (For Reals!)
Small
Jay Austin
Baseball_-_roy_oswalt_small
Astros Play Day Game Against Padres
Astroandyavatar_small
International Free Agent Signings
Houston_texans_small
Am I the only one...
Small
Special thanks goes to
Astroandyavatar_small
Astros Uniforms - Vote your favorite
Johns_small
Lance Berkman
Astroandyavatar_small
Roy Oswalt, Russ Ortiz, and FIP

Post_icon New FanPost All FanPosts Carrot-mini

THE CRAWFISH BOXES GETS SOCIAL

Picture_88_medium The Crawfish Boxes on Facebook

Picture_89_medium The Crawfish Boxes on Twitter

Current Series

3 game series vs Pirates @ Minute Maid Park

Pittsburgh Pirates
@ Houston Astros

Monday, Jul 6, 2009, 7:05 PM CDT
Minute Maid Park

Partly cloudy,rain. Game time temperature around 90.

Complete Coverage >

Tue 07/07 7:05 PM CDT
Wed 07/08 1:05 PM CDT

NL Central Standings

W L PCT GB STRK
St. Louis 45 39 .535 0 Won 1
Milwaukee 43 39 .524 1 Lost 1
Chicago 40 39 .506 2.5 Won 1
Cincinnati 40 40 .500 3 Lost 1
Houston 39 41 .487 4 Won 1
Pittsburgh 37 45 .451 7 Lost 2

(updated 7.6.2009 at 11:31 AM CDT)


Humble Blog Managers

Urbanshocker_small HighLeveragePerformer

Lovelance_small DyingQuail

Editors

Nsapcs13_large_small clack

Fbod6_small farm_stros

Official Partner of Yahoo! Sports