Astros Lose to Pirates 10-7 : Welcome to Last Place
by Stros Bro
on Jul 7, 2008 9:45 PM CDT
What a frustrating game as an Astros fan... I just heard on the TV that the Astros club house is still closed to media which probably means that somebody is getting a talking to... maybe it's Cooper... In my opinion the opinion of others(including at least one FSN announcer), Cooper didn't manage this game to win. The FSN announcer(I can't remember his name, but he's new to me) stated that "Cecil Cooper managed the game to save the bullpen, not to win the game" which is a very bad thing when your goal is to WIN THE GAME!!!
Yes I completely understand that the bullpen was overused last night in the 17 inning loss to the Braves... but there was no reason to just give this game away. Obviously Hernandez was over matched tonight against the Pirates and was getting shelled every inning he went out. He had more 4 run innings than he did 0 run innings if that means anything to you. In 4 innings, Hernandez gave up 10 earned runs... 10!!!! You would think after the 4 run 1st and 2 run 2nd that you would go to the bullpen... there's a reason you called up Chad Paronto before the game. Wright threw 30 pitches last night and Borkowski through 27 the night before, but neither had thrown the game before... so they probably could have went out and thrown an inning. Paronto hadn't pitched since July 3rd so you knew he was available for multiple innings. I just think the game was poorly managed and I believe that the end result was a direct result of the way the game was managed.
Maybe I'm wrong and maybe that's why I write about the Astros and don't manage them... call me ignorant.
Don't forget to vote for Carlos Lee!
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I feel for Cooper
I don’t think he’s bad, but I do realize he’s new at this and he’s going to make mistakes. Not only is he a rookie, but he’s been given a bad team and expected to win.
Take tonight’s game for example. Hernandez started and gave up 6 runs in the first two innings. 4 in the first and 2 in the second. That might have been your que to pull him. The Pirates starter was, in fact, pulled after giving up six runs. Poronto pitched 4 innings today, so if Coop pulled Hernandez after 1.2 innings we can say Poronto might have pitched at least until 5.2. That leaves 3.1 innings to be pitched by the rest of the bullpen (assuming we win.) That is, 3.1 innings of SCORELESS ball. So he didn’t and we lost (although had the bullpen given up even one run, we would have lost anyway, but no one knew that at the time.) So he gets blamed for not using the bullpen effectively and we lose.
On the other hand, had he used the bullpen and we’d lost (which we had a good shot of doing anyway, then everyone would be complaining about how overused the bullpen is. Which they are. And people complain about it. But it’s not because Coop is managing the bullpen poorly, it’s because half of the bullpen blows donkey balls and the starters can’t go more than 5 innings.
That leaves 3 or 4 innings for the bullpen to pitch every night. And if the game is close, then you want to use the good ones. Like Valverde, Geary, Brocail, Wright and Byrdak. They get used to much then they start sucking too and we lose. Then people cry “overuse” and Coop has to use people like Villareal in close games because Geary is worn out and we lose.
So it’s kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don’t kind of situation for him. And don’t even get me started on how he’s gotten stuck with 3 young “everyday” players, based mostly on how good management thinks they could be. (But they aren’t.. at least not yet.) And.. expected to win with them.
by entropic soul on Jul 8, 2008 1:10 AM CDT 0 recs
Cooper is partly to blame
But he is certainly not the only – or most glaring – reason that the Astros are losing.
He is a rookie but does not seem to be learning from his mistakes. Cooper has not shown an apptitude for making adjustments on the fly or from game to game. Maybe if he did we could be in fifth place. Which is of course something to envy only if you are the Astros right now.
Either way Coop gets this year as a mulligan and we’ll see what he can do after this.
Drayton and Ed Wade should be fired now though.
My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.
by TBurford on Jul 8, 2008 8:54 AM CDT 0 recs
I don't know if Cooper
gets a mulligan for this year.. I think he gets to finish the season as the Astros manager, but I don’t know if he will be here next season.
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 11:30 AM CDT
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You don't think so Stros?
I figured Drayton would bring back Cooper regardless. If nothing else because he wil always follow the league/Old Boys Club line.
I am ok if the go with someone else though. I was a Tony Pena fan when they hired Jimy Williams. I don’t know if Pena would have been better than Williams but we was not going to be worse.
My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.
by TBurford on
Jul 8, 2008 3:52 PM CDT
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I'm not going to say that
it would surprise me if Cooper is back next season… but Drayton is one to take fans reactions to heart… and a lot of fans are calling for Coopers head(even I am guilty of that from time to time… to time… ) so who knows. If the Astros finish last in NL central then someone is going to pay for it… and I don’t see that person being Wade or Drayton…
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 3:55 PM CDT
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Starts at the top
Cecil Cooper is not a good manager. I’m just gonna throw that out there. Then again, there are very few good managers in baseball. Cooper has been terrible at choosing when the team should attempt steals, how the bullpen should be managed, and how to keep everyone in that clubhouse on the same page. He filled out his staff with a pitching coach that nobody relates to, and in doing so, has alienated the one legitimate starter the team has. I understand it’s his first year, but in reality, he’s finishing his first year. This is a game that he’s been heavily involved in for 40-45 years. It took him this long to figure out that Ty Wigginton should be given more AB’s, when anyone with a stat sheet could see that. (Note: I myself have seen blogs that have talked about this days before Coop made the move. I figure it’s not appropriate to pimp other people’s blogs on Crawfish Boxes, but there is a blog out there that said Ty should be given wayyy more AB’s) Sure, Drayton has no clue how to build a club, and has hamstrung Ed Wade in his attempts to rebuild. That doesn’t mean that Cooper gets to pass the buck on his end of the bargain.
by HighLeveragePerformer on Jul 8, 2008 3:46 PM CDT 0 recs
I'm assuming
your 1 legitimate starter is Roy Oswalt… but you forget Wandy Rodriguez.
How has Drayton hamstrung Wade? Do you think he should have a higher payroll? Wade traded away any prospects we had in the off season, so there isn’t much Drayton can do about that… The Astros have nothing any other team wants in terms of trade bait unless they are going to start getting rid of their good major league talent(Pence, Tejada, Lee etc) If you think the Astros should have a higher payroll… then well, yea that’s probably true. But you can’t expect Drayton to spend 150 million a year on payroll.. Also, allowing Wade to spend more money does nothing for the Astros during the season… gotta wait for the off season before you can do that.
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 4:15 PM CDT
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Last place
A month ago the Astros were red hot and streaking. Now they’re in the cellar. What the hell happened?
It’s the manager’s job to keep the team playing at its best, to get the most out of his players. Looking at results, Cooper is a miserable failure and ought to be run out of town. Now.
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes. If they get mad, you're a mile away AND you have their shoes.
by Caradoc on Jul 8, 2008 3:50 PM CDT 0 recs
When your pitching
isn’t good, your offense has to be.
The Astros offense is 10th in runs scored, and the pitching is 12th in ERA in the National League… pretty much explains why the Astros are tied for 11th in the league in wins.
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 4:04 PM CDT
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The problem is not primarily Cooper... it's...
We have three everyday starters who have been (generally speaking) terrible all year. And those are three people who have been given to Cooper with the idea that they all need to play.
Michael Bourn is the WORST offensive center fielder in MLB (among qualifiers, about 20 CF’ers.)
J.R. Towles was so bad he was sent down to AAA to be replaced by Brad “GIDP” Ausmus.
And Hunter Pence ranks below 20th in almost every offensive catagory among 25 RF’ers.
That is four spots in the order (including pitcher) who all are making too many outs and killing rallies. Let’s take a look at our primary players:
Bourn is a terrible batter. He almost always a makes an out.
Matsui/Loretta (2nd base) are decently productive. Fairly good for singles and getting on base. Always work the count. Matsui can steal and is fast.
Berkman is the best hitter in the game this year.
Lee excellent hitter as well. Gets a lot of RBIs and home runs.
Tejada is a good hitter. Great hitter for a shortstop. 5th in OPS among all qualifying shortstops, even after going through a slump.
Pence is terrible. Too many first pitch outs. Has good streaks, but they are rare. Mostly grounds out.
Wigginton is a good hitter. Nothing great, but can get on base and hit a home run too.
Towles/Ausmus. Terrible. Worse than Bourn. Almost always an out.
Pitcher: Outs and the occasional sac bunt.
That’s what you have.. a lot of guys who make a lot of outs who are “supposed” to play every day.
The best solution I can think of (besides taking these guys out of the line up) is similar to what Stros Bro suggested the other day. Batting all of our good hitters next to each other so we increase the likelihood of consecutive hits and walks. Matsui/Loretta, Berkman, Lee, Tejada and Wiggy should all be next to each other. Possibly swap Wiggy and Tejada when Tejada is slumping or batting Wiggy first. Putting Pence in between any of them is going to make it harder for the team to score. Starting off with Bourn is going to make it harder for them to score in the first inning.
But in the end, is this team going to score much when we have 4 automatic outs in a row? Is Berkman ever going to bat with a runner on and no outs? If any player goes into a slump (like Tejada did recently) it creates a hole and ruins the whole plan.. then we score 1 or 2 runs constantly.
by entropic soul on
Jul 8, 2008 4:49 PM CDT
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We could sign Barry Bonds
Move him to right field and Pence to center and have the worst outfield defense in the history of baseball… It would probably improve our offense(depending on what Barry has been doing in the off season) and it would completely ruin any good guy credibility that Drayton and the Astros have…
I’m not real sure what the fans would think of it… I’m guessing most Houston fans hate Barry Bonds like I do and wouldn’t like it..
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 4:59 PM CDT
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I am under the impression that Cooper asked for most of the players...
whom Wade acquired. (Granted, perhaps, Cooper’s comments in the off-season which lead me to believe that, were partly for public relations purposes.) I have no doubt that Cooper has been Bourn’s No. 1 fan. From the beginning, he has expressed pride that he has a true lead off hitter (at least in Cooper’s mind) and indicated that he would stick with Bourn through thick and thin. It is Cooper’s decision, and not Wade’s, to keep Bourn in the lead off spot, even when he is around the Mendoza Line. Cooper claimed that he worked closely with Wade in making decisions on the off-season moves.
by clack on
Jul 8, 2008 5:19 PM CDT
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Then they should both be to blame
if Bourn doesn’t become a good player. And Cooper should have extra blame put on him if Bourn stays a bad player and stays in the 1 hole.
Go 'Stros!
by Stros Bro on
Jul 8, 2008 5:32 PM CDT
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NL Central Standings
| W | L | PCT | GB | STRK | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Chicago
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85 | 55 | .607 | 0 | Lost 5 |
| Milwaukee
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80 | 60 | .571 | 5 | Lost 4 |
| St. Louis
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75 | 65 | .535 | 10 | Lost 1 |
| Houston
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74 | 66 | .528 | 11 | Won 8 |
| Cincinnati
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62 | 78 | .442 | 23 | Won 1 |
| Pittsburgh
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59 | 80 | .424 | 25.5 | Lost 1 |
(updated 9.5.2008 at 9:43 AM CDT)
