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Chacon suspended indefinitely

And that's all I know... I think that's all that's been said, actually...

I assume it has to do with his attitude and reaction to demotion to the bullpen... Come on Shawn, seriously. Something else must have happened/been said that we don't know about. Thoughts?

I can't find any other information on the net about this; I'm going by what Brownie just said in the game. Anyone know anything else/have any story links?

 

From Chron.com, here

According Chacon, he was in the lunch room after batting practice when Cooper asked him to join him in his office.

“And I said, 'what do you want to speak to me about?'” Chacon said. “He said, ‘we just want to talk to you.’ I said, ‘anything you can say you can say to me right here. I don’t want to go to the office. He looked at me and I said there’s nothing for me to say to you guys.’ And I don’t think whatever they had to say to me they were going to make me happy. I didn’t want to get in a closed-room conversation. I just wanted to be left alone.

“I sat down to eat and Ed Wade came to me and very sternly said, ‘you need to come with me to the office.’ I said ‘for what?’ I said 'I don’t want to go to the office with you and Cooper.’ And I said ‘You can tell me whatever you got to tell me right here.’ He’s like, ‘oh, you want me to tell you right here?' And I said, ‘yeah.’ I’m not yelling. I’m calm.”

It deteriorated quickly afterward, according to Chacon.

“He started yelling and cussing," Chacon said of Wade. "I’m sitting there and I said to him very calmly, ‘Ed, you need to stop yelling me. Then I stood up and said 'you better stop yelling at me.' I stood up. He continued and was basically yelling and stuff and was like, ‘You need to (expletive) look in the mirror.’ So at that point I lost my cool and I grabbed him by the neck and threw him to the ground. I jumped on top of him because at that point I wanted to beat his (butt). Words were exchanged.”

 

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but..

why is it just Chacon being suspended – as it states “Chacon was one of the persons involved”...

by exit53 on Jun 25, 2008 7:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Trade

Apparantly he has demanded a trade, and that’s why he’s been suspended indefinitely.

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080625&content_id=3002084&vkey=news_hou&fext=.jsp&c_id=hou

by PSUhorn on Jun 25, 2008 7:51 PM CDT   0 recs

interesting

i mean, i see his point. he signed with us because we told him we’d give him a chance to be a starter… but this reaction is just ridiculous. good riddance, i say, unfortunately.

by exit53 on Jun 25, 2008 7:58 PM CDT   0 recs

lots of stuff on the postgame but no new news other than the chron story

everyone keeps saying that if true, this is the end of chacon’s career. I really doubt that, but we’ll see.

by lnewcomer on Jun 25, 2008 10:13 PM CDT   0 recs

I dunno

Probably the end of this year at least…

If what happened is true and Wade wants to, he could probably file assault charges

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jun 25, 2008 10:40 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Think Bonds got blackballed...

this is the end for Chacon, whether its true or not. All Wade has to do is make a few phone calls.

Insane. This is just crazy.

Yes, I am a nerd.

by TexSkins on Jun 25, 2008 10:51 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Chacon is done

Nobody will come near him now.

My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.

by TBurford on Jun 26, 2008 2:31 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

you can tell

he knows it by some of the comments in the chronicle article, especially at the end when he says he wish the whole thing had never happened and they would have just left him alone. he knows he just F’d his career right in the A.

by littlevisigoth on Jun 26, 2008 2:36 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

The Chron updated the story linked above w/ comments from McLane
Astros owner Drayton McLane strongly supports Wade, and he told his players as much in a meeting shortly before they began their 3-2 loss to the Rangers.

“We can’t have anarchy,” McLane said. “You can’t have rebellion. If he disagreed with what Cecil wanted him to do, he should have had the courage to sit down and talk to him. He wouldn’t come in Cecil’s office.”

McLane was adamant that Chacon will never return to the Astros.

“Absolutely not,” McLane said. “If you shoved a policeman down or any other public servant, can you imagine shoving a principal in a school? It was in full view of several players. Players pulled Chacon and restrained him. There’s absolutely no way. You can’t defy authority. Even if he disagreed with what they wanted him to do, he should have had the courage to sit down and talk to him.”

by lnewcomer on Jun 25, 2008 11:39 PM CDT   0 recs

I agree.

We’d all be fired for pulling that shit on our bosses. He should be too.

by entropic soul on Jun 26, 2008 12:03 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

It would be interesting to know what the effect of this event will be on the clubhouse.

The fact that McLane is addressing the team about “anarchy” and “rebellion” makes you wonder if the problems went beyond Chacon. I wonder if Cooper’s credibility is affected because he had to get Wade to handle the situation when Chacon wouldn’t respond to Cooper’s request: Are some players sympathetic to Chacon?

by clack on Jun 26, 2008 12:05 AM CDT   0 recs

I was kind of thinking the same thing

but then again, Chacon didn’t exactly respond to Wade either.

I doubt the players are sympathetic to Chacon… I mean they may feel bad for him that he got demoted, but the whole “no I will not go into your office” episode just comes off as childish and immature

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jun 26, 2008 8:27 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Something I didn't know....

is that Wade has a “legendary” temper. This is the lead paragraph of an article in the Philadelphia Inquirer about a “day in the life of Ed Wade” (which was written after he was fired):

Ed Wade screamed and cursed for several minutes, then picked up a chair in Charlie Manuel’s office and whipped it across the room.
BAM!
The chair smashed into a wall halfway between the ceiling and the floor. Two legs and chunks of wood littered the area.

Manuel watched the scene and kind of nodded his head as if to say, “OK, now what?”
This fit being thrown by a grown man was aimed toward to the scribe sitting across from Manuel’s desk. I quietly watched in stunned amazement when the Phillies’ since-ousted general manager showed off a hot temper that some team insiders suggest is legendary.

I got the link in post #101 of this thread about the Chacon incident at BBTF:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/houston_chronicle_astros_suspend_chacon_after_altercation_with_gm_wade/

That post also links another Philly article about Wade cursing out a sports writer in front of a dozen or so young school children at the ball park.

Chacon and Wade may have been real bad combination at that point in time.

by clack on Jun 26, 2008 9:08 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Nice Find!
Chacon and Wade may have been real bad combination at that point in time.

I think you got that one right… if Wade’s temper is really that bad, then it doesn’t really matter how good of a GM he is… he could put a strain on the clubhouse.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jun 26, 2008 9:38 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow... just, wow

hadn’t heard about this until this morning (watched most of the game without sound, so i missed any reports during last night’s broadcast).

it’s unfortunate, because i didn’t think Chacon’s days as a starter were necessarily over and figured he’d still be a significant contributor to the club. i can’t imagine we’d get anything for him and it’s clear he’s never going to pitch for the Astros again.

sounds to me like there must have been some build up or prior rift between Chacon and Cooper and/or Wade. it’s unfortunate to hear about Wade’s “legendary” temper. it’s just frustrating to see when grown men can’t handle situations calmly and civilly and have to resort to verbal tirades or violence. there’s just no way this whole situation doesn’t damage the club, and even if Chacon and his immaturity are 90% to blame, i can’t imagine there won’t be any lingering feelings about Cooper and Wade and if this situation could have been avoided.

man, this whole thing just sucks… and we’re totally about to lose the silver boot, too (unless we win by 11 points tonight). what a crummy way to start a Thursday.

by littlevisigoth on Jun 26, 2008 9:35 AM CDT   0 recs

Hard to pick sides in this one

I mean, Chacon clearly lost control and there’s no defending his violent actions. But if Wade behaved as reported, he’s a douchebag. A lot of major league players have major league egos – that’s a big part of what gets them to that level. You can wish that all players were as selfless and humble as, say, Cecil Cooper was in his day, but wishing doesn’t make it so. That’s not today’s game, by and large. Chacon’s ego is obviously a lot more consistent than his on-field performance. And I think it’s just the nature of a GM’s job that you have to be sensitive to that. It’s part of managing your human assets. And calling a guy out in front of his teammates just ain’t smart.

Hi, my name is Rich and I'm an Astroholic.

by Austin Astroholic on Jun 26, 2008 10:14 AM CDT   0 recs

we've only got one side of the story

so it’s hard to know how much Wade is really at fault. he obviously tried to handle it behind closed doors and Chacon refused. trying to imagine how the scenario played out, i’m not sure what the correct move for Wade was. Chacon calls out his boss through the media and demands a trade without talking to him. Wade’s got to respond at this point. not having the opportunity to do it behind closed doors and not in front of all the guy’s teammates puts him in a precarious position and probably unnerves the crap out of him, cause he’s not getting the respect he should as the general manager of the club. who knows what Chacon’s tipping point was? who knows how “calm” he really was sitting there as Wade said his piece? who knows how much back and forth there was before it went to blows?

the more i think about it, the more i think Chacon is the bad guy in this one, but that’s not to say Wade isn’t to fault for allowing the situation to play out the way it did, and it’ll be interesting to see how much damage control is done to protect the image of the club and publicly salvage some respect in the clubhouse.

man, this whole thing just sucks and every loss that follows will just fuel the speculation of what’s going on in the clubhouse. as if we Astros fans weren’t suffering enough right now.

by littlevisigoth on Jun 26, 2008 2:34 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I think you can separate the issue of blame for Wade and Chacon.

Chacon obviously crossed a line he shouldn’t cross when he laid hands on the GM. And he had to know that publicly saying he wanted to be traded would make Wade mad. So, there is plenty of blame for Chacon. My initial reaction is that Chacon may have been mentally unstable, but on reflection, I think it is also possible he just “saw red,” as they say. However, the blame for Chacon doesn’t absolve Wade of blame in this episode too. Wade just handled this in a pitiful, terrible matter, which is not befitting a competent manager of people. Wade was angry and had to get out what he wanted to say to Chacon, even if Chacon refused to come to the office to hear it. Cursing and yelling at employees is a firing offense in many organizations, and it should not be tolerated even for the GM. The outcome is that he escalated a tense situation. The better course is to defuse the situation. Calmly let Chacon know the consequences he faces for insubordination, isolate him, and delay the confrontations until the players are on the field. At that point take what actions you need to take (suspension, etc.), and call security if necessary. Handling this the way that he did, Wade may have seriously damaged his credibility in the clubhouse and endangered the outcome of the season.

by clack on Jun 26, 2008 3:54 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, there should be consequences for Wade...

...especially since I have gotten up on my high horse and declared consequences for Chacon, no excuses (which he has gotten). I am surprised that they haven’t announced even a closed door meeting with Wade or some higher up review meeting, though this is all happening quickly and perhaps that side will not be so public. I hope the good guys return soon (or, I hope the games get so interesting that this all evaporates!).

by Joh on Jun 26, 2008 9:02 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

though....

I finally read his statement from earlier this evening, and perhaps, quite possibly, for reals, we are not aware of the full story and I personally will have more faith in the organization to handle the situation in full (sorry for the multi postings…)

by Joh on Jun 26, 2008 9:06 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

uhhh

now Ponson doesnt look so bad afterall.

trade chacon for prospect (if anyone actually wants the dude now- probably just the yankees lol)
i honestly think ed wade should be fired for this.

el caballo for el presidente

by tideturns on Jun 26, 2008 11:11 AM CDT   0 recs

wade and cooper

I think Wade, and ultimately Cooper, needs to go. Seriously. After reading so many reports about Wade’s history and the Astros losing leadership in the clubhouse, etc… this is all just so ridiculous. Everyone should read that Ken Rosenthal article Austin Astroholic posted just above this comment.

by exit53 on Jun 26, 2008 12:27 PM CDT   0 recs

Astros release Chacon

Looks like they will not pay him for the rest of the year based on a contract term.

Astros fan for life

by Joe in Birmingham on Jun 26, 2008 4:58 PM CDT   0 recs

at least they'll try that

I’m sure the player’s association will have something to say about it.

so we won’t get anything for chacon now.

by lnewcomer on Jun 26, 2008 5:14 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

too bad...

...he couldn’t keep his hands to himself – in retrospect, any trade would be looking good now. Hopefully teachers and parents will be able to use this story to illustrate consequences. Most (perhaps, all?) area schools have no tolerence policies for fighting and its actually refreshing to see the organization act so quickly and with no hesitation. (sorry, I had to find the silver lining).

by Joh on Jun 26, 2008 5:14 PM CDT   0 recs

Since no one else has remotely taken this tone...

I figure, hey, what the hell? How can I possibly fault the guy for doing what I personally would LOVE to do? It takes a really special talent to undo the outstandingly mediocrity of the previous administration, but damnit Edward Wade, Esq., I BELIEVE.

by WorstFan on Jun 26, 2008 6:07 PM CDT   0 recs

Just because no one else has taken your tone

don’t assume that many of us weren’t thinking precisely the same thing.

You just had the courage to put it in print.

It takes more than pitching to win a pennant, but not much!

by bwhite2323 on Jun 26, 2008 6:37 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

really?

Wanting to punch someone you will probably never met and posting that thought an a blog, anonymously? Somehow I think there are people doing things right now that are much much more courageous. It is this casual relationship to violence that gets people in situations like Chacon’s. (and, I’m sure you just made an off-hand comment, probably a decent person, but I think you see my larger point.)

by Joh on Jun 26, 2008 6:48 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, lighten up!

What’s the difference between Shawn Chacon and the rest of the Astros?

The rest of the Astros do their choking ON the field!

There’s a million more…...

It takes more than pitching to win a pennant, but not much!

by bwhite2323 on Jun 27, 2008 12:21 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

And I'm upset

that you conclude I’m probably a decent person, just by reading one “anonymous” post!

It takes more than pitching to win a pennant, but not much!

by bwhite2323 on Jun 27, 2008 12:30 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Wade's account of the incident

posted at 6:25 PM this evening:

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080626&content_id=3009145&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

It takes more than pitching to win a pennant, but not much!

by bwhite2323 on Jun 26, 2008 6:46 PM CDT   0 recs

Odd

Wade says…

I told him that he needed to look at himself in the bleeping mirror.

And then he says…
“I did not curse the player, I did not make any derogatory comments towards the player, I didn’t say anything negative towards the player whose personality or makeup or anything of that nature despite what has been reported,” Wade said.

Hmmm…. seems to kind of contradict himself

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jun 26, 2008 9:24 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

i don't think he contradicted himself..

he didn’t call him names or anything like that. If he had called him a piece of #$%# then that would have been different. Cussing to someone and cussing at them are different.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there are men on base. ~Dave Barry

by TimStros on Jun 27, 2008 10:39 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oswalt interview in JJO's blog....

I find it interesting that Oswalt hopes Chacon catches on with another team and says that he shouldn’t be judged by this incident.

by clack on Jun 27, 2008 7:33 AM CDT   0 recs

Link didn't show up...

http://blogs.chron.com/baseballblog/archives/2008/06/dewey_robinsons.html

The text of Roy’s interview is in the last half of Ortiz’s blog.

by clack on Jun 27, 2008 7:35 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

wow

That interview is quite revealing. Oswalt all but calls Coop & Robinson “wrong” and “inexperienced” in their managing decisions.

Some gems:

“Is there a communication problem?” Oswalt said. “I won’t say it’s a communication problem. Sometimes we see different from them and they see it different from us. You still have to play no matter what.”
What will the lingering affect will be?

“I don’t think it will be too much. I think it will be icy for a while. But overall I think we’ll be OK.”

Did the team do the right thing?

“That’s their decision. They don’t pay me to do that. They pay me to pitch.”

I don’t see how Coop can make it to 2009 with a job when the pitching staff is on the brink of mutiny.

by pel on Jun 27, 2008 11:54 AM CDT to parent up   0 recs

Oswalt is good at

getting his jabs in with out openly getting his jabs in… Berkman does this as well, but he hides it less.

Go 'Stros!

by Stros Bro on Jun 27, 2008 4:58 PM CDT to parent up   0 recs

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