Break up the Astros!
by TBurford on Jun 17, 2008 4:07 PM CDT
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PrintNo I am not kidding. They have regressed to the mean and need to do something.
There are quite a few obstacles to overcome to make this work but it can happen and can make the Astros a better team in the long run.
The first things we have to do is get rid of the owner or change his mind set. The Astros have one of the worst owners in professional sports who does not get that fans know what we are looking at – especially those on message boards like this. Do not offer us a line about how the Astros are going to win and then feed us bullshit. We know the difference. We are smart enough to understand that depending on the market and personnel rebuilding may be necessary some times. Tell us that is going to happen and we will still come see the games. That way when the winning starts we will brag that we have been there all along. Drayton does not get this. Up to this point he has stuck with what Billy Wagner said and just tried to compete and not win. All Uncle Drayton wants is fans in the seats. He got lucky early with Hunsicker as the GM. Now he has Drayton Junior as the GM and everybody follows the line given to them by the Old Boys Club led by Bud Selig. Stay in rookie contract slot, open the roof for the WS… What would an owner like Mark Cuban have done if somebody told him to do that? So assuming we can’t get rid of Drayton let’s break out the two by fours and change his way of thinking.
Second we need to find a GM who can figure out that no matter how good your bullpen is if your starters suck then it does you no good. All the Astros did was a hire another member of the Old Boys Club who would tow the line. Drayton Junior needs to go.
Next move is to get rid of Carlos Lee. The reason I say trade Lee are that he has the longest and largest contract. Ok the guy can hit but he is getting older, slower, and fatter and his contract is getting bigger and has four years left after this season. The food bill alone will be worth the trade. Find an AL team who will give up a couple solid prospects and dump El Caballo.
Next…Everyone not named Pence and Towles is available. Yes I mean Berkman, Oswalt, Valverde, and the rest. A few would have to waive their no trade clause but what do you think the Indians would give for Berkman or the Yankees for Oswalt if they would go? Not quite a kings ransom but not far from it either.
OR…Drayton can open up the pocket book big time this off-season and sign Sabathia and a Wolf/Burnett/Penny type and try and buy a winning team.
Of course they could just keep giving us the same bullshit and try not to come in last.
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Whoa
I was sort of with you until you mentioned getting rid of Berkman. Berkman has been basically the best hitter in baseball this year and is playing with a reasonable salary… he’ll be good for years to come… and you only get rid of Roy if you think he is indeed finished.
I also don’t think Towles is an untouchable… but I don’t think we would get much for him.
I don’t think Drayton is a terrible owner.. I do think he may interfere a little too much.. It’s easy to say that he could just open up the pocket book and start signing players… but that’s easier to say on this end… it’s not like Drayton has been cheap as an owner… we’re not exactly the Marlins here.
Go 'Stros!
Trade Lance Berkman
I would do it. He’s 32. He’s on the back end of his prime and he’s not the best at keeping himself in great condition. As much as I enjoy watching the array of hitters on your team you guys really aren’t going anywhere.
Here at my perch far from Houston, it seemed to me like Drayton McLane was sort of a bumbler, but just check out which team I route for and you guys really have nothing to complain about.
Maybe in order to understand mankind, we have to look at the word itself: "Mankind". Basically, it's made up of two separate words—"mank" and "ind". What do these words mean? It's a mystery, and that's why so is mankind.
-Jack Handey
Absolutely not.
We’re not talking about a guy who can’t pull his weight here. He’s good. And as long as he’s good, I keep him. He could be a life long Astro… the next number retired even, if he played 7 or 8 more years. He may not do that, sure. But we don’t know at this point. There is a thing called loyalty too, you know.
by entropic soul on Jun 18, 2008 12:59 AM CDT up reply actions
Justification for trading Berkman
Is that even if he is really good for the next 3 years or so the Astros will not be. The second half of his career will be a mini Ernie Banks saga. Sure Berk will put up 40-100-100 but the Astros will still only be winning 75 games a year. However if there is a quicker way to get the Astros into contention then keep him around. I understand the loyalty part. I have been a fan of the Astros for over 30 years. However the loyalty can be to the player or the team. Maybe trading a player now makes a better team later.
As for Drayton and his ownership capabilites he is basically laughed at by the media and his players. And if keeps lying to the fans about how the Astros are going to contend how are we supposed to take him seriously?
My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.
I predict that the probability of Berkman waiving his no trade clause is close to zero.
Berkman has said he does not want to play for a team outside of Texas. And of course he wants to play in his home town, Houston. That is something important to Berkman. So I don’t think it’s even worth talking about. He has control over the decision, and that is what he bargained for in his contract.
The Astros aren't that far away from being a good team
Add a couple decent starting pitchers and we have a shot at being contenders…
The Astros have had some bad luck this year(specifically with Roy O). If Roy Oswalt is the same pitcher he has been as recently as last year then this season looks different in my opinion. The Astros offense is fine… they have under produced this year, but this offense can and will score runs. The glaring concern is the starting pitching. Fix that and you can make this into a good team.
Go 'Stros!
I continue to believe that Oswalt is an ace pitcher.
So, I would be very reluctant to trade him, because it is likely to turn out as a disaster if he wins the Cy Young for some other team. On another board, someone said that the Astros trading Oswalt would come back to haunt them like when the Red Sox traded Clemens. That is a pretty good analogy. I also think that Oswalt would be very picky about what teams he would play for…which he controls, given the no trade clause.
Having said that, you would have to consider such a trade, if you could get back a young phenom pitcher, like Lincecum, Hughes, or Kershaw, in addition to a couple of other good young players. The chances of getting a package like that, IMO, is pretty low. Teams are holding on to the their young pitching talents.
I agree Clack
On both point – that Berkman would probably not waive his no trade clause and that Oswalt still knows how to pitch. And I am not giving either away unless somebody backs up the Brinks truck or the young talent truck as the case may be.
However I just do not see how the Astros are going to be any good while they are still around. You have two great players but without another any more starting pitching than they have now it won’t do any good if post season play is the objective. The only way the Astros have to solve that problem right now is to dump huge money in free agency. Good luck convincing Drayton to pay for Sabathia and God Bless you if you can get him to do it.
My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.
I like the idea of trying to sign Ben Sheets...
his injury history makes it a gamble, but he is a hell of a talent.
What would you give him?
The guy has always put up great numbers when he is on the field but that is a coin flip.
I am not sure how much I would be willing to spend unless it was incentive laden contract.
Sheets and Oswalt as your 1/2 in a rotation could put up some W’s though.
My friends suggested I see someone about my baseball problem. So I made an appointment but just ended up helping the doctor with his fantasy team.
good question...
I think it depends on the market for starting pitchers next off-season. Teams restrained themselves somewhat last off-season, and market saiaries for starting pitchers (particularly mediocre ones) weren’t as high. However, that can easily change too. I’m thinking that you could offer a nice sized contract ($10-12 million?) for one year, and see how it works out. I think the risk comes into the picture when you talk about multi-year contracts, which I’m sure he would prefer.
Sheets has been injury prone, but the injuries seem to be flukey.
Brewers would sign him in an instant for that contract
I think he is making about 10 million a year now. He’s spent a not insignificant amount of time on the DL, but his injuries haven’t been to his arm or shoulder and he is relatively young. He can probably get a 4-5-6 year deal with Zambrano or Santana numbers or greater. I’d love to be wrong. I’d love for the Brewers to sign him to something like two years at 17 million per year.
You're right
Sheet’s injuries all seem to be really odd fluky injuries, none really long term… it’s just odd his streak of weird injuries.
Go 'Stros!
I do too
And he has a house in the Fairview/Plano area, so Houston would be a lot closer to home than Milwaukee.
75% of the Earth's surface is covered by water. . . the other 25% by Michael Bourn
Yea, but..
they have better sausage? Hell, they have a better team this year(win/loss wise)
Go 'Stros!
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